Stove steel thickness

[bholler]

So now, let’s take a cold chimney and light the hottest fire we can get in the stove. Absolutely brilliant. Sort of like going to the local college town and watching all those
mart young kids walking out in front of cars. Yeah...they’re smart alright.

Don’t take my words out of context, Ben. Let’s keep it real. I’m not talking about a stove that has went out and warm air goes up the chimney when the door is opened. I’m talking about a cold house, stove, and chimney, not luke warm. And don’t tell me taking the time to warm up a stove and “any “ chimney slowly, metal or otherwise, is going to cause a creosote issue one time or ten times. Even when I burned wood, my stove was started and rarely went out for the year. Get it up to temp, then burn hotter than normal cruise for a 1/2 to an hour each day and there won’t be any issues if the system is built right, clay or not. That’s with older stoves. Should be less issues with these new “cleaner burning “ stoves just by design. I don’t see an issue either way. Maybe you do because most people you deal with are not “regular” forum type people.

My point was the manuals mention quick and hot fires to prevent smoke but they don’t go on and tell the entire story, that a really cold piece of cast iron can crack if you expose it to high heat too fast. I see these cracked stovesnalo the time, cast iron and soapstone. Only two ways they can crack, thermal stress fatigue fro cold to hot or over-firing. Otherwise if heated carefully they can take whatever you throw at them. The same reason antique cast iron stove collectors make casting repairs to cracks by cooling them slowly over a 24 hour period. They often slow heat them even before welding. Those repair methods alone tell you how to care for the castings, by slowly heating and slowly cooling. Natural stone or clay needs the same thing. Steel, somewhat of a different animal. I don’t for a second think I need to tell you these things. You know them.


At least one manufacturer has went to great trouble to deal with expansion and contraction of their stoves to eliminate metal fatigue between the outer shell and inner firebox and to prevent the noises associated with expansion and contraction. Apparently they thought it important enough an issue to deal with it.

Never said those pencil pushers didn’t minimize creosote...I said they don’t tell the entire story, and they don’t. We’ll agree to disagree. I know we’re not talking specifically about cast iron or natural materials, but a cast iron stove, like a good cast iron skillet, both should last more than a single persons lifetime with some common sense approach to proper care and proper heating and cooling...and it’s really that simple.

Nothing in this thread is talking about cast stone or clay. We are talking about welded plate steel stoves.

 

[Hoytman]

Doesn’t matter they crack as well. I have one in my garage that is cracked, I’ve seen many on CL for sale, and many WS IS’s cracked. Some are caused from stress points by design and some are not. Some are purely metal fatigue. Not long ago seen the side of Fisher blowed out, top to bottom from a crack. The point is, whether it’s stoves, cast iron or carbon steel cookware, steel bridges and bridge expansion joints, or concrete, it all needs to expand in a controlled manor. Only way to get that is to slow expansion and contraction whether it’s by natural means of daily temp swings or the extremes of man induced heating and cooling. You either account for that expansion and contraction via clearances or slow heating and cooling, at times super slow depending on what is being discussed.



That video really is sad, whether it a cast stove or a small steel stove, you and I both know that stove will never last like it should being fired in such conditions as that. It is this context that my thoughts have been today. After watching this video again I see that they started a top down fire and that is to their benefit. It’s conditions like this, a stove stuffed full of wood and started from the bottom with lots of paper that I don’t like. Still a good way to ruin fire bricks prematurely.

 

[bholler]

Doesn’t matter they crack as well. I have one in my garage that is cracked, I’ve seen many on CL for sale, and many WS IS’s cracked. Some are caused from stress points by design and some are not. Some are purely metal fatigue. Not long ago seen the side of Fisher blowed out, top to bottom from a crack. The point is, whether it’s stoves, cast iron or carbon steel cookware, steel bridges and bridge expansion joints, or concrete, it all needs to expand in a controlled manor. Only way to get that is to slow expansion and contraction whether it’s by natural means of daily temp swings or the extremes of man induced heating and cooling. You either account for that expansion and contraction via clearances or slow heating and cooling, at times super slow depending on what is being discussed.



That video really is sad, whether it a cast stove or a small steel stove, you and I both know that stove will never last like it should being fired in such conditions as that. It is this context that my thoughts have been today. After watching this video again I see that they started a top down fire and that is to their benefit. It’s conditions like this, a stove stuffed full of wood and started from the bottom with lots of paper that I don’t like. Still a good way to ruin fire bricks prematurely.

Stoves have been run like that since the first ones were invented. It it is designed and constructed well to deal with expansion differential it will hold up fine as they have for many years before.

 

[Highbeam]

I sure as heck blast the heck out of my ice cold (well 50) degree nc30 to get max heat in min time. No cracks. I don’t think these things are as fragile as some folks do but then I have only used fairly modern stoves.

 

[EbS-P]

I was expecting them to light it a full load of kindling off with a blow torch. Appeared similar to every top down fire I have started. Their wood stove practices get a thumbs up from me.

 

[Woody Stover]

not allowing for differences in expansion rates

OK, you're not talking about heating a stove up with the air wide open (which actually would cause more exaggerated differences in expansion rates between different areas of the stove.) Then I guess you are talking about the design and construction of the stove? If so, what should we be looking for in stove construction that would be a potential problem with regard to expansion rates?
PE's "floating firebox" design seems logical to me. The first thing I noticed was that the brick retainer rails aren't welded to the sides of the box, allowing it to expand and contract more freely and with less stress. I imagine the box wouldn't have to be as thick in this case, but I think they still have 3/16" sides, IIRC.

 

[bundy150]

Great discussion! Newer stoves all seem to have catalytic combustors or secondary air tubes or both to increase the burn. More heat means more stress on materials to me. What materials or combination of materials handle the stresses best? Steel of various thickness, cast iron, soapstone, firebrick, stainless and other materials in various combinations all get used and are touted by stove makers as to which is best. Which method and use of materials is best for heating, durability, reliability or aesthetics ?? What about cost?

 

[bholler]

Great discussion! Newer stoves all seem to have catalytic combustors or secondary air tubes or both to increase the burn. More heat means more stress on materials to me. What materials or combination of materials handle the stresses best? Steel of various thickness, cast iron, soapstone, firebrick, stainless and other materials in various combinations all get used and are touted by stove makers as to which is best. Which method and use of materials is best for heating, durability, reliability or aesthetics ?? What about cost?

Plate steel is the cheapest and if they design it properly they last a long time. Cast can be slightly more durable but usually about the time a plate steel stove will be wearing out a cast stove will need to be disassembled and recemented or regasketed. Typically 20 to 30 years. I am really not a fan of stone stoves

 

[bundy150]

The steel plate stove that I have seen crack almost all are cracking where the bends are made. Is 5/16" or 3/16" better for the bends? Nice and smooth, looks good, but in my experience the welded sections seem to hold up better.I don't have any soapstone experience but most who do seem to love them and wouldn't go back.

 

[bholler]

The steel plate stove that I have seen crack almost all are cracking where the bends are made. Is 5/16" or 3/16" better for the bends? Nice and smooth, looks good, but in my experience the welded sections seem to hold up better.I don't have any soapstone experience but most who do seem to love them and wouldn't go back.

I don't think I have ever seen one crack at a bend. I see it at welds or inside corners usually around the door. Occasionally at the outlet

 

[Highbeam]

The steel plate stove that I have seen crack almost all are cracking where the bends are made. Is 5/16" or 3/16" better for the bends? Nice and smooth, looks good, but in my experience the welded sections seem to hold up better.I don't have any soapstone experience but most who do seem to love them and wouldn't go back.

I pushed over 30 cords through a very pretty stone stove. I sold it and bought a similarly expensive plate steel stove with much higher performance. I wouldn’t go back to stone.

 

[Mark N MO]

I have nothing to add to this discussion, I just really wanted to copy and paste this:

"Even the mighty Buck 91 had only 1/4" box, top and sides."

Mighty Buck 91. Kinda has a ring to it. Carry on.