Storing biobricks/wood fuel bricks question

[MedicineMan4040]

I can get a pallet of RedStone wood bricks for $800, minus 5% for bulk purchase. I'm ok with the price
and the store is only 25 min's away.
BUT no place outside to store it

I can purchase a metal shed....many on Amazon that are sized for the dimensions of the pallet load (minus the pallet).
But humidity can seep into a metal shed and the fuel bricks will absorb it I fear but don't know.

Any thoughts on outside storage?
Seems like the bricks would be a sponge to moisture in the air but we store our covered firewood outside all the time
and each is hardwood but I read that even a tarp over your wood fuel bricks is not good enough.

I googled and southwest Virginia is considered humid continental climate. I don't now what 'continental' means in this context.

 

[EbS-P]

$800 a ton is really over priced. Tractor supply is listing at 5$ a package. 100 packages per ton.

There has to be cheaper alternatives. As for storage. In a shed would be ok. They absolutely can’t get dew rain or snow on them. I would wrap some plastic around them
Too.

Unless it was my only heat source for the rest of the winter. I’d be looking for other options. You have time solar kiln some wood for next winter.

 

[Rickb]

I got a pallet of them a few years back as backup. I paid a lot less then that but mine are stored in my unfinished park of my basement. I dont think I would want to store them outside.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Ric, Ebs, thanks for your thoughts.
I think I'm just going to go with the flow for now and not get the big pallet of wood bricks.
My brother and I cut down a sizeable maple a couple of weeks ago. Hoping it will be cured out
for next winter.
Wood is not the primary heat here so no pressure, other than I like to run the woodstove. At the
other house I heated the whole house for 3 winters with wood....an ancient Avalon wood insert
one one side of the house and the other side has a Vermont Castings Aspen.

Now on the pricing. I did just pay $859 for 320 gallons of propane

 

[EbS-P]

My math says the propane is 50% cheaper on a btu basis than bio bricks. Bricks 8k btus per pound 70% efficient Vs 90k btus per gallon at 80% efficiency.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

EbS I don't know how you did the math but I'm going to take it to heart.
Yeah I put in a Heil dual fuel heat pump for the wife about 3 weeks ago. It replaced
a 33 year old GE that really wasn't putting out much heat at all (completely electric). It
came with this 1975 era house we bought a bit less than 3 months ago. For the two months
prior to the new heat pump our whole house was heated with one propane space heater on
a wall in the finished basement (30K btu). It actually heated the whole house......at least warm
enough to survive. Luckily the Heil was installed the week before we hit 2F and 10F as a high for
almost a week straight. And now this week the wood stove install was complete and we'll have highs
in the 50's all week haha! I'm just blessed to have options....of course I worked for decades to have the
options but you know what I mean.

 

[EbS-P]

EbS I don't know how you did the math but I'm going to take it to heart.
Yeah I put in a Heil dual fuel heat pump for the wife about 3 weeks ago. It replaced
a 33 year old GE that really wasn't putting out much heat at all (completely electric). It
came with this 1975 era house we bought a bit less than 3 months ago. For the two months
prior to the new heat pump our whole house was heated with one propane space heater on
a wall in the finished basement (30K btu). It actually heated the whole house......at least warm
enough to survive. Luckily the Heil was installed the week before we hit 2F and 10F as a high for
almost a week straight. And now this week the wood stove install was complete and we'll have highs
in the 50's all week haha! I'm just blessed to have options....of course I worked for decades to have the
options but you know what I mean.

I like my heatpump woodstove combo. What temp did they set the crossover (heatpump to gas) at? Did they do any cost calculations for you or just set? Post the heatpump model number and your electric rates and we can estimate a crossover temp.

Edit…. I run my heatpump down to 45. It’s just too efficient not to. And it’s 15 years old. And I got lazy this week and just let it run. It doesn’t cost that much. And is probably cheaper than propane down to somewhere 15-25 degrees.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Forgot to say that I can comfortably store 140 of the Gren Heat(Rural King) wood fuel bricks here in
the room where the woodstove is. That's better than none.

 

[blades]

A shed would work just got to build a decent pad for it and cover said pad with heavy plastic before setting up floor frame for shed. humidity - unless your storage is inside the envelope of the home you are at mother natures whim. Most of the big box store have the bricks piled up outside no protection other than factory wrap and shipping wrap. theshep covers all the reall wet problems the plastic under the base blocks moisture from the ground. not much different than a pole barn or garage. due to off gassing of the blocks its not a good idea to have large amount in a confined space with minimal ventilation like the a basement. same goes for pellets.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

I like my heatpump woodstove combo. What temp did they set the crossover (heatpump to gas) at? Did they do any cost calculations for you or just set? Post the heatpump model number and your electric rates and we can estimate a crossover temp.

Edit…. I run my heatpump down to 45. It’s just too efficient not to. And it’s 15 years old. And I got lazy this week and just let it run. It doesn’t cost that much. And is probably cheaper than propane down to somewhere 15-25 degrees.

EbS thanks! OK, I'm researching the exact model number of the Heil. On my invoice it says Heil 15 seer dual fuel 2 ton system...but not the exact model. I've attached my most recent electrical bill and a label on the outside unit of the HVAC. Can't find anything easy on the inside propane furnace unit to snap a pic of. I did just message the company that did the install asking for exact model numbers of inside and outside units.
Now the day they installed it they gave me a quick run down of the sleek modern wifi enabled thermostat control panel....most all of which I forgot AND they asked me at what temp to set it so it changes from electric to propand and vice versa.
I selected 40F. Why? Well I know the propane burner part has a long long lifespan and longer warranty than the compressor outside. So I figured I'd burn propane 'earlier' as the temps drop.
Also, when the unit is using propane it just feels warmer to me; like a woodstove always feels warmer to me than any all electric HVAC.

You might also find this interesting. The temps in the house right now as I type are:
75F here in the basement where I'm sitting t the computer
74F in the attic knee wall (cape code style 3rd floor)
71F in the wifes office on the other side of the knee wall on 3rd floor
69F in the living room (second floor in the house)

So not a bad spread of temperatures for a single HVAC serving 3 floors.
Oh, its currently 38F out and I'm burning propane Well until I can get off the computer
and start a fire!

Just found a tag on the propane furnace/attached.

Looks like I'm going to have to buy you a beer

 

[MedicineMan4040]

A shed would work just got to build a decent pad for it and cover said pad with heavy plastic before setting up floor frame for shed. humidity - unless your storage is inside the envelope of the home you are at mother natures whim. Most of the big box store have the bricks piled up outside no protection other than factory wrap and shipping wrap. theshep covers all the reall wet problems the plastic under the base blocks moisture from the ground. not much different than a pole barn or garage. due to off gassing of the blocks its not a good idea to have large amount in a confined space with minimal ventilation like the a basement. same goes for pellets.

More good knowledge shared! Thank you very much.
I was thinking of placing 2-3 packs of the bricks in contractor trash bags, squishing the air out and zip tying shut. Then placing in
an outside shed. I even thought of going around all the inside seems of the shed with Great Stuff sealing it. I'll keep studying the best how tos on this.

 

[mellow]

I bought a couple pallet loads of wood bricks about 7 years ago when a local wood processing company was stopping production, got them for super cheap. I have had them in an unconditioned outside storage building since that time, I will burn a few packs a year for bonfires and give some away but they are good to go right out of the package still. I had a friend that got some and put them outside with a tarp over them and they exploded and he had a huge mess to clean up, I don't recommend doing that.

 

[EbS-P]

Again my maths says at 32 F you get 17k btus from heat pump at 0.015$/k btus. Propane at 2.68$/ gallon costs 0.03$/ k btus.

So defrost will take more energy. Heat pump wind down to-3F but it won’t deliver enough heat at those temps.

So the cheapest solution is to set crossover to like 25F and have gas set as a secondary stage. It comes down to cost Va comfort. Gas is expensive. Free wood is cheapest. Buying wood is about the cost of gas.

Side note I like my eco bee being able to set the delta (temp difference from off to on to off) makes for mush longer cycle times is you don’t mode a bit of temp spread which as wood burners we don’t. It’s the number of starts that kills compressors.

Get your manuals here

2 Ton 14.3 SEER2 ACiQ Heat Pump - N4H5S24AKAAA

The ACiQ N4H5S24AKAAA is a standard heat pump condenser. Designed with comfort in mind and an inexpensive option for nearly any application, this condenser is considered a good all-around option for almost any application.

hvacdirect.com

https://hvacdirect.com/media/pdf/N4H5S%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

 

[MedicineMan4040]

Wow! You are an excellent researcher/that and I bet you are in the business or just plain curious!
Data points appreciated.
Me, I'd choose longevity over fuel costs, but your saying my 40F switching point is not going to help
the outside compressor live longer? Just making sure since you know this stuff inside and out.
More thinking about the wife, she'll far outlive me...marry a younger woman they said haha! Well I did.

 

[EbS-P]

Wow! You are an excellent researcher/that and I bet you are in the business or just plain curious!
Data points appreciated.
Me, I'd choose longevity over fuel costs, but your saying my 40F switching point is not going to help
the outside compressor live longer? Just making sure since you know this stuff inside and out.
More thinking about the wife, she'll far outlive me...marry a younger woman they said haha! Well I did.

I’m informed. State employee with a PhD living in a beach town I can’t afford the techs that do it right. So I learn what I needs done then follow up after them. I have zero faith in the average HVAC tech/ installer. It’s not all their fault. We won’t pay what it costs to do it right.

Change or clan your filters every month and get a professional service annually ( twice a year I’d you have pets) and that odds are the compressor won’t be the failure point.

 

[begreen]

Now on the pricing. I did just pay $859 for 320 gallons of propane

Lucky you, $2.68/gal is way below local cost here. It's not much above the national average. We haven't seen a price like that in over a decade. Local Seattle refill price for a BBQ 5 gallon bottle is $4.89/gal. !

 

[MedicineMan4040]

I’m informed. State employee with a PhD living in a beach town I can’t afford the techs that do it right. So I learn what I needs done then follow up after them. I have zero faith in the average HVAC tech/ installer. It’s not all their fault. We won’t pay what it costs to do it right.

Change or clan your filters every month and get a professional service annually ( twice a year I’d you have pets) and that odds are the compressor won’t be the failure point.

It's like you knew there are two dogs and two cats here. Dog prescribed by my doctor for deafness.

 

[EbS-P]

It's like you knew there are two dogs and two cats here. Dog prescribed by my doctor for deafness.

I’d like to know the number of pet free members here. It’s probably smaller than average

We have a big 70# poodle. It’s not hair but poodle fuzz.
My evaporator coil was so clogged one time. I thought I was getting is serviced it enough. Nope. I clean it once a year with the no rinse coil cleaner myself. I have foaming cleaner too that needs rinsed. I’ll do that myself too. My drain tube plugged with slime and my pan was a gross mess two years ago. It’s not a super easy coil to clean but it’s an outdoor package unit so the mess doesn’t matter.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

I’d like to know the number of pet free members here. It’s probably smaller than average

We have a big 70# poodle. It’s not hair but poodle fuzz.
My evaporator coil was so clogged one time. I thought I was getting is serviced it enough. Nope. I clean it once a year with the no rinse coil cleaner myself. I have foaming cleaner too that needs rinsed. I’ll do that myself too. My drain tube plugged with slime and my pan was a gross mess two years ago. It’s not a super easy coil to clean but it’s an outdoor package unit so the mess doesn’t matter.

You didn't happen to make a video of the cleaning process for YouTube? That would be something I think I could learn to do with instruction/seeing the process....and something I would do. I don't mind housy projects. Help the day go by. Our 27 pound Maine Coon has already killed 2 nice vacuums. So like you I think the montly filter change is minimum.
That's one HUGE thing I love about burning wood/woodstoves...simplicity, reliability, technology I can understand......until I found this site. Burning wood is a science in its own.

 

[EbS-P]

You didn't happen to make a video of the cleaning process for YouTube? That would be something I think I could learn to do with instruction/seeing the process....and something I would do. I don't mind housy projects. Help the day go by. Our 27 pound Maine Coon has already killed 2 nice vacuums. So like you I think the montly filter change is minimum.
That's one HUGE thing I love about burning wood/woodstoves...simplicity, reliability, technology I can understand......until I found this site. Burning would is a science in its own.

There are already lots of evaporator coil cleanings videos on you tube. A can of spray foaming cleaner is 8-10$. The thing about the inside coils is that to rinse is all has to drain out and the foam makes it slow.

This is what I would use as during the cooling season. You don’t dilute or need to rinse. It’s not a replacement for an annual cleaning is more of a supplement. It has some enzymes that help break down dirt.

Rule of coil cleaning don’t damage the coils. If is says rinse after xx minutes do it some cleaners are harsh and can damage coils if left on too long.

https://a.co/d/dgDm3GT

 

[Rickb]

I was in OK and southern KS a few weeks back when that cold snap hit. (0f -15f highs) And they all have heat pumps. Lets just say It was really really freaking cold. The building I was working in was 45F They couldn't get it warmer cause the mini split just kept kicking into defrost. I would have brought my own wood if they had a wood stove. lol......

That said if this is your first year, split some silver maple and ash and look up solar kiln and I bet your fine for next winter. If your still worried buy a pallet of redstone and store if right. You can always mix some.

 

[Poindexter]

When I was using bio-bricks I always kept them inside the house after the first water event. More expensive to buy in autumn compared to spring; but time is money and money is time.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

There are already lots of evaporator coil cleanings videos on you tube. A can of spray foaming cleaner is 8-10$. The thing about the inside coils is that to rinse is all has to drain out and the foam makes it slow.

This is what I would use as during the cooling season. You don’t dilute or need to rinse. It’s not a replacement for an annual cleaning is more of a supplement. It has some enzymes that help break down dirt.

Rule of coil cleaning don’t damage the coils. If is says rinse after xx minutes do it some cleaners are harsh and can damage coils if left on too long.

https://a.co/d/dgDm3GT

Thanks for the Amazon link. I'll be studying.

 

[MedicineMan4040]

When I was using bio-bricks I always kept them inside the house after the first water event. More expensive to buy in autumn compared to spring; but time is money and money is time.

I'm up to 180 of the Rural King wood fuel blocks in the house. That's max for inside storage/a wife thing BUT I've found a local who will deliver me a load. Not thinking for the remainder of this winter but the next.

 

[Poindexter]

Hopefully you will have enough quantity of dry enough cordwood to not need fuel blocks forever. Cordwood is much easier to store- like out in the weather top covered for instance.