Stove choices..Thinking about an Englander NC30 or a ds machine 110. Overnight burn time?

[SpAmSoNiTe]

New member all.. After burning a us stove Wondercoal with slabwood for the last four years, it is finally time to replace our setup with something newer/more efficient. Got some helpful info on adding a new stainless chimney from here and am reconsidering my choice of stove. We are considering going with either a ds machine energymax 110(dual fuel, but more geared towards wood with reburn tubes and a plate that covers the grates for wood burning almost more of a small furnace at 680 lbs and a 3.5 cu ft firebox), or an Englander nc30. Really like the difference in price(900 vs 2000 for the ds) and what everyone seems to say about the bang for your buck value of the nc30

Read quite a bit on this forum about the nc30 that has gotten us thinking about it pretty seriously. we've got a fairly drafty, poorly laid out, roughly 1700 sq. Ft. house that the wondercoal heats okay, but to get us through until we get home from work(roughly 10-10 1/2 hours), we have to damp it down so low we get some pretty bad buildups in the chimney. On the coldest days, we would mix in a little anthracite stove coal to get a little extra burn time for an easy restart when I got home.
One of the big considerations for our new stove would be to get a burn time long enough to at least have coals to restart it before bed. from the little I've read here, it seems that kind of burn time is stretching things with a non-cat stove(don't particularly want one). With that huge firebox on the Englander, is it possible? I know everyones houses and locations are different(I am in northeast Ohio, btw.. Seldom below 0 deg. But often in the teens/single digits in late Jan/early feb.),but I was curious what kind of burn times the Englander users were getting outta their stoves. Sorry to be so long winded.. Pretty much still feel like a newbie to burning and wanted to describe my situation as best as possible.

 

[pen]

Are you heating from a basement with the stove, or is it in the main living space?

 

[SpAmSoNiTe]

Are you heating from a basement with the stove, or is it in the main living space?

Didn't think to post that. It's going in the main living space. Open living room/kitchen area on a far wall with 8 ft. ceilings, about 575 sq. ft. of the house.

 

[pen]

I'll say this for the 30, if you buy it at a decent price this time of year (they can be found on sale sometimes) that if you run it and do not like it, you won't lose much on the price selling it the following year.

For that size space, having the 30 in the main living area, I'd think you would do well.

I really don't know enough about the other unit to comment on that, other than if keeping a few years worth of wood on hand split / stacked so that it's going to be really well seasoned is an issue, then that would be a vote for a stove that can burn coal..... The 30 really requires wood that is very well seasoned to be a pleasure to operate and get the most out of it.

 

[Grisu]

Hot coals should be possible after 10 hours in the NC-30. I can get that from my smaller stove. A lot depends on what kind of wood you load and how well seasoned it is. Some dry, high BTU hardwood like oak and locust should easily last that long. On the other hand, if you expect coming home to a warm house with the NC-30 that may be a challenge. It will depend a lot on the insulation of your house and outside temps. There are other, even bigger stoves out there but they come with a higher price tag and most of them will need an 8"-flue. A relatively cheap option for a large, hybrid stove (has a cat and secondary burn tubes) is the Woodstock Ideal Steel. ~$2000 right now plus shipping.

P.S. Please be aware that the NC30 will need a hearth of R2.0.

 

[SpAmSoNiTe]

Having wood ready to go shouldnt be too much of an issue. I live in a pretty rural area and burn slabwood(end cuts from hardwood when they rough kut them in the woods or at the mill). While it isn't as good as cordwood, it is ridiculously cheap around here ($5-10 a bundle. I probably get close to 3/4 of a cord per)due to lots of logging and mills in the area. I've got about 15 bundles sitting outside right now(about 3 yrs work in the old wondercoal smoke dragon).

 

[Grisu]

Having wood ready to go shouldnt be too much of an issue. I live in a pretty rural area and burn slabwood(end cuts from hardwood when they rough kut them in the woods or at the mill). While it isn't as good as cordwood, it is ridiculously cheap around here ($5-10 a bundle. I probably get close to 3/4 of a cord per)due to lots of logging and mills in the area. I've got about 15 bundles sitting outside right now(about 3 yrs work in the old wondercoal smoke dragon).

Never burned slabwood but it sounds like it is still pretty wet when you get it. Are you seasoning it in your yard before putting it in your stove? Having dry wood will cut down on your chimney deposits and give you also more heat (that is wasted by boiling off the water from the wood).

Btw. For the other stove you can also try that coal burner forum: http://nepacrossroads.com/ They may have more experience with it.

 

[SpAmSoNiTe]

Never burned slabwood but it sounds like it is still pretty wet when you get it. Are you seasoning it in your yard before putting it in your stove? Having dry wood will cut down on your chimney deposits and give you also more heat (that is wasted by boiling off the water from the wood).

Btw. For the other stove you can also try that coal burner forum: http://nepacrossroads.com/ They may have more experience with it.

Yeah, they are fresh cut from the woods when I get the bundles. Most pieces in the bundles are more wide than they are thick due to what they are. I let the whole bundles sit for at least a year, then cut/stack them(very few are thick/wide enough to need split) in my covered makeshift woodshed(made from old fencing. plenty of room for air to flow through it.)in the spring to burn in the fall. I attached a random pic. I found of cut/stacked slabwood from Craigslist for those who might have never seen it. Usually get somewhere around 18% or so for most of the pieces on my cheap little moisture meter from Harbor Freight..

 

[Casrep]

Go to homedepot.com then change your local store to Bristol, VA 24202. In mid-March I ordered an NC-30 for $649 plus $99 shipping. It arrived on March 25. The blower was missing. Called HD. The blower arrived a week later. http://firewoodhoardersclub.com/forums/index.php?threads/englander-nc30-deal-ordered.3285/ Some guy ordered an NC-30 from an HD in Tenn. He took pictures. My NC-30 has exactly the same "damaged" firebrick. He installed his 30. My 30 will not be installed until Sept. My 30 arrived with paint missing from an area about half the size of my little finger. I speculate that the great price is due to some minor blemish.

 

[SpAmSoNiTe]

I saw another post about the Bristol thing and checked it out myself. I just did the same thing with a supervent install kit from Lowes(123 in Kingwood TX, 198 in ashtabula oh. Sweet talked the manager into matching it :D). I think I'm really gonna consider the englander if the better half likes it.

 

[Grisu]

Yeah, they are fresh cut from the woods when I get the bundles. Most pieces in the bundles are more wide than they are thick due to what they are. I let the whole bundles sit for at least a year, then cut/stack them(very few are thick/wide enough to need split) in my covered makeshift woodshed(made from old fencing. plenty of room for air to flow through it.)in the spring to burn in the fall. I attached a random pic. I found of cut/stacked slabwood from Craigslist for those who might have never seen it. Usually get somewhere around 18% or so for most of the pieces on my cheap little moisture meter from Harbor Freight..

Good that you are burning dry wood. One problem that may keep you from getting long burn times may be the small size of your splits. You will probably need to pack that pretty tight to not burn that up very quickly. What kind of chimney do you have right now?

The NC30 is a great stove; you should be happy. If you have problems getting the heat distributed try putting a small fan on the floor on the other side of the house blowing cold air towards the stove room. Warmer air from the stove will pass along the ceiling to replace the colder air, thereby warming up the room where the fan is located. Of course, you should not have corners in between.

 

[JA600L]

I tried doing the non cat epa thing while working 10 hours. Everytime I came home to a cool house. That is why I am agreeing with Grisu that the Ideal Steel is the way to go. I have one on order.

The energy max is a great stove that I considered as well, but it is not epa certified. Their efficiency claims are their own testing. Plus their theory is just make it hold more wood to burn longer. When I stopped in at their factory, they didn't think it could go 10 hours with usable heat. Why use more wood?

I think non cat epa stoves are great, but they will not give you 10 hours of usable heat without tending. Unless you have perfect firewood full to the max.

 

[weatherguy]

Slab woods good to burn but I'd get some cordwood with some big splits if you want longer burns, just make sure to let the wood season properly otherwise your experience with a new stove will be frustrating.

 

[begreen]

I think non cat epa stoves are great, but they will not give you 10 hours of usable heat without tending. Unless you have perfect firewood full to the max.

There definitely are non-cat stoves the provide good heat for 10 hrs. Our normal schedule when 24/7 burning is 8-10 hrs between refills. Our neighbor tells me he typically goes 12 hrs with his Spectrum in a bit smaller 1600 sq ft home. These times are with full loads of good wood. With a decent sized firebox the reload rate is more a matter of heat loss in the home and outdoor temps, cat or non-cat.

 

[JA600L]

There definitely are non-cat stoves the provide good heat for 10 hrs. Our normal schedule when 24/7 burning is 8-10 hrs between refills. Our neighbor tells me he typically goes 12 hrs with his Spectrum in a bit smaller 1600 sq ft home. These times are with full loads of good wood. With a decent sized firebox the reload rate is more a matter of heat loss in the home and outdoor temps, cat or non-cat.

This can all be done with no tending to the fire whatsoever ?

 

[begreen]

Around hour 8 or 9 I will open up the air a bit to burn down the coals.

No doubt that a cat stove on a low burn will go longer if the stove has more capacity. But when it's cold outside and the stove is being pushed, btus are btus. You need to equal the heat loss of the house or over time the house will cool down.

 

[pen]

This can all be done with no tending to the fire whatsoever ?

Yep, BG said it well.

 

[JA600L]

"Got a fairly drafty, poorly laid out, roughly 1700 sq. Ft. house that the wondercoal heats okay, but to get us through until we get home from work(roughly 10-10 1/2 hours), we have to damp it down so low we get some pretty bad buildups in the chimney. On the coldest days, we would mix in a little anthracite stove coal to get a little extra burn time for an easy restart when I got home."

There's no way it will do the job in that scenario.

 

[pen]

"Got a fairly drafty, poorly laid out, roughly 1700 sq. Ft. house that the wondercoal heats okay, but to get us through until we get home from work(roughly 10-10 1/2 hours), we have to damp it down so low we get some pretty bad buildups in the chimney. On the coldest days, we would mix in a little anthracite stove coal to get a little extra burn time for an easy restart when I got home."

There's no way it will do the job in that scenario.

So you've used a wondercoal to know how they operate on a load of wood?

If not, I'll tell you, these stove can kick heat but also send a good many extra BTU"s up the flue.

I stand by my original comments to this thread.

 

[JA600L]

I'm just saying he has a drafty poorly laid out house. If you say it will work OK. I just know how frustrating it is to come home to a cooled house even with coals in the stove after working 10 hours. 10 hours is a long time for a peaked burn cycle.

 

[JA600L]

Burning coal in the energy max 110 would probably do the job.

 

[begreen]

To get back to the OP's question. Personally I would consider getting the 30NC and putting the savings into improving the house sealing. $1000 can buy a lot of caulking material and even some more insulation. Tightening up the house is a win-win solution. You'll burn less fuel and be more comfortable.

 

[pen]

I'm just saying he has a drafty poorly laid out house. If you say it will work OK. I just know how frustrating it is to come home to a cooled house even with coals in the stove after working 10 hours. 10 hours is a long time for a peaked burn cycle.

Yep, every new stove in every home is a gamble.

At least with the 30, if someone buys one they know they are getting a solid stove at a fair price. If the unit winds up not being a fit for them, it's not much of a loss to sell it and move to something different if need be as compared to buying a stove at 2x or more the cost, where the loss on selling is much greater. Additionally, the other stove option in this case, may perhaps not be as efficient a unit to start with for wood, being this sort of combo.

 

[SpAmSoNiTe]

Good that you are burning dry wood. One problem that may keep you from getting long burn times may be the small size of your splits. You will probably need to pack that pretty tight to not burn that up very quickly. What kind of chimney do you have right now?

The NC30 is a great stove; you should be happy. If you have problems getting the heat distributed try putting a small fan on the floor on the other side of the house blowing cold air towards the stove room. Warmer air from the stove will pass along the ceiling to replace the colder air, thereby warming up the room where the fan is located. Of course, you should not have corners in between.

My current chimney setup was a concrete block with 8" square tile, with about 12 ft. from the thimble to top on an exterior wall. I felt it had less than stellar performance
. it has been slowly deteriating over the years and about two Weeks ago I pulled the single wall pipe(only a 2 foot horiz. Run directly from stove to chimney) to find the clay thimble to have completely broken apart. I could probably fix it, but given the condition of the exterior block and everything else, I decided to just condemn it and go with double wall stainless straight up. gonna be closer to around 15 ft.from the outlet to the raincap when all is said and done with the new pipe I think.

 

[JA600L]

To get back to the OP's question. Personally I would consider getting the 30NC and putting the savings into improving the house sealing. $1000 can buy a lot of caulking material and even some more insulation. Tightening up the house is a win-win solution. You'll burn less fuel and be more comfortable.

That I would agree with.