Stove for 700sqf home

Dmichigan

Member
Oct 29, 2014
114
michigan
Hey guys I'm currently converting a 16x48 shed to a home, it has the gambrel roof so ceilings are 12 foot. the floor, walls and ceiling are all 2x6 and will be well insulated. Trying to find a good efficient 8 hour burn stove that can be used to cook on if needed as well. I've looked at Lopi, vermont casting and quadrafire so far. I have owned a drolet ht2000 for my garage and it was a pretty good stove. What's your thoughts? Oh I live in the frozen northern tundra of michigan and it can get -40f.

Thanks!
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,163
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
For that small area and long burn time requirement, I'd want a big stove with excellent turn-down.

No question that I'd go for a BK Princess, but if you are okay with opening windows in shoulder season, you could get away with something else.

Speaking of windows, the windows that are installed in sheds are often really poor. Adding cheap vinyl windows might be a big upgrade insulation-wise.

Screwing 2x2s to your 2x6s will let you go from R19 to R30.
 
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Dmichigan

Member
Oct 29, 2014
114
michigan
I'm still debating on doing 2 inches of spray foam and R13 or 2" ridgid and R13. The windows are a vinyl 24x36 double pane window. It's only getting 4 of those and I'm buying the rest because I wanted some bigger ones for the living area and a slider to the patio. Roof is steel and siding is the smartside siding and It's built by the amist around here somewhere.

https://www.mylakesidecabins.com/store/p2/Rochester.html
 

Dmichigan

Member
Oct 29, 2014
114
michigan
Looking up dealers for blaze king I have one just 30 minutes away, Looks like i'm going to look tomorrow.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
For that small area and long burn time requirement, I'd want a big stove with excellent turn-down.

No question that I'd go for a BK Princess, but if you are okay with opening windows in shoulder season, you could get away with something else.
Ditto. Nothing turns down better than a BK, and there is no model in their line-up more time-tested than the Princess.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
78,132
South Puget Sound, WA
No question that I'd go for a BK Princess, but if you are okay with opening windows in shoulder season, you could get away with something else.
That's a fallacy. Friends have been heating solely with a big Summit in a 1600 sq ft home for the past 7 yrs. They rarely open a window and they don't like a particularly hot house. We've only had to open a window for a short time in 10yrs with the T6 and that was my error. What may be more important to the OP is how well the stove heats the place when it's well below zero outside. If the place is only heated by wood then the Princess is a good choice. The Woodstock Ideal Steel would also work well. If there is an efficient primary or supplemental heating system then the benefit of a stove that burns very low is not that important.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
Have you considered a wood cook stove? You could kill two birds with one stone depending. Check out the Heco 420.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
6,950
Schenectady, NY
If the cat stove doesn't work, you might want to look into the cast iron clad stoves and those made of soapstone. Their thermal mass will slow down the temperature spike non cat stoves can have.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
That's a fallacy. Friends have been heating solely with a big Summit in a 1600 sq ft home for the past 7 yrs. They rarely open a window and they don't like a particularly hot house.
I hear and believe you, but the OP’s house is 700 sq ft. His entire house fits inside any decent 2-car garage, this space is tiny! Even at his latitude, the ability to dial the stove way down for the majority of the year is going to be a huge issue, and I believe that is the basis for jetsam’s response.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
78,132
South Puget Sound, WA
700 sq ft with a 12 ft ceiling peak and a potential -40F outdoor temp. A cat stove should work fine, but lots of non-cat users are comfortable too, even in milder temps. If the place has a mini-split for cooling and heating then the advantage becomes less important.
 

EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
6,950
Schenectady, NY
The only clean way I've found to dial a big stove back to a small fire is to fill the bottom with firebrick and/or ash. I've never been impressed by the big stove small fire movement.
 

Dmichigan

Member
Oct 29, 2014
114
michigan
So the dealer said no to the blaze kings. He said its way to big and my options are limited at best :( Back in the day it was not so complicated lol
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
So the dealer said no to the blaze kings. He said its way to big and my options are limited at best :( Back in the day it was not so complicated lol
How are your options for the BK stoves limited? Sounds like the dealer doesn't want to make any money from you.
 

Dmichigan

Member
Oct 29, 2014
114
michigan
How are your options for the BK stoves limited? Sounds like the dealer doesn't want to make any money from you.
I guess the stoves are to big or won't make an overnight burn IDK. If after 8 hours I still have coals I'd be happy.

I have maple and ash available to burn all seasoned.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
I guess the stoves are to big or won't make an overnight burn IDK. If after 8 hours I still have coals I'd be happy.

I have maple and ash available to burn all seasoned.
I have a tiny, itty bitty stove and I can still light on coals after 8 hours with soft woods. We heat a 1200 sqft salt box in Downeast Maine with a Morso 2b Classic.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
I guess the stoves are to big or won't make an overnight burn IDK. If after 8 hours I still have coals I'd be happy.

I have maple and ash available to burn all seasoned.
A BK Princess will run over 30 hours on a low setting. Do the BTU math, don’t assume your dealer knows his stuff.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
Really like the B2 Standard!
It's mostly the same as my stove, minus the fancy looking heat exchanger top and no ash pan. It's probably undersized for your house, but Morso does make a few larger stoves. Morso rates the 2B Classic at 4-6 hours of burn time. I'm not saying there's a firebox full of coals after 8 hours, but I can get a fire going without any drama. On really cold nights I wake up and load the stove around 0400 (about six hours after getting a full load going). Our 2B Classic ran us about $1,900 after tax.

Allegedly the BK stoves don't create loads of creosote on an ultra low burn. When I need low heat output, I just burn an even smaller fire. Our stove ran from November till the first week of July. For the whole season I maybe had a whole gallon of creosote, but that's mostly to do with my oversized chimney and my less than seasoned wood. I expect next heating season to yield less than a half gallon total with a new liner and better firewood. We decided that rather than run a giant stove at it's minimum capacity we would rather run a smaller stove at 75% for the majority of the time. It's tough to size a smaller house for a stove, especially if the house is well insulated and air sealed. Our stove would not keep the house above 70f at -40f outside, but we also have baseboard heaters to pick up the slack. This fall I'm also installing a wood burning cookstove in my kitchen so we should never need anything other than wood to heat.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
But on low won't the creosote build up? I thought they had to run hot?
Nope. That's the whole point of a cat stove. You can run the stove dead-cold, just smouldering the wood and producing wood gas. The combustor can stay "lit" or "active" at less than half the temperature of a non-cat, consuming (re-burning) the wood gas, and keeping your flue clean.

Most flue accumulation in a cat stove happens during the initial start-up phase, when you have the combustor bypassed, and ironically you're burning on the highest setting then.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
Allegedly the BK stoves don't create loads of creosote on an ultra low burn.
That is correct. They do not create loads of creosote on super low burns. For full disclosure, here is what I have gathered, putting roughly 50 cords thru my own two BK's and reading way too much on this forum:

1. BK's are usually run at much lower exhaust temperature than most other stoves. This is probably due to the combination of two factors, (1) very high efficiency = very little heat up the flue, (2) folks buy them with the intent to run them very low for long burn times.

2. This low exhaust temperature increases the likelihood of the particulate matter that does pass thru the combustor actually condensing before it reaches the top of the flue. So while all EPA stoves have some particulate output, that from the BK may be more likely to condense, due to the lower exhaust temperature.

3. Most cat stoves work by burning in bypass mode for 20'ish minutes on a cold start, waiting to get the combustor up to temperature. During this period the flue is cold and particulate output is high, so expect some deposits.

All of this adds up to BK's probably having higher creosote deposits than many non-cats. But even stating all of that, it is a non-issue for most of us, especially when compared to the absolutely filthy pre-EPA stoves many have run. Most BK owners still only need to clean their flue once per year, like most non-cat burners, but they will probably get more out of the flue when they do.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
That is correct. They do not create loads of creosote on super low burns. For full disclosure, here is what I have gathered, putting roughly 50 cords thru my own two BK's and reading way too much on this forum:

1. BK's are usually run at much lower exhaust temperature than most other stoves. This is probably due to the combination of two factors, (1) very high efficiency = very little heat up the flue, (2) folks buy them with the intent to run them very low for long burn times.

2. This low exhaust temperature increases the likelihood of the particulate matter that does pass thru the combustor actually condensing before it reaches the top of the flue. So while all EPA stoves have some particulate output, that from the BK may be more likely to condense, due to the lower exhaust temperature.

3. Most cat stoves work by burning in bypass mode for 20'ish minutes on a cold start, waiting to get the combustor up to temperature. During this period the flue is cold and particulate output is high, so expect some deposits.

All of this adds up to BK's probably having higher creosote deposits than many non-cats. But even stating all of that, it is a non-issue for most of us, especially when compared to the absolutely filthy pre-EPA stoves many have run. Most BK owners still only need to clean their flue once per year, like most non-cat burners, but they will probably get more out of the flue when they do.
Honestly stoves are all so close in efficiency and emissions it's up to the operator. In my exhaustive search for a stove patterns quickly emerged. Most stove manufacturers make a few different flavored stoves in three to four sizes. It's like there's a formula for the firebox that every manufacturer follows more or less. This is akin to Formula 1, Nascar, WRC, etc. where the manufacturers are given very strict rules on what can be built. In racing formula type builds the intent is to make it a driver's race rather than who has the most money for R&D. For stoves this "formula" seems to do the same thing.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
14,767
Philadelphia
Honestly stoves are all so close in efficiency and emissions it's up to the operator.
The official EPA list of wood and pellet stoves shows EPA-certified stoves with emission rates from 0.22 grams per hour up to 4.5 grams per hour, a range of more than 20:1.

Likewise, the same list shows efficiencies ranging from 58 to 87 percent... not what I'd call that close!
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,624
Downeast Maine
The official EPA list of wood and pellet stoves shows EPA-certified stoves with emission rates from 0.22 grams per hour up to 4.5 grams per hour, a range of more than 20:1.

Likewise, the same list shows efficiencies ranging from 58 to 87 percent... not what I'd call that close!
When compared to a cat stove without a cat installed, a pre-epa stove, or a non cat burning unseasoned wood, they are really close.
 
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