Stove chimney draft problem (pictures attached)

[JoiseyJeff]

The wood burner pictured is in my basement. I can get a fire going but once I shut the door even with the air controls open the fire dies rapidly. If I crack the ash draw at the bottom open a 1/4 inch is fires right back up so I"m thinking it's draft due to the restriction in the current pipe set up. As pictured, has 3 90 degree turns. 2 are visible the 3rd turn is in the wall and then it goes straigt up the the roof (45 feet or so). I was thinking of getting a piece of stainless flexible pipe and run strait from the top of the stove to the wall. This would eliminate 2 90 degree turns. Also is it safe to paint that with hi-temp grill spray?

 

[JoiseyJeff]

Another pic from the other side.

 

[begreen]

Looks like you might be able to reduce that to 2 - 45's, which would help a lot. But the stove may still need an outside air kit if there's negative pressure in the basement. Then you may have a different issue. With a 45 foot stack, when it's hot, I would think a draft damper would be a necessity. When it's not hot, I would be concerned about condensing fumes in the flue.

How long has the stove been installed and burning? Has creosote been an issue so far?

 

[Todd]

I'd say that is definately your problem. Flex would work or maybe you could try 45 degree elbows instead?

 

[Jimbob]

The wood burner pictured is in my basement. I can get a fire going but once I shut the door even with the air controls open the fire dies rapidly. If I crack the ash draw at the bottom open a 1/4 inch is fires right back up so I"m thinking it's draft due to the restriction in the current pipe set up. As pictured, has 3 90 degree turns. 2 are visible the 3rd turn is in the wall and then it goes straigt up the the roof (45 feet or so). I was thinking of getting a piece of stainless flexible pipe and run strait from the top of the stove to the wall. This would eliminate 2 90 degree turns. Also is it safe to paint that with hi-temp grill spray?

The fact that it fires right back up with the ash drawer open indicates to me that the chimney has enough draft.
I suspect a blockage in the air inlet system on the stove. The symptoms you describe above are identical to what some pedestal stove owners experience when they forget to remove the knockout @ the back of the pedistal.

Do you have an outside air duct on the stove? maybe it's blocked.
What brand of stove?
Did it just start occuring?

BTW is that single wall connector pipe?
If so, it looks like it is a bit too close to the ceiling. Single wall pipe needs to be 18 " from any combustible surfaces.

 

[begreen]

I still think it's draft. Several Jotuls behave the same way. If you open the ash pan door you are giving it a ton more air at the bottom of the fire and turning the stove into a forge. Close the door and with a weak draft, the stove may smolder due to the metered air coming in and channeled as an airwash before reaching the base of the fire.

What else is running in the basement? Is there a furnace, gas hot water heater, clothes dryer, bathroom fan? All of these can exacerbate the situation in a basement.

 

[Jimbob]

Some info here:

http://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/index.asp?CaId=103&PgId=576

 

[fespo]

With two 45s you will be able to remove that piece of horizontal pipe. Thats what I would try first.

 

[JoiseyJeff]

The wood burner pictured is in my basement. I can get a fire going but once I shut the door even with the air controls open the fire dies rapidly. If I crack the ash draw at the bottom open a 1/4 inch is fires right back up so I"m thinking it's draft due to the restriction in the current pipe set up. As pictured, has 3 90 degree turns. 2 are visible the 3rd turn is in the wall and then it goes straigt up the the roof (45 feet or so). I was thinking of getting a piece of stainless flexible pipe and run strait from the top of the stove to the wall. This would eliminate 2 90 degree turns. Also is it safe to paint that with hi-temp grill spray?

The fact that it fires right back up with the ash drawer open indicates to me that the chimney has enough draft.
I suspect a blockage in the air inlet system on the stove. The symptoms you describe above are identical to what some pedestal stove owners experience when they forget to remove the knockout @ the back of the pedistal.

Do you have an outside air duct on the stove? maybe it's blocked.
What brand of stove?
Did it just start occuring?

BTW is that single wall connector pipe?
If so, it looks like it is a bit too close to the ceiling. Single wall pipe needs to be 18 " from any combustible surfaces.

I'm 22" from the ceiling might not show in that pic. The Stove is an Earth Stove model 1800HT. I have no idea on the previous operation I just bought the house. I can get a section of stainless flex pipe for free is that worth a try first? I was gonna run it from the top of the stove to the wall. The air controls seem to work with the doors closed. If I have a glowing piece of wood it glows more when the air control is open vs closed just not enought to keep the fire going even after the flu has been heated.

 

[JoiseyJeff]

I still think it's draft. Several Jotuls behave the same way. If you open the ash pan door you are giving it a ton more air at the bottom of the fire and turning the stove into a forge. Close the door and with a weak draft, the stove may smolder due to the metered air coming in and channeled as an airwash before reaching the base of the fire.

What else is running in the basement? Is there a furnace, gas hot water heater, clothes dryer, bathroom fan? All of these can exacerbate the situation in a basement.

Nothing else in the basement, plenty of air available and no other gas appliances running. in the fall even with the basement windows open when it was cold outside I got the same problems.

 

[Jimbob]

See if you can download an owner's manual for your stove here:
http://www.earthstove.com/owners/manuals.asp?pcid=3&archive=1

 

[swestall]

That idea of a 45 up top, then straight down to the stove and a 45 in seems pretty good. Where is the cleanout, is it drafting in at all?

 

[theheatelement]

Is this a new house.. if it's a used house.. ask the previous owner.. they might have had great success and it might be a problem above the black pipe.. just a thought.

 

[webbie]

The fact that it fires right back up with the ash drawer open indicates to me that the chimney has enough draft.

FYI, as BG mentions, the above statement is not true. A chimney or setup with poor draft will usually work once you put vastly more input air into it. So as far as troubleshooting, it would certainly seem as if the idea of adjustable els or 45's would help a lot.

I have never seen flex used as inside piping, but you can use adjustable els and get almost the same result. Make certain that you use furnace cement in the pipe joints.

Also, if that stove is a catalytic, check the cat for clogging. Also check to make certain no soot has settled on top of the baffle where the pipe enters the stove - or at the chimney bottom. In other words, check all the common sense stuff.

 

[RonB]

Don't forget the obvious--inspect /clean chimney for creosote build up. I vote with the others on the two 45's. Also, if you do run the 45's or whatever, put a little pitch (slight incline) uphill to the wall thimble/outlet. By the way, what is that horizontal white ring around the vertical stack?

 

[paulslush]

I did not see that the chimney has been cleaned or inspected, may seem sort of basic but a good place to start. Also you may might consider having the whole setup professionally inspected for safe clearences of the stove and chimmney. That just does not look like a well planned proffesional install. If you just bought the house might be a good investment to have a professional sweep give it good look over. Good luck with your new home.

 

[Gooserider]

I would definitely go the full clean route - my old smoke dragon drafted well when it had a clean chimney, but after it started to build up a good layer of crap in the chimney my draft would get really poor.

I have never heard anything in code saying you can't use flex as a connector pipe - at least as long as it is listed solid fuel flex, not something that was intended for some other application and has never been tested w/ a wood stove. You might need some adapters at one or both ends to make it fit as well as the flex itself. It is likely not going to look very good though, you might get better cosmetic results with the earlier suggestion of a couple 45*s or adjustable angles.

Likewise, I don't know of any reason you couldn't use some "Stove-bright" brand paint on the flex, although sometimes getting paint to adhere to stainless can be a challenge. (special note - Stove-Bright paint is acetone based and you REALLY DO need good ventilation when using the stuff - I'd also reccomend an organic fume respirator...)

Gooserider

 

[RonB]

mmmmmm, I always have liked the smell of acetone. Goes back to a high school science project with oranges. That's the only thing I can remember of the experiment--the oranges and smell of acetone.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

im thinking mis-appropriation of air, what type chimney? is it a masonary? is it lined,

does it have a cleanout door if masonary, if so , gasket the cleanout door, what happens is simple, when the door is open , its a fireplace, massive air and no restriction. when the door is shut , restriction is applied (its what makes stove more efficient not blowing through wood and dumping it all up the flue) chimneys are lazy by nature , they will take from the path of least resistance. if you have a flue leak such as is provided by an ungasketed cleanout door , then when the door is shut , the flue takes as much as it can through the leaky door and the stove gets the leftovers, which apparantly are not enough to burn the unit. cracking the ash pan on the stove simply releases the restriction same as cracking the door, and the flue reverts back to the stove. check for that cleanout door and seal it up , make the flue have to pull the stove and you will get more draft even with a closed door.