Summit not compatible with outside air intake!!! What is wrong with the people at PACIFIC ENERGY?

[69911e]

I bought a PE Summit insert because it offered an outside air intake. I called PE prior to the purchase and discussed what was required to do the installation.
Apparently there are many holes which breach the outer shell and allow cold air to flow to the inside room air when the unit is installed as instructed. I found at least 12 square inches of holes This leads to quite a draft when the stove is off.
I contacted them and they refuse to even send me a picture of the back and underside of the stove so I can determine where all the holes are in the outer casing.
They admitted the manual was incorrect and the insert in not "really" compatible with an outside air intake they would leave this up to the "marketing department". So much for honest and ethics in this world......
Can anyone post pictures? I would like to seal this off without removing it as it is quite heavy.

 

[begreen]

True, the outside air is not a sealed direct connect. It just dumps the air into the plenum below the stove. I'm wondering why the draft. Is the OAK intake on the winward side of the house? Or is there strong negative pressure inside and the OAK is acting as an air relief?

 

[jotulguy]

Is your local code calling for an out side air kit? If not i wouldnt use it. From my experience you are better off with out them most of the time any way. Any other thoughts from the experts on this site?

 

[Highbeam]

Not all stoves offer a sealed intake system with all combustion air routed to the firebox only. Some have a separate secondary air intake, some OAK systems are loose, and some are 100% sealed like my hearthstone. You've got to research before you buy if this really bothers you. I like OAK systems but their value comes with being sealed to the intake. No leaks to room air.

My OAK system pumps air, it supercharges the stove all the time. Not because of wind but elevation change and probably stack effect in the home. I would hate to see this cold air pumped into the living space.

 

[begreen]

I'd run the stove with the OAK blocked off for a fire or two to see if the OAK is really necessary.

 

[69911e]

To answer a few of the above replies.
1: I understand not all units are completely sealed. I did contact PE prior to purchase to discuss and I was assured the unit was fully sealed if installed with the 4"plug not removed and the surround sealed with silicone or suitable sealant.
AFTER the purchase PE's sad excuse for a tech support and customer service then assured me no one from PE would have told me to seal the surround and I was making it up. I them referred them to page 9 on the Summit manual which stated the sealing process.
At that point they did admit the they did tell me the unit was full sealed and the manual was "HIGHLY MISLEADING". I requested at the very least the manual be update to not be misleading; the the Head of engineering said that is up to the marketing department. I asked him if he felt as head of engineering he felt any responsibility to proper representation of the product and he said it will be up the marketing department". I feel like I am dealing with a junk Chinese manufacture. This sad excuse for an engineer also did not understand air will flow from high pressure to low pressure, he believes it will flow from low to high!!

2: The draft is not terrible but still problematic. This would be analogous to opening a window. Without a pressure differential there still would be cold air entering the room. This unit would allow a 2"x3"block to pass from the inside of my house, through the PE insert housing and out my air intake if I were to remove my rodent mesh in 2 different pathways. This is much like just opening a window in the middle of winter.

3: I had sent correspondence to the from the tech support on their website, and called with no response. When I called repeatedly, the head of customer service admitted they were not returning my initial call because they had no solution to the problem. This was an unbelievable corporate attitude I was simply shocked to find this company to have no concern for the customer in the customer service , engineering and administrative level.

4: At this point I requested pictures of all angles of the product. They refused to send me even a photo. Does anyone have a photo of the back and underside of this unit so I can determine if this can be resolved. I currently have the unit installed and don't have access without removing it.

Thanks

 

[RNLA]

wow. I was under the impression that PE was a great company. I also know that every application is different, with it's own difficulties. Sorry to hear they are being tuff to work with... If your not doing a manufactured home install why do you need outside air?

 

[moosetrek]

I had an issue with PE last year and they were excellent, many others seem to have had positive experiences too; I spoke with both sales and engineering staff that gave me a direct phone #, were very knowledgeable, and stood behind the product - sorry to hear you've had a bad run of it, but keep on trying as there are competent and less competent people in every company.

 

[fjord]

Give the guys at PE some slack. Ease back and solve the problem with some calm.

From the years of heating with wood, outside air is uneeded. The only exception is superinsulated, over tight construction which is not recommended now.
There are many engineering and science-based analyses of the use of outside air online.

 

[69911e]

I had an issue with PE last year and they were excellent, many others seem to have had positive experiences too; I spoke with both sales and engineering staff that gave me a direct phone #, were very knowledgeable, and stood behind the product - sorry to hear you've had a bad run of it, but keep on trying as there are competent and less competent people in every company.

I did give multiple people plenty of time to discuss the problem. I ended up with their "head of Engineering" head of customer support (I won't provide their names as I don't think this is appropriate for this forum) telling me their product was not compatible with the outside air and the literature was "highly misleading" but did not intend on changing anything. They then went on to state there is no need for the outside air intake and pressured me to not use it. When asked any intelligent question the only answer the "Engineer" would give is "We have always done it that way, so it must be fine". After this I left a message with the president as there was no one else left to talk to and I did not receive a call back. The problem goes all the way to the top.

I have seen this happen in too many good companies who have lost their original engineers who designed the products. Then either the good engineers leave or grow lazy and stop engineering. The company then is run by the marketing department. I get the feeling this is what has happened to PE as the core firebox appears to be designed excellent as a stove but poorly executed as an insert suitable for outside air intake.

I would have no problem with the company if the manual and my conversations prior to my purchase did not state the sealed nature of the box. The reason I am very disgusted with PE is their admittance the literature is "highly misleading", but has no intention of correcting it. There appears to be no hope for the company unless they get people who care about the customer POST sale instead of just taking in the money........

 

[fjord]

I had an issue with PE last year and they were excellent, many others seem to have had positive experiences too; I spoke with both sales and engineering staff that gave me a direct phone #, were very knowledgeable, and stood behind the product - sorry to hear you've had a bad run of it, but keep on trying as there are competent and less competent people in every company.

I did give multiple people plenty of time to discuss the problem. I ended up with their "head of Engineering" head of customer support (I won't provide their names as I don't think this is appropriate for this forum) telling me their product was not compatible with the outside air and the literature was "highly misleading" but did not intend on changing anything. They then went on to state there is no need for the outside air intake and pressured me to not use it. When asked any intelligent question the only answer the "Engineer" would give is "We have always done it that way, so it must be fine". After this I left a message with the president as there was no one else left to talk to and I did not receive a call back. The problem goes all the way to the top.

I have seen this happen in too many good companies who have lost their original engineers who designed the products. Then either the good engineers leave or grow lazy and stop engineering. The company then is run by the marketing department. I get the feeling this is what has happened to PE as the core firebox appears to be designed excellent as a stove but poorly executed as an insert suitable for outside air intake.

I would have no problem with the company if the manual and my conversations prior to my purchase did not state the sealed nature of the box. The reason I am very disgusted with PE is their admittance the literature is "highly misleading", but has no intention of correcting it. There appears to be no hope for the company unless they get people who care about the customer POST sale instead of just taking in the money........

Another fine example of the "no personal responsibility" education. Got a problem ? Solve it in a mature manner or walk. Or, this "The dog ate my homework" syndrome.

You had, had, the job of authenticating any information. The pretense of knowing everything and yet, nothing is all too common. Outside air ( a.k.a. "OAK" ) for wood stoves has long been demonatrated as unecessary.
Who are you to "give multiple people penty of time to discuss the problem" ? It may help one to feel better to blame a "manual", or a company ---"they told me to get a tattoo; not my fault"---but not reality.

And what is this "good engineer, bad engineer, lazy engineer " assumption ? Where ? Examples ? And: "...did not state the sealed nature of the box" ? Did you question the fuel injection system on your SUV ?

Your solution ? Simple. Return the product. Enjoy your fav beverage. Chill out. Then start over, but this time with due diligence rather than a juvenille rant.

There are of course, many "big corporate" faux pas in consumer industries; this is not one of them. PE is not one of those "big, evil, multi-national corporations".

 

[Highbeam]

wow. I was under the impression that PE was a great company. I also know that every application is different, with it's own difficulties. Sorry to hear they are being tuff to work with... If your not doing a manufactured home install why do you need outside air?

Outside air is not just smart it is required in mobile homes, all homes in Canada, and for the large majority(if not all) of Washington state residents. My personal stove was installed in a stickbuilt home and the outside air plumbing was required in Pierce County. You'll have to do some reading on this common debate but the fact remains that there are many benefits to outside air and no actual negatives.

I hate to post in this thread since it appears to be a rant about a perceived bad experience with a company. Lots of variables. May have been bad staff at PE, may have been a bad customer.

 

[kallsop]

Your solution ? Simple. Return the product. Enjoy your fav beverage. Chill out. Then start over, but this time with due diligence rather than a juvenille rant.

There are of course, many "big corporate" faux pas in consumer industries; this is not one of them. PE is not one of those "big, evil, multi-national corporations".

Corporations are legally responsible for their product to meet their claims for it. Ford sold Mustang Cobras that didn't meet their quoted horsepower specifications. Do you dyno your cars prior to purchase? Why not? When word got out, Ford accepted responsibility and existing customers received compensation in the form of warranty work to make the engine meet the manufacturers claims. That was handled fairly and ethically IMO.

I'm glad the information was posted here, not to bash the corporation but to inform us about the true capabilities of this product and hopefully the way the manufacturer handled it is an isolated incident because it is poor service regardless of the merits.

As far as simply returning the stove and enjoying a beer in front of the now empty fireplace, if the stove has to be shipped it will cost plenty. I'd certainly be frosted if it was on my nickel. I accept paying for my own mistakes.