Stuck on wood stove decision

[syrenson]

Greetings All,

I live in Rhode Island and I am currently in the process of renovating my 1200 sq.ft. basement to become an open-concept living space (living room / bedroom) for my partner and I. When we bought the house there was a giant clunker of a wood stove down there which was completely out of code. To keep my home insurance company happy I had the original stove removed but left the hearth. Now that we are renovating my first inclination was to spruce up the original hearth and install a new wood stove as our primary source of heat for the downstairs. As I've gone further down the rabbit hole as a potentially new wood stove owner I've ran into a few conundrums that I'm hoping you fine folks might be able to shine some light upon.

1.) Given the money that we are already putting into the renovation, I was hoping to avoid spending $3k on a brand new wood stove. I found a completely renovated/rebuilt 1979 Vermont Castings Resolute (I) that one of our local stores is selling for $1,300. I really fell in love with the look of this little stove, but as I am doing more and more research I'm finding out that apparently stoves built prior to 1988 tend to burn very "dirty" and be very inefficient. My question is whether this rule applies across the board, or is it possible that we could get minimal smoke and an efficient burn out of this little stove with good burning practices (seasoned wood, avoiding smoldering, etc.)

Here's a link to photos of the refurbished VC Resolute: https://goo.gl/photos/8PnarXy4j8XgXEJ37

2.) I am an ocean engineer with a shameless empathy for all matters pertaining to the environment. In fact, a large portion of my day-to-day job involves environmental impact mitigation. This said, I'm finding myself caught in the web of countless articles on the Internet (including those written by the American Lung Association and the EPA) that turn a nose down at all forms of wood burning. If you read enough of these articles one can convince themselves that using a wood stove is a conscious commitment to exposing your family to dangerous air pollutants in the home (risking respiratory diseases, cancer, etc.) at worst, and at best, giving a big middle finger to mother nature. I obviously haven't fully given in to the hype or else I wouldn't be still considering the wood stove, but it would be disingenuous to say this issue hasn't weighed heavy on my mind. So my question here is how other environmentally conscious folks who use wood burning stoves regularly make peace with this.

If all else fails, we have natural gas to fall back on as a heating source in the basement as baseboard radiators are already present. This said, I had really hoped to enjoy both the ambiance created by a wood burning stove as well as the savings on my gas bill. Thank you in advance for your time and input.

Kind Regards,

Concerned Wood Stove Newbie

 

[BIGChrisNH]

My opinion is, all heat sources carry a negative side to them if you look close enough. Oil, it goes without saying has lots of problems environmentally (I'm sure I don't have to tell you that). I'm sure others do too. In my mind at least, wood is a renewable resource that gives me a lot of pleasure to burn. I mean, you probably know better than me, but if you rely on electric heat, your probably causing coal to be burned somewhere right? Not sure about propane, but that must have an environmental impact too. I say burn the wood and enjoy!

 

[RobbieB]

Here in CA you can't buy a new home with any kind of solid fuel appliance anymore. No pellets either. No EPA phase 2 or cats. Nothing. Not in a new home. You can DIY of course and you can buy an older home with a FP or stove, but not a new one.

And then there are the numerous "no burn days", look first or be fined. We have days of stagnant air here in the winter where the smoke just hangs on the ground and it's not good to breath.

But I like a little fire now and then so I bought a small efficient EPA stove. I't better than the open fireplace and I don't burn on "no burn days", I don't heat my house with wood I have a nat gas furnace for that.

So, I would go with a small EPA stove and get a blower kit so you can extract the most heat you can.

 

[bholler]

I was hoping to avoid spending $3k on a brand new wood stove. I found a completely renovated/rebuilt 1979 Vermont Castings Resolute (I) that one of our local stores is selling for $1,300.

Get a new stove they work much better than the old ones. And there is no need to spend 3k for one there are man very good stove that cost quite a bit less than that. And btw I would stay far away from the newer vermont castings stoves. They have some pretty serious durablilty issues

 

[syrenson]

Get a new stove they work much better than the old ones. And there is no need to spend 3k for one there are man very good stove that cost quite a bit less than that. And btw I would stay far away from the newer vermont castings stoves. They have some pretty serious durablilty issues

Thank you everyone for the replies thus far. Given the above comment, and at the risk of asking the “Which new stove to buy?" question (yes, I read the preamble to this section of the forum), could someone recommend a new EPA stove for heating a 1200 sq.ft. space that runs $1500 or less? Thus far everything that I'm finding seems to run $2500+. Once again, your time and input is greatly appreciated!

 

[begreen]

Your local prices are going to vary, but my first choice would be the Pacific Energy Super 27. That costs about $1700 locally. But there are several stoves in the under $1500 range that would work. Look at stoves in the 1.8 to 2.0 cu ft range. This includes stoves by Englander (aka Summer's Heat), Drolet, Century, True North and Heatilator.

Some stoves have tougher installation requirements than others. Are there any complicating factors like close clearances, short chimney, etc.?

 

[Simonkenton]

Newer VC stoves are crap.
However, years ago, they were the best wood stove on the market. And that 1979 Vermont Castings Resolute is one such stove.
I had the same stove, mine was a 1988 model, for 6 years, sold it with the house it was in.
My mom has the same model stove and she burns it regularly.

It really is a great, classic wood stove. Good looking, easy to light, can be burned with the doors open, they have a little screen that fits over the open door. I would give serious consideration to buying that classic Vermont Castings stove.
It is not as efficient as a new stove but it is pretty efficient, beautiful to look at while burning and puts out lots of heat.

 

[syrenson]

Your local prices are going to vary, but my first choice would be the Pacific Energy Super 27. That costs about $1700 locally. But there are several stoves in the under $1500 range that would work. Look at stoves in the 1.8 to 2.0 cu ft range. This includes stoves by Englander (aka Summer's Heat), Drolet, Century, True North and Heatilator.

Some stoves have tougher installation requirements than others. Are there any complicating factors like close clearances, short chimney, etc.?

Thanks again for the replies! --- I had our chimney sweep (who also sells and installs wood stoves) to come out and inspect everything a few days ago before construction for the basement renovation begins. From what I understand, we are in a pretty optimal situation for a wood stove. We have a large hearth sitting on a cement floor. The wall behind the stove will be constructed from whatever non-combustable stone or tile material we choose and attached to the cement foundation. The flue behind the stove goes directly into our (currently unused) masonry chimney, which will get a fresh liner at the time of the install. The chimney sweep also noted that we should be able to use a single-wall pipe without a problem given the stove sizes that we are considering.

I spent a bit more time researching stove options and at this point I'm of two minds (and extremes)

1.) Pay the $1300 for the refurbished VC Resolute (mentioned in my original post) as a starter stove with the intention of upgrading to a newer/more efficient stove in a few years after we recover some cash from the renovation .... or

2.) Pony up the extra cash and buy a Woodstock Fireview as it seems to check all of the boxes and has great reviews on the forum. Provided I can get one before the sale is over or they run out (if such a thing even occurs?), they are currently available for $2,600 (usually $3,250) through the manufacturer. Living in Rhode Island, the three hour drive to pick it up to save on shipping costs also wouldn't be out of the question.

So I could spend half as much with the intention of upgrading later, or spend twice as much with the hopes that I won't have to upgrade for a very long time. I should mention that aesthetics are also somewhat driving me toward one of these two choices. I really love the ornate look of both the classic VC cast iron and the newer Woodstock soapstone stoves.

I will also give the other suggested brands/stoves a look. Any additional thoughts or opinions are very much welcome!

 

[Poindexter]

Wood burning = no fossil carbon released to the atmosphere and no nuclear waste created.

Done.

I got nothing for sugestions ~$2k. I live way north of you and run my $4k stove 9-10 months of the year.

 

[bholler]

That old vc was a great stove in its day. I think best on the market may be a stretch but very good. But $1300 for a 40 year old stove is out of line.

If you like the cast look you arent getting anything under $2000 new. But look at jotuls hamptons blaze king ashfords and others i am sure.

 

[Simonkenton]

As much as I love the old VC I agree the price is high. That stove cost $950 in 1988.
Talk him down to one Grand and buy it!
I will bet that after one winter of use, you will not want to replace it.

 

[begreen]

We bought our Resolute in 1979 for around $450 retail. It was a great stove, but I would not pay $1300 for it today unless it was 100% restored. That means lots of new parts. It is a nice stove and we really liked it, but modern stoves burn much cleaner and with greater efficiency. And modern stoves offer a nice fireview, something the Resolute was never good at.

 

[syrenson]

As much as I love the old VC I agree the price is high. That stove cost $950 in 1988.
Talk him down to one Grand and buy it!
I will bet that after one winter of use, you will not want to replace it.

Thankfully they agreed to hold the classic VC for me for a week so I could do a bit more homework. For what it's worth, the $1300 also includes a 1 year warranty. They rebuild/refurbish them in-house so I suppose that's their equivalent of a "manufacturer's warranty" on the refurbished stove. He mentioned that he could probably knock $50 off the price at the time of purchase. I'll call tomorrow just to get a feel for whether there is any more wiggle room on the price.

EDIT: It is my understanding that it is a complete refurbish/rebuild. The inside, which was sandblasted, looks nearly as clean as a new stove. Looks, of course, can be deceiving and I have zero experience with these stoves but it looks extremely clean.

 

[begreen]

Sandblasting is cosmetic. It's far more important for the working and wearing parts to be replaced.

 

[Woody5506]

That first fire will make that sandblasted metal look 10 years old. Sandblasting is not cosmetic, it prevents further metal deterioration but if it's left uncoated then it is pointless. Agreed that for a stove the parts should be replaced.

My understanding is that burning wood for heat is a fairly neutral and green heating method. Besides being renewable, when wood rots and breaks down it releases the same amount of co2 and burning it just speeds the process. Also consider the amount of co2 taken out of the air by the tree when the it was living. I doubt it's 100% green or neutral but neither is any heating method. It is however the most fun heating method.

 

[syrenson]

Thanks again for all of the replies! I'm going to give the local store a call today to get more specific details about what has been replaced versus reconditioned in the refurbished 79 VC Resolute. I'll report back later in the day.

I'm also going to give Woodstock a call to get some more information on their stoves.

 

[sportbikerider78]

If you already have NG, you will likely see very little real savings over wood. I heat with oil so the savings is substantial.

I think that doctors and experts make a ton of health claims based on old data and old tech stoves. When someone walks into my house, you can't even smell any smoke or hint that there is even a woodstove.

 

[Woody5506]

My main source of heat is natural gas. Wood definitely helps me save money on the gas bill. I have a split level so heating is tough, but where the stove is makes it a lot easier because I can keep my thermostat at 65 which keeps the upstairs bedrooms around 68, the downstairs 1st floor at 65 then the lowest level, about half of the entire house, is kept warm with the stove.

My gas bill when I first kept the furnace at 67 was over $200. This month for example with keeping the settings how I described with the stove my bill was $90.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Syrenson- Jotul is having a good sale through Apr 17. Buy one of their stoves (a good one to look at is the F400 Castine if you like the VC cast look), they will send you 100 bucks through a rebate in May. Lots of nice steel stoves for around 1500 bux too. We sell the Castine for 1999 (retails for 2259) in painted black. I too agree that a new modern clean burning stove is the way to go. Pre-Epa stoves are around 40-50 percent heating efficiency, while clean burning cats and non-cats approach 65-70 percent, if good dry seasoned wood is used. Good luck.

 

[sportbikerider78]

My main source of heat is natural gas. Wood definitely helps me save money on the gas bill. I have a split level so heating is tough, but where the stove is makes it a lot easier because I can keep my thermostat at 65 which keeps the upstairs bedrooms around 68, the downstairs 1st floor at 65 then the lowest level, about half of the entire house, is kept warm with the stove.

My gas bill when I first kept the furnace at 67 was over $200. This month for example with keeping the settings how I described with the stove my bill was $90.

To some $3.50/day matters...to others, you can't justify all the work that goes into keeping a stove running. The cost of all utilities varies as wildly as taxes. Some see a big payoff...others not much.

 

[Woody5506]

To some $3.50/day matters...to others, you can't justify all the work that goes into keeping a stove running. The cost of all utilities varies as wildly as taxes. Some see a big payoff...others not much.

Definitely agree. To my benefit I am able to scrounge 100% of my wood and am years ahead. I use a company truck to haul everything so I'm not even paying for diesel. I pay for chainsaws and other equipment that goes into processing everything, but it becomes a hobby to enjoy rather than being a flat out headache of a chore. That For now is the best I can justify my situation.

That brings up another point to the OP...do you have a good source for wood or will you be buying it all? That alone can make or break the cost effectiveness by a lot.

 

[ddddddden]

2.) Pony up the extra cash and buy a Woodstock Fireview as it seems to check all of the boxes and has great reviews on the forum. Provided I can get one before the sale is over or they run out (if such a thing even occurs?). . .

The Fireview is a nice stove. I wouldn't worry too much about missing the sale. One sale ends and another begins. You might want to ask about factory refurbs. Last I heard, a refurbished Fireview was going for less than $2k. You would probably have to get on a waiting list, but buyers picking up from the factory may get priority.

While we're talking refurbs, you should understand that for a cast iron stove, a complete rebuild means tearing it apart and replacing all the gaskets and cement. That's what people are saying they would want the VC to have before they would pay $1k for it. Personally, I would pass on the VC. You can get a steel EPA stove like an Englander or Drolet for less than $1k from Lowe's, Northern Tool, etc. If you want pretty, then $2k+ for cast iron or stone. $1,250 for the VC seems kinda in between pricewise for a stove that's less efficient than any new stove.

BTW, refurbing a soapstone stove means the same thing, but I don't think Woodstock usually does a complete teardown, because their refurbs are customer returns used only 1 season or less.

 

[syrenson]

Hi everyone!

Once again, thanks so much for all of the replies. I am truly grateful for how much time you have all taken in entertaining my questions and furthering my wood burning education. As an update:

I did get some more information on the 79 VC Resolute refurb. It is a 100% rebuild with all new gaskets and cement. The upper and lower firebacks have also been replaced. Original parts have been sandblasted, primed, and painted/coated. As I mentioned before, the price includes a one year warranty.

I looked at a few other brands of more modern stoves (namely, Jotul, Napolean, and Blaze King) but I'm finding that my tastes come back to the Woodstock Fireview where the newer stoves are concerned. My partner and I are considering a ride out to the Woodstock factory (thanks to ddddddden for the tip on the factory refurbs!) since it's only three hours away and there are some really nice sights in between.

On the whole, I am still a bit torn. Even with everything that I have learned here, there is something really special about this refurb Resolute and as an engineer who overthinks everything, sometimes going with my gut is a good thing. That said, I'm going to make a trip out to the local place that is selling the refurb for a second look and possibly make a trip to the Woodstock factory, as previously stated, before pulling the trigger on anything. Whatever the outcome, I look forward to coming back here in the fall or before to resume gaining knowledge from (and hopefully at some point sharing useful knowledge with) you wonderful folks.

Thanks again!

 

[bholler]

I did get some more information on the 79 VC Resolute refurb. It is a 100% rebuild with all new gaskets and cement. The upper and lower firebacks have also been replaced. Original parts have been sandblasted, primed, and painted/coated. As I mentioned before, the price includes a one year warranty.

And it would be a good deal at $700 or $800. They were fantastic stoves for their day. But that day was 40 years ago.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Hi everyone!

Once again, thanks so much for all of the replies. I am truly grateful for how much time you have all taken in entertaining my questions and furthering my wood burning education. As an update:

I did get some more information on the 79 VC Resolute refurb. It is a 100% rebuild with all new gaskets and cement. The upper and lower firebacks have also been replaced. Original parts have been sandblasted, primed, and painted/coated. As I mentioned before, the price includes a one year warranty.

I looked at a few other brands of more modern stoves (namely, Jotul, Napolean, and Blaze King) but I'm finding that my tastes come back to the Woodstock Fireview where the newer stoves are concerned. My partner and I are considering a ride out to the Woodstock factory (thanks to ddddddden for the tip on the factory refurbs!) since it's only three hours away and there are some really nice sights in between.

On the whole, I am still a bit torn. Even with everything that I have learned here, there is something really special about this refurb Resolute and as an engineer who overthinks everything, sometimes going with my gut is a good thing. That said, I'm going to make a trip out to the local place that is selling the refurb for a second look and possibly make a trip to the Woodstock factory, as previously stated, before pulling the trigger on anything. Whatever the outcome, I look forward to coming back here in the fall or before to resume gaining knowledge from (and hopefully at some point sharing useful knowledge with) you wonderful folks.

Thanks again!

The Resolute has a top loading feature that is wonderful in use. I truly miss that, just drop the wood in from a standing position. Now, I get to kneel on the floor in front of the new efficient, clean, stove anywhere from 3-5 times each day as I stuff it full of wood. My knees and back would pick the Resolute 100% of the time.