Suggestions about your spark arrestor cap

[elkimmeg]

It seems now the cold has returned and burning is resumed 24/7, people are having draft problems. The # 1 cause the termination cap clogs up with creosote.
The normal solution is to clean it.

 

[Highbeam]

If I may add... many states do not require the mesh screen at all. If you are forced to choose between no cap and having to climb up every month to clean the cap then perhaps consider removing the mesh or replacing the cap with one that is not equipped with a mesh at all. I like the mesh for the spark arresting capabilities as well as keeping debris and animals out of the flue BUT, there is a value and risk associated with frequent roof walking to clean that mesh.

 

[nshif]

Elk
I beleive here in Ca. ( at least here in the forest ) we are required to have 1/4 inch screen. It may not be code but is a fire Dept thing. Of corse they also suggest we clear all flamable vegatation 100' from a dwelling. I moved here from a desert, I dont want to create another one.

 

[Roospike]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

 

[BrotherBart]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

Sure. Just print out this thread and give it to the insurance company. Tell'em a inspector told ya to do it.

No worries mate.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

vacu stack usues 1" screen. 5/8's is the most common around here. 1/4" cant be a rule anywhere, stoves can hardley draft through a 1/4" screen thats clean!

 

[ozarkjeep]

hell!

after cleaning mine 2 times this season, I am just leaving it off!

 

[slowzuki]

Most listed caps up here don't have a screen, my neighbour added one after the 3 rd bird was removed from the stove. Not much risk of a fire here though, it is -20 to -25 C for the last month and everything is snow covered.

 

[Gunner]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

What about disassembling your cast stove and putting I back together ???

I need a permit and inspection to install a brand NEW stove, but it's OK to break it down into pieces a few years later no questions asked?

"The stove couldn't have caused the fire Officer, I just took it apart last week"

 

[elkimmeg]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

What about disassembling your cast stove and putting I back together ???

I need a permit and inspection to install a brand NEW stove, but it's OK to break it down into pieces a few years later no questions asked?

"The stove couldn't have caused the fire Officer, I just took it apart last week"

I don't know which hat to wear in answering your question that as a home owner the inspector and the mechanic capable in doing a stove rebuild

Ask me this, is it better to have your cap constantly plugged? How safe is it climbing on ice covered ladders to snow covered roofs?
I'm sure the persons questioning me have never broken any laws never exceed speed limits. OK justification ,then why can I burn 2 stoves for 30 plus years in a masonry chimneys
and no code requires a spark guard. There is no UL listing on masonry chimneys and not national code requiring a spark screen. Tell me if the UL listing for the class A chimney and for the spark guard. Can someone please point to me in the code where increasing the screen spacing is in violation or provide the exact UL listing for screen requirements
I willing to be corrected and educated and will admit to being wrong..

I also suspect anything repaired or rebuilt, requires testing and re certification. I guess that's why our society fill land fills. Nothing can be repaired therefore it must be thrown away?

Roo you have to stop repairing stoves. Nobody is certified to change a gasket, but the manufacturer. There is no national recognised stove technician certification, so only the factory assemblers are certified. Everybody is required to send their stoves back for gasket repairs. Doing it on your own voids the listing. Nobody is certified to use a caulking gun with refractory cement. Some dealers may have techs that have been factory trained and certified these are the only ones qualified to change your gaskets? I guess a permit is required to check the gasket replacement and the certification of the installer. Good idea I get more inspections I like that. Nobody here is qualified to make suggestions except me in code issues. I'm not qualified to make any other suggestions other than exact code language. I'm am certified for that. I will no longer provide any input concerning stove rebuilding. I'm not qualified to do so.

Stove performance and draft issues, I can only advise, if they are code related. I am going back and delete my spark guard suggestion. I don't want others to follow suggestions to which I'm not qualified and certified to make, that aught to eliminate most of my post.

Craig do you mind if I start deleting them all? Since stoves are only certified for 5 years, do we all have to send ours back for re-certification after 5 years? Therefore all stoves older than 5
Cannot be used till being re certified? And are permitted to check that they in-fact were re-certified ? Do we need an electrician and a permit to change light bulbs?

BTW then no one is qualified to install a stove themselves? Since there is no llcenced installers program, no stove can be installed by anyone that is not a factory trained certified installer?
If the owner of the company is factory licenced and his worker are not they he would have to be present for every installation. His workers could not do the installation. without his presence to oversee the installation. Therefore I would have to require that stove removed and re-installed under his guidance. I should fail every installation inspection,that was not supervised,or not done by factory licenced installers.

 

[Homefire]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

What about disassembling your cast stove and putting I back together ???

I need a permit and inspection to install a brand NEW stove, but it's OK to break it down into pieces a few years later no questions asked?

"The stove couldn't have caused the fire Officer, I just took it apart last week"

I don't know which hat to wear in answering your question that as a home owner the inspector and the mechanic capable in doing a stove rebuild

Ask me this, is it better to have your cap constantly pluged? How safe is it climbing on ice covered ladders to snow coverd roofs?
I'm sure the persons questiong me have never broken any laws never exceed speed limits. OK justification then why can I burn 2 stoves for 30 plus years in a mansory chimnies
and no code requires a spark guard there is no uul listing on masonry chimnies and not national code requiring a spark screen. Tell me id the UL listing for the class A chomney and for the spark guard Can someone please point to me in the code where increasing the screen spacing is in vilation or provide the exact UL listing for screen requirements
I willing to be corrected and educated and will admit to being wrong..

I also suspect any thing repaired or rebuilt requires testing and recertification. I guess that's why our society fill land fills. Nothing can be repaired therefore it muct be thrown away?

roo you have to stop repairing stoves. Nobody is certified to change a gasket but the manufacturer. There is no national reconised stove technition certification, so only the factory assemblers are certified. Everbody is required to send their stoves back for gasket repairs. Doing it on your own viods the listing. Nobody is certified to use a caulking gun with refactory cement. some dealers may have techs that have been factory trained and certified these are the only ones quaified to change your gaskets? I guess a permit is required to check the gasket replacement and the certification of the installer. Good idea I get more inspections I like that. Nobody here is qualified to make suggestions except me in code issues. I'm not qualified to make any other suggestions other than exact code language. I'm am certified for that. I will no longer provide any imput concerning stove rebuilding. I'm not qualified to do so.

stove preformance and draft issues I can only advise if they are code related I am going back and delete my spark gard suggestion I don't want others to follow suggestions to which I'm not qualified and certified to make, that aught to eliminate most of my post.

Craig do you mind if I start deleting them all? since stoves are only certified for 5 years do we all have to c send ours back for recertification after 5 years? therfore all stoves older than 5
Cannot be used till being recertified? And are permitted to check that they infact were recertified ? Do we need an electrician and a permit to change light bulbs?

BTW then no one is qualified to install a stove themselves?

How about a spell check or is that in your land fill with all your old stoves?

 

[elkimmeg]

I went back and used spell check. Thanks for the reminder. No my old stoves have been recycled , probably bought up by the Chinese

 

[Metal]

Factory built vent cannot be altered or it will lose it's UL Listing. The caps are part of the "system" when they are tested at UL. If you remove part of the screen you change the results of the temperature testing and definitely change the results of the impact testing that is required.

Manufacturers make many different types of caps, you just have to pick which one fits your situation the best. They make special caps for California to meet their codes (smaller screen size), detachable caps that are easier to clean, and for places that have no regulations they make rain caps that have no screen at all.

This is for the UL Listing only, if you don't care about the listing and your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) doesn't care, then do as you please, just be sure to weigh the risks/rewards carefully.

 

[Roospike]

When they built my cap it is in such a way your cant change the screen unless you totally rebuilt it. The screen and top are all one piece. No problems with junk collection on the screen tho.

**************************************

Note to ole' Elk'er: Wasn't giving you a hard time tho i like to put an elbow in your rib once in a wile , was an honest question and thought i should ask.

 

[elkimmeg]

The Ul listing on the ch metal chimnies are not cap exclusive but temperature range safety protection Ul 103 has no mention of caps only protection for the heat range of a potential chimney fire. UL 1777 which requires 1/2 " insulation for zero clearance in less than NFPA211 safe chimnys again has nothing to do with the chimney cap

So how can one void a listing when the only two Ul listings have nothing to do with the chimney cap but heat range and clearance to combustiables. The cap is not needed to meet the UL approval. Is there a separate UL approval for caps? I can't find one nor can I find it in code. UL 103 and 1777 do not need a cap for approval.. ITs the pipe that requires the UL listing

the only code there is is for proper termination cap. protection from the elements. There is no mention of screen size or whether screens are required? Is a proper cap one that protects it from the elements? Do all manufactures include screens to be CA compliant? .Many manufactures only test 18" infront of the loading door to meet Canadian regs only some test their stoves for both USA and Canada. Car manufactures had to modify cars for Ca emmissions. It did not require the rest of the 48 states to comply with CA regs.

Is it ok to suggest making modifications for an accesory piece that is not governed by code or UL approval.?

 

[Roospike]

Thats the information were looking for.

My next question would be to what i have read here before stating that one had to have the same brand pipe and cap to keep the UL listing ..................no mixing of parts.
Code and other are not too clear to me here.

 

[elkimmeg]

according to Smpson Dura vent

M

y next question would be to what i have read here before stating that one had to have the same brand pipe and cap to keep the UL listing ..................no mixing of parts.
Code and other are not too clear to me here.

My next question would be to what i have read here before stating that one had to have the same brand pipe and (EDIT) (fittings) to keep the UL listing ..................no mixing of parts.
Code and other are not too clear to me here.


Again to comply with UL 103HT or Ul 1777 has nothing to do with the cap. Its to do with temp range and clearances Fittings to me are the necessary parts that makeup the system to achieve UL approval meaning bands connectors ceiling boxed ventilated collars elbows. At no point is the Cap requirement mentioned. The drawings show termination cap but list no details about it. Since it is beyond the clearance issue and chimney temp issues it is not needed other that protection from elements There is no indication or literature, that the cap enhances draft and that the cap is part of the draft design. If this were true than no one could install Vacu caps or they would void the chimney UL listing. There are many after market caps.

There is no UL listing for Vacu stack or Windbeater. there is no wording that they void the liner or Chimney UL listings.

 

[Gunner]

So can one modify parts of manufactured chimney and or there parts of and not void the UL listing?

What about disassembling your cast stove and putting I back together ???

I need a permit and inspection to install a brand NEW stove, but it's OK to break it down into pieces a few years later no questions asked?

"The stove couldn't have caused the fire Officer, I just took it apart last week"

I don't know which hat to wear in answering your question that as a home owner the inspector and the mechanic capable in doing a stove rebuild

Ask me this, is it better to have your cap constantly plugged? How safe is it climbing on ice covered ladders to snow covered roofs?
I'm sure the persons questioning me have never broken any laws never exceed speed limits. OK justification ,then why can I burn 2 stoves for 30 plus years in a masonry chimneys
and no code requires a spark guard. There is no UL listing on masonry chimneys and not national code requiring a spark screen. Tell me if the UL listing for the class A chimney and for the spark guard. Can someone please point to me in the code where increasing the screen spacing is in violation or provide the exact UL listing for screen requirements
I willing to be corrected and educated and will admit to being wrong..

I also suspect anything repaired or rebuilt, requires testing and re certification. I guess that's why our society fill land fills. Nothing can be repaired therefore it must be thrown away?

Roo you have to stop repairing stoves. Nobody is certified to change a gasket, but the manufacturer. There is no national recognised stove technician certification, so only the factory assemblers are certified. Everybody is required to send their stoves back for gasket repairs. Doing it on your own voids the listing. Nobody is certified to use a caulking gun with refractory cement. Some dealers may have techs that have been factory trained and certified these are the only ones qualified to change your gaskets? I guess a permit is required to check the gasket replacement and the certification of the installer. Good idea I get more inspections I like that. Nobody here is qualified to make suggestions except me in code issues. I'm not qualified to make any other suggestions other than exact code language. I'm am certified for that. I will no longer provide any input concerning stove rebuilding. I'm not qualified to do so.

Stove performance and draft issues, I can only advise, if they are code related. I am going back and delete my spark guard suggestion. I don't want others to follow suggestions to which I'm not qualified and certified to make, that aught to eliminate most of my post.

Craig do you mind if I start deleting them all? Since stoves are only certified for 5 years, do we all have to send ours back for re-certification after 5 years? Therefore all stoves older than 5
Cannot be used till being re certified? And are permitted to check that they in-fact were re-certified ? Do we need an electrician and a permit to change light bulbs?

BTW then no one is qualified to install a stove themselves? Since there is no llcenced installers program, no stove can be installed by anyone that is not a factory trained certified installer?
If the owner of the company is factory licenced and his worker are not they he would have to be present for every installation. His workers could not do the installation. without his presence to oversee the installation. Therefore I would have to require that stove removed and re-installed under his guidance. I should fail every installation inspection,that was not supervised,or not done by factory licenced installers.

Good points Elk, but you are thinking like a inspector, 30 yr wood burner and hearth.com guru not the average burner.

Most are lucky to have there system cleaned once a year and probably don't even know about cleaning their Cat, or "the dollar bill" test, or what refractory cement even is.

That isn't to say that yourself and many others here aren't capable of doing modifications and or complete rebuilds, but the average person is not.

If the cap is completely plugged after a short period of time I would hazard a guess that something is amiss...the whole system would probably need cleaning anyway.

In regards to stove rebuilding, I was only trying to highlight the fact that we demand people to get permits and inspections but make no mention of someone ripping a stove apart and putting it back together. IMO it is better left to someone with much experience and knowlege of how stoves work, I would not recomend it to the average person.

Like I said many here at hearth.com are capable of doing there own maintanence but we are wood burning nerds, those that enjoy every detail of it. For the other thousands of unregistered visiters that come here, I'd say call an experienced profesional atleast once a year to clean and inspect the whole system, clean or replace the cat, baffles /tubes and gaskets at that time if needed.

 

[TMonter]

He is right, UL listing has nothing to do with the cap or the screen in the cap. The screen is there to prevent hazards with birds/animals plugging a chimney and are usually a local code. I recently modified my rain cap and cut some of the screen out so that it wouldn't plug up quite so fast. My problem is that my flue is perfectly clean but the mesh of the cap and low outside temps allow buildup to happen on the cap quite fast. On my second stove and rain cap with no screen this never happens.

There is far more risk IMO from CO poisoning from a plugged cap, then anything else that can happen from removing/modifying the screen. A clean cap and screen do not signifigantly change the draft characteristics of a fireplace or wood stove so modifying it to be cleaned less often should not cause a fire code infraction or void a UL listing.

This is the rain cap I have:

(broken link removed to http://www.hartshearth.com/productcart/pc/catalog/10460-CollarPlate-Rain-Cap-md.jpg)