Stove versus insert

[Brokk]

I have good size fireplace in my kitchen (30"x30" opening) with a depth that changes from 16+ at the bottom to about 14 at the top. It curves to get smaller on the sides and in the back. The fireplace works great. It's an old victorian house and they knew how to build these things well back then.

So here is my quandry. I want to put something more efficient in that spot. I don't want to have anything sticking out very far, as then it would be a risk of the kids touching it and getting burnt, as well as losing kitchen space, as well as the floor changes and becomes more "combustible" once you get outside the fireplace proper. Naturally I was thinking an insert was the way to go. I had an old chimney expert take a look and he said that I would be better off with a nice stove in there (he recommended Vermont Castings). Then I can always pull it back out and resell it later if it doesn't work out for me. Too many bad installations of inserts ruin the fireplaces they are put into.

I checked vermost castings and their smallest duchmaster stove seems to fit the bill, but reviews on-line about it say it has too many parts that can break/warp and that the parts are too hard to come by. The recommendation is to steer clear of this model. Not to mention it's side loading and I would have trouble using that door once I put it inside the fireplace.

So this boils down to a "what stove should I buy" sort of question. I want something that will generate good heat (preferably with a fan to push it out), with a low enough profile that it won't stick out of my fireplace. We are just trying to warm up a large kitchen mostly. So it doesn't need to be all-powerful, 3000 sq ft heating source. It's supplimentary to the existing heat sources already in the kitchen to cut down on the natural gas heating bills while keeping us warm and cozy.

Recommendations?

Brokk...

 

[branchburner]

I agree to avoid VC and suggest looking at the smaller Jotuls.

 

[titan]

Sounds like a good spot for a rear-venting Woodstock.

 

[Fsappo]

Hearthsone makes a model "Homestead" that is designed for hearth applications. The small Jotul suggestion is a good one also. Having worked on VC stoves in the past, they do have tons of small parts that tend to end up being a pain in the neck to tinker with

 

[Brokk]

Do both of you agree to avoid the insert and go for a stove? I'm looking at Jotul and they have both.

 

[Fsappo]

Not really. I'd look at a flush mounted insert as well. Instead of a chimney sweep, I'd have a local hearth retailer that I felt comfortable with stop by and give their opinion

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I have a good deal of experience with relatives who have inserts. I liked tham well enough.

Then I got a some stove experience. Much more of a good thing. more heat, no fan noise/hassle.

I do have a 3/4" thick marble and fiber board hearth extension that protrudes about 38" from the front of the fireplace. The front of the stove sticks out about 18" from the front of the fireplace.

I wouldn't go any smaller than the Jotul f3c... A large insert might be better if the heath extension is a deal breaker. Most folks err in picking a stove that's too small.

An old chimney may well accept a rigid liner easily also. I like my rigid liner for the ease in cleaning, simple install, and thicker walls.

ATB,
Mike

 

[Brokk]

He wasn't a sweep. He was a mason who's been building, modifying and repairing chimneys for about 50 years. I was asking him about installation rather than putting in a missing damper we were planning to have done. The Jotuls look nice, though a bit pricy. I like the insert that has an adjustable depth. That would fit perfectly for mine. I'll check out Hearthstone now...

 

[Brokk]

I've double checked my FP size. In the Jotul line I can fit the F 100 stove (barely), or the C 450 insert (comfortably). The insert potentially puts out about 50% more heat than the stove but it also costs 150% more for the unit. I assume the recommendation is for the insert, since reviews seem to indicate that the F 100 doesn't put out enough heat to really be useful.

 

[Summertime]

I have a insert and think it's fine but my buddy has a soapstone stove and throws way more heat than mine and there are no blowers to listen to. If I had the room I would have a freestanding stove as well.

 

[Brokk]

So looking at stoves and inserts for Jotul, Hearthstone and Woodstock, there is only one that is definitely a good fit for size. The Jotul C 450 insert. The stoves all tend to be too "deep", which would require me to push them out into the room, which means changes to the floor and worrying about clearance to the mantle. It also increases risk of my small children accidently coming into contact with the hot stove. Once you get a stove small enough to fit into that space, you are also talking about a very small burning area, which decreases heat output as well. So the stove being a better choice for heat, is overbalanced by the space restriction.

Any other manufacturer recommendations? (for stove or insert)

 

[firefighterjake]

I think you're wise to have done some homework with regards to makes and models. For me personally, I think an insert can look and perform pretty well in an existing fireplace . . . but you may have to deal with the noise from a blower and not have as much exposed metal radiating heat outwards. The plus is that an insert may take up less space and to be honest I think they look pretty sharp. That said, I like simple things (since I am a simple man) and a free-standing stove without a blower is pretty simple.

You've listed out some good brands . . . quite honestly the three brands I really like . . . but I know in terms of inserts folks have also had good luck with other brands such as Quadrafire, Harman, Regency and Napoleon.

 

[Brokk]

Thanks for the additional makers. I looked through them all and unfortunately even their smallest inserts are too large for my space. Although I did love the fireplace from Quadrafire. That looked amazing.

 

[fredarm]

I hesitate to add this recommendation in light of the problems that some seem to be having with their Pacific Energy Summits, but look at the PE Vista insert or Super insert (no-one has reported problems with those as far as I know). The Vista will definintely fit and the Super might fit. They are steel, not cast iron, but if the cost of the Jotul is a concern, the PE inserts will be less.

 

[Brokk]

The Vista insert looks like it will barely fit. I wish the insert tapered a little to better accomadate the tapering of the fireplace. As it is, I fear it will be off by 1/2 here or there. How much do they run?