stove selection

[Zamfir]

Hello ,I've been lurking for months so that i could learn as much as possible before i waste any time with lazy questions, but i am a newbie to wood burning. My wife and i bought a home that we intend on retiring in, i am already semi retired. Our home is an A frame chalet style house with a full basement that is 23 x 35 ft. with a central ,open stairway. The main floor is directly above, also 23 x 35 split into 2 small bedrooms, bathroom, living room with a vaulted ceiling and a small kitchen. The upstairs is a small loft. The above ground sq. footage is 1100 ft.
The home was built in the 70s as a seasonal hunting camp and is very leaky with large windows and poor insulation. I have access to the basement from the main hallway for feeding the stove and there is also a convenient ground level entrance that opens up directly to our 10 acres of hardwoods, located in the middle of a national forest.At one time there was a woodstove in the basement and there is still a hole for my chimney in the block wall, 6 ft. off the floor. There used to be a masonry chimney outside of the hole that went straight up to the roof peak that has been torn down,but it was in the perfect location so i won't even have to go thru the eaves.
This past winter was the 1st in this home and it became obvious to us that we would never be able to afford to live here if we have to keep paying for propane. And why should we with 10 acres of hardwoods? My situation is this, it would cost me tons of money to fix everything, and time and labor for skills i don't possess. But what i do possess is free time, and more wood than i can use. So my inefficiency will have to come from , my sweat and from burning lots of wood. But with the priority of burning clean and safe.
We live in Michigans upper peninsula so it's really cold for 3 or 4 months and kind of cold for another 3 or 4 months. I need to be able to burn with temps in the 40s as well as sub zero. We are on a fixed income and have to cut costs everywhere, my hope is that having a very warm basement will be able to heat this small home, i think that if the cold north wall and the cold floor are warmed, then the rest of the house will have to be warm.
To start with i need help selecting a stove, i like the prices and accessibility at Lowes. My initial thought was maybe the Vogelzang that is rated at 1500 sq, ft but thats nothing more than a guess. Lowes also has selkirk double wall chimney pipe for 85ish for 3 ft. which is by far the cheapest way i've found to go straight up 23 ft.
So to sum up my plan, my stove would be within 5 ft. of the north wall in the basement, with about 5 ft. of double wall stove pipe going straight out the block wall and 90 deg. straight up, 2 feet above the peak which is about 23 ft. total. Also, i have a very leaky basement and will tighten it up accordingly, but not until i see what kind of draft i'll get, since the leaks may help draft.
2 other important points, i would like to get a good 7 hr. burn for sleeping purposes ,lol , and also , do i need a hearth pad if my stove is on a concrete floor in an unfinished basement.
I have other questions but i've taken enough of your time for my initial post, ...what stove? and is selkirk from Lowes ok? Thank you to anyone who spent there valuable time trudging thru this post.
sorry my pics stink.

 

[edyit]

If you're looking at stove brands from lowes, look at the Summers Heat line. If you're putting the stove in the basement then no you don't need a hearth pad if it is on a concrete floor. Also keep in mind if the basement is uninsulated you will lose a lot of heat to the walls. Selkirk isn't bad. I've had it myself now for 8 years with no problems. Another thing to remember is that any stove you buy is going to want dry seasoned wood. If you have lots of hard wood those can take up to two years to season. If you're cutting it this summer and plan on burning it this winter I can almost guarantee you will not be happy.

 

[begreen]

In value stoves look at Englander (Summer's Heat) Drolet and Century. Expect to lose about a third of the heat created to outdoors in the basement, even after it is sealed up. That means burning 3 cords for 2 cords of heat.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

If you plan on heating tihs winter with wood. I hope you already have your wood split and stacked.. if not you better start like last week as you may not have seasoned wood to burn.. my guess is your going to need at least 4 cords to get you through the winter
Do you have wood ready???

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Also. I think your selling your self short with a 7hr burn time.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You mentioned the house as drafty. That'll be an issue whichever stove, or source of heat you choose.

My advice isn't as fun, or sexy as running out and buying a stove, but I'd fix the housing envelope first. You may not have any insulation! Something as simple as sealing cracks with a caulk gun can yield huge dividends.

While sealing the house, work on getting the wood gathered and drying. Choose your stove and chimney. Keep piling wood.

Better insulation means a smaller, less expensive stove. It also means lugging less wood around. Maybe most important, it means more comfort. Your back will thank you!

 

[Zamfir]

Thank you to everyone. I will look closely at all stoves suggested. As far as being drafty, it is mainly the basement door and windows, and it will be an easy fix with new stripping and some caulking. I figured I would see how my stove burns first, in case the leaks act as a poor man's fresh air intake. Lolo
Also, I've known from the start that I may have to rely alot on propane backup for the 1st couple years, this website does a really good job of emphasizing the importance of seasoned wood. I am lucky , I have a native American living next door to me that really knows his wood. He's not up on the current burner technology, but he sure knows his wood. He actually knows if it's ready by smell. Hes been showing me how to collect the right deadfall, and what is too seasoned, or rotting compared what is actually ready too burn now. I know the 1st year I'll be testing every piece I burn, and I'll have to burn alot of smaller stuff .I have about 4 chords of 4-6 inch deadfall That he says is ready to burn, and for example, I have a giant Birch in the front woods that is leaning dead fall that he said is probably seasoned. That 1 tree is about 5 chords.Thank you to this site for preparing me for this. And to eatenbylimestone, I will look into at least covering my basement walls with blueboard. That shouldn't break the bank.
Thanks again, I really value, each opinion

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[begreen]

Effectively you will be heating almost 2000 sq ft. For longer burntime look at 3 cu ft stoves. With the heat loss from basement heating and the cold winters in UP you'll want the longer burn times and reserve power of a larger stove. In milder weather just burn partial loads and maybe just one fire a day in the morning. The Englander 30NC provides a lot of bang for the buck. There's a ton of info on these stoves here.

 

[Zamfir]

Yes begreen, thank you, the englander nc30 seems like the one. But, the summers heat nc30 is almost 1400$ at lowes and the englander nc30 is only 899$ at home depot. I have a very long drive to home depot, I'm much closer to lowes, how could they be that far apart.
But if i have to i'll go on a road trip to save 500$ WOW. But lowes does have a model for about 900 that seems similar but is not the nc30. Or am i completely confused?

 

[begreen]

That's crazy pricing at Lowes, seems like a glitch. Late in the season they sell new for around $750 as the stores clear them out to make way for spring inventory.

Could be ordered direct, this one has some blemishes but at a good price
(broken link removed to https://amfm-energy.myshopify.com/products/50tnc30-epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove-2250302201)

Lowes does have the 50SSW02 at a more reasonable price. That would also do the job well.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-2400-sq-ft-Wood-Stove/999918850

 

[Zamfir]

Thanks for clearing that up begreen, I can't find anything about the 50SSWO2 on the englander site, but from what I can see, the difference is that it's a little bigger than the nc30..listed at 2000 to 3000 Sq ft., and also says 22 inch logs instead of 20 inch for nc30.
So to hold my hand a little more , lol, which would you get of the 2. The blemish model that you sent from amfm energy would be 900 delivered to the curb. The 50SS
WO2 from lowes would be 1015$ for home delivery, which I'm assuming also means curbside. Cosmetic blemishes don't bother me. Thanks again kind sir.

 

[Michael Sean]

Thanks for clearing that up begreen, I can't find anything about the 50SSWO2 on the englander site, but from what I can see, the difference is that it's a little bigger than the nc30..listed at 2000 to 3000 Sq ft., and also says 22 inch logs instead of 20 inch for nc30.
So to hold my hand a little more , lol, which would you get of the 2. The blemish model that you sent from amfm energy would be 900 delivered to the curb. The 50SS
WO2 from lowes would be 1015$ for home delivery, which I'm assuming also means curbside. Cosmetic blemishes don't bother me. Thanks again kind sir.

The 50ssw02 at lowes is $899.99 right now from just doing a quick search. Depending on what tax is in your state (here in Kentucky it's 6%) that's $953.99. They are also having a 10% off sale right now or you could just go pick up a change of adress from the post office and get 10% off. Either way you could get it for the same price or cheaper.

 

[kennyp2339]

This can go 2 ways - Optimally a wood furnace in the basement with a duct run in the basement with a few floor registers plus an additional register hole in the basement would work excellent, you would be guaranteed heat in the basement for warm floors, plus heat in specific rooms on the main living level.
A stove in the basement like a Englander NC30 can work, but you will also need to tighten up the house, it doesn't have to be very expensive, using low expansion foam, spray around your sill plate, pop door and window trim off and spray in there, go up to the attic and spray area's where the sheet rock hits your main beams, replace your leakiest windows and doors (only do a couple at a time of money is tight, start with the worst) add additional insulation to the attic.
Imagine right now with your place in its current condition that you have due to all the air leaks 4 open windows, by spraying the sill with foam you close 1 window, by air sealing around the attic, window & door jams your results act as if another window was closed. Little bits add up, then you start replacing windows with more efficient ones and you save more.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for clearing that up begreen, I can't find anything about the 50SSWO2 on the englander site, but from what I can see, the difference is that it's a little bigger than the nc30..listed at 2000 to 3000 Sq ft., and also says 22 inch logs instead of 20 inch for nc30.
So to hold my hand a little more , lol, which would you get of the 2. The blemish model that you sent from amfm energy would be 900 delivered to the curb. The 50SS
WO2 from lowes would be 1015$ for home delivery, which I'm assuming also means curbside. Cosmetic blemishes don't bother me. Thanks again kind sir.

The 30NC is a tried and true economy workhorse. There are dozens of them with threads about it here. The 50SSW02 is about the same size, but a much newer model. It is taller (less stooping to load), has a bigger window and has easy hearth requirements. The only negative reported so far is that the hinge side of the door doesn't seal well for some folks. Not sure if they have fixed this yet. I would check by doing the dollar bill test on the door all the way around before purchasing. One person reported that he replaced the door gasket with the next size up (1"?) and that fixed the issue for him.

It is odd and annoying that Englander still doesn't list these new model stoves. Englander appears to have some sort of OEM agreement with the big box stores. They list parts for the new models, but no sales info.

 

[Zamfir]

Ok, great advice everyone, thank you.And thanks again begreen, I'm leaning towards the 50ssw02, the only problem is that I'll have to order it before I can check the gasket since they don't have any in stock at my lowes. But if there's a problem, I just won't accept it. Lowes is usually very good in the customer service dept. But, I also like the proven track record of the nc30.lolol.
I am also very curious as to why lowes, AND the manufacturer are being vague about the newer models.It's a little scary.

 

[begreen]

In the winter the stores are filled with stoves including the 50SSW01 and SSW02. At this time of year they want winer inventory gone and it's as if stoves didn't exist. In a couple months the cycle will reverse and repeat.

 

[Michael Sean]

The 30NC is a tried and true economy workhorse. There are dozens of them with threads about it here. The 50SSW02 is about the same size, but a much newer model. It is taller (less stooping to load), has a bigger window and has easy hearth requirements. The only negative reported so far is that the hinge side of the door doesn't seal well for some folks. Not sure if they have fixed this yet. I would check by doing the dollar bill test on the door all the way around before purchasing. One person reported that he replaced the door gasket with the next size up (1"?) and that fixed the issue for him.

Speaking of the gasket not being as tight as it should be. I just got my 50SSW02 stove installed and went ahead and did the dollar bill test. The hinge side and the bottom was a little loose. I just adjusted the hinges slightly and it fixed the issue.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Seems they just started offering end of season discounts on the 50SS last spring . I have some experience with both of these having both of these stoves the NC30 and the 50 SS actually in the same house. I replaced the NC 30 in the large open living room and moved it to the basement. THE 50 is a much better looking stove with that huge fireview door that earns it a place in the living room. This season i will be installing a brand new chimney as the old one had no flue liner at all and i knew i was taking a chance. IIl find out this coming heating season if the 50 lives up to the 30s performance. But the few times iv have it burning (the 50)it seemed to throw more heat than the 30 .

 

[lsucet]

Speaking of the gasket not being as tight as it should be. I just got my 50SSW02 stove installed and went ahead and did the dollar bill test. The hinge side and the bottom was a little loose. I just adjusted the hinges slightly and it fixed the issue.

I have both and I don't know why they didn't put adjustable hinges like the Madison on the w02.