Stove options for short vertical pipe to horizontal bend?

[fjordrr]

Looking for backup options in case getting a Woodstock Progress Hybrid doesn't work out. Am replacing an existing installation where there is only approx 51.5" from hearth to middle of exit pipe, so looking for stove options that will burn well with a short vertical pipe before taking a bend to horizontal (to enter chimney.)

Example - Lopi Rockport says it needs 84" (!) so that is out. Will consider cast iron or steel. Prefer stove with cat & bypass, & takes at least 18" log i.e. a bigger stove.

Here's a pic of the old (now removed) stove:

 

[begreen]

That may be misinterpreting the Lopi manual's requirements. 84" sounds like the minimum ceiling height.
What's important is whether there is a 6" insulated liner in the chimney and the chimney liner height from thimble to chimney cap.

 

[fjordrr]

Thank you. Yes, there is a 6" liner installed in '22 and at that time the exterior portion of the chimney height was increased a couple of feet with pipe. I'd love for me to be misinterpreting the Lopi manual, this is what it says with a pic:

"A vertical rise of 84” (2134mm) of chimney connector is required, measured from the floor, before entering a Class ‘A’ chimney wall penetration (see below). Note that the measurement is to the centerline of the flue when it makes a 90-degree bend. Follow the clearances specified by the manufacturer of the double-wall connector (or 18” (457mm) if using single-wall connector).."

 

[stovelark]

I looked at manual too, that is a difficult vertical requirement to achieve, if going horizontal... seems they really want a vertical chimney if possible. I understand operationally the taller rise is desirable, but I'd think the install would look a little awkward... its unusual. Stay warm.

 

[begreen]

Thank you. Yes, there is a 6" liner installed in '22 and at that time the exterior portion of the chimney height was increased a couple of feet with pipe. I'd love for me to be misinterpreting the Lopi manual, this is what it says with a pic:

"A vertical rise of 84” (2134mm) of chimney connector is required, measured from the floor, before entering a Class ‘A’ chimney wall penetration (see below). Note that the measurement is to the centerline of the flue when it makes a 90-degree bend. Follow the clearances specified by the manufacturer of the double-wall connector (or 18” (457mm) if using single-wall connector).."

View attachment 338155

Thanks. I found that page. Travis sometimes goes to extremes to be compliant. This is the first time I have seen this statement, but it clearly states that this is for a class A (UL 103 HT) chimney connection. That is not what you have. The next paragraph covers the chimney liner connection. Unfortunately, there are two threads on this same topic which is causing some redundancy . I've closed the prior thread with a link to this one.



More important is the Rockport's minimum chimney height requirement of 15'. In measuring the liner height, subtract 4 ft for the resistance introduced by the two, sharp, 90º turns in the flue path as it goes through the elbow, then the liner tee.

Woodstock? thread - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/w-wa-installer-for-woodstock-stove.207274/

 

[fjordrr]

The weather hasn't been conducive to getting the measurement, but will soon. Just so I understand 100%, I measure from the middle of the liner tee to bottom of cap, then subtract 4'? I'm already guesstimating that may be short of 15' due to the subtraction. But I am not a good estimator so take that with a grain of salt...

 

[begreen]

Correct, a rough rule of thumb is to subtract 2' for every 90º turn in the flue path. A variable is altitude which also requires greater flue height at higher altitudes over about 3,000 ft.

 

[fjordrr]

Got sidetracked (rodent in your truck's cabin air filter & both sleds will do that) - but got this done, 15 feet minus 4 feet = 11 feet. So Rockport is definitely out, correct?

 

[begreen]

An easy breathing stove will likely perform best in a milder climate with a short flue. Look at Canadian stoves from SBI, PE, & Regency.

 

[fjordrr]

Gotcha, OK thank you.

 

[barnaclebob]

FYI, you can check my signature on the how I got my progress hybrid up some stairs. None of the 4 of us who lifted it are particularly strong including my wife who is 5'1" so if you can get some folks with real strength it shouldn't be too bad.

As for installation, if you aren't changing your chimney then there is no real "installation", Its just hooking up stove pipe which we all agree is a DIY activity when its time for cleaning.

 

[fjordrr]

Thanks, I had actually read through your post before - the stove looks beautiful in your house. Good to know about the 4 strong people can do it Still haven't made a decision but need to do it soon.

Question on "easy breathing" stoves - I've been trying to find some manufacturer draft data (wc) on the PE Alderlea T5/T6, but can't. Anyone out there have that? So far for easy breathing I've come up with:

Regency F2500 - max .06
Progress Hybrid - .04-.07

 

[Todd]

Why wouldn’t the Woodstock work out? 22’ of lined 6” chimney should be fine as far as draft goes. If your concerned about getting the stove on the hearth maybe hire a moving company or a local handy man with help?

 

[fjordrr]

It's 15' chimney from the tee with 2 elbows on the connector pipe, and a short distance (less than 2') from stove top to 1st elbow. The Alderlea is a good looking stove and the concept of a steel box with cast iron on the outside is an intriguing one - having done some re-cementing maintenance on a Jotul at about the 10-12 year mark, would be nice to avoid that. Yes it doesn't have a cat, and doesn't qualify for the rebate in the larger sizes, but if its draft requirements are in that easy breather range it would sure be a more push-button option.

Would definitely hire some movers or the like for the Progress. From the specs it should work well.

 

[begreen]

Thanks, I had actually read through your post before - the stove looks beautiful in your house. Good to know about the 4 strong people can do it Still haven't made a decision but need to do it soon.

Question on "easy breathing" stoves - I've been trying to find some manufacturer draft data (wc) on the PE Alderlea T5/T6, but can't. Anyone out there have that? So far for easy breathing I've come up with:

Regency F2500 - max .06
Progress Hybrid - .04-.07

The T6 will be in that same range.

 

[fjordrr]

👍 Thanks for all the help. I guess it is down to the Alderlea T6 or Progress...

 

[fjordrr]

OK, got a clearance question now. Have pretty much settled on a T5 due to room size etc. The depth of the existing hearth is only 42.5" to the wood trim (pic at top of this thread.) However, the brick wall at rear is 3.5" thick with an average 2.25" air gap, then log=combustible surface.

The depth of the T5 from rear heat shield to glass is about 25".
Front clearance needs to be 16" which brings me to 41"

T5 with double wall pipe requires 5" clearance. Technically, I think I could install the T5 at 1.5" off the rear brick wall and be code compliant - is that correct? Or advisable? Am a little worried about how hot that brick would get...

Alternative is to rip the front wood trim off the raised hearth & replace with cement board, tile it vertically and also add a floor-level hearth extension just in front w/ cement board+tile.

Thoughts? Plan on replacing the green tile anyway...

 

[begreen]

The clearance measurement is to the nearest combustible, or in this case, the wood behind the wall. Technically, the brick will act as a shield, but there is no testing data for that so the 5" clearance with double-wall is the guideline. Will a blower be attached? That will protrude a bit more from the rear (3"?) if so.

 

[fjordrr]

OK thanks again, appreciate the info. Not planning on blower. Sounds like the full front teardown is the plan for the hearth then - good to have more room anyway.

Thought of dropping down even further in size to the T4 to avoid extending the hearth, but really want the possibility of an overnight burn.
Now that the hearth expansion is a definite yes, am wavering a bit on going back up to the T6 - just ~3" more depth required. But I'm guessing the T6 might push out too much heat for the space - how many sq ft are you heating with yours?

 

[begreen]

We're heating a 2000 sq ft, old farmhouse with too many large windows. How many sq ft are you heating? What model Dutchwest stove is this replacing? Does it have a 6" or 8" flue in the chimney? Is the chimney flue clay-lined or with an insulated stainless steel liner inside?

 

[fjordrr]

Thanks. This is an old log home, unusually, with a lot of big windows. This new stove will be replacing the XL Dutchwest (2462) which had an 8" to 6" reducer on the connector pipe. Chimney is uninsulated stainless 6" liner. Want overnight burn for a good amount of supplemental and emergency heat.

sq feet are hard to estimate due to a bit of non-traditional construction - used appraisal sq ft and asked chatgpt it came up with:

• ~1,000 sq ft directly heated on the main floor
• ~460 sq ft indirectly heated on the main floor (adjacent kit/DR, there is a lightly used Lopi gas stove in this area)
• ~460 sq ft upstairs, open to below, with high ceilings (lots of heat goes up here, maybe the blower would be a good idea...)

➡️ Total volume to heat is effectively equivalent to 1,600–1,800+ sq ft, possibly more due to tall ceilings and vertical airflow to the second floor.

----
Started demo on the hearth pad yesterday, green tile is gone and front wood trim removed - cracked it in the process, oopsie. Don't have a complete plan yet on how this is going to be reconfigured but hey, at least there is time to figure this all out.

 

[begreen]

Go large with the T6. It won't overheat the place.

 

[fjordrr]

👍10-4, if it can be squeezed in. Fighting that age-old problem of "hearth pad creep" into the living space... don't want to create an obstacle course. Thanks yet again.

 

[30WCF]

Are the ones you’re considering ember only?

If so, you could loose the raised pad and put down painted steel floor protection for minimal obstruction in the room.

 

[fjordrr]

Been thinking about losing the pad, but there is spousal objection... and I have to admit for old creaky folks, probably makes loading the thing easier on the back. Yep, ember protection only.

I found an old thread on this site that seems to indicate that a hearth extension for a raised hearth could step down to floor level. So if I need, say, 4" more out front I could just do backer board + tile at floor level - i.e. a 2 level hearth. If that's true, I'm wondering why more folks with "space challenges" aren't doing this? I couldn't find a single example photo with a google search.

Talking about this:
IRC 2009 "When the bottom of the firebox opening is raised at least 8 inches (203mm) above the top of the hearth extension, a hearth extension of not less than 3/8 inch-thick (10mm) brick, stone, tile or other approves noncombustible material is permitted."