Switch from Non-EPA Wood Insert to EPA Lopi Insert Worth It?

[kiloforty]

I'm renting a single-story ranch home with a 1983 wood insert which slammer install (no chimney liner). It is a non-EPA stove. I may purchase a 2000 Lopi Freedom Bay insert for $100, and it has a blower. It appears in good condition. I plan to buy some second-hand chimney liner and line the chimney for the new stove.

Do you think it will save me money in the long run if I only live there for a couple years?

I burn wood as my primary heat source from October to March. My other heat source is an electric furnace coupled with a heat pump, but I sure love the wood heat even though I realize the heat pump/electric furnace is probably cheaper.

 

[begreen]

The Freedom Bay is a big insert. Do you need such a large stove? Are you sure it will fit the fireplace? Purchasing a second-hand liner could be dubious. You'll need to be sure it is in great condition. The heat pump in your region is going to be safer and most likely less expensive unless the wood is free and already dry. The Freedom Bay is going to want fully seasoned wood. Most purchased wood is anything but fully seasoned. That could make using the insert a bust for the heating season.

 

[kiloforty]

The Freedom Bay is a big insert. Do you need such a large stove? Are you sure it will fit the fireplace? Purchasing a second-hand liner could be dubious. You'll need to be sure it is in great condition. The heat pump in your region is going to be safer and most likely less expensive unless the wood is free and already dry. The Freedom Bay is going to want fully seasoned wood. Most purchased wood is anything but fully seasoned. That could make using the insert a bust for the heating season.

It's such a good deal for a new-ish EPA stove compared to what I've found. It will fit my fireplace. It's bigger than I need for my 958 sq. ft. home but I figure I can always make smaller fires. I'm just not wanting to use the amount of wood the old stove is going through. What firewood moisture content do you recommend for EPA stoves?

 

[bholler]

It's such a good deal for a new-ish EPA stove compared to what I've found. It will fit my fireplace. It's bigger than I need for my 958 sq. ft. home but I figure I can always make smaller fires. I'm just not wanting to use the amount of wood the old stove is going through. What firewood moisture content do you recommend for EPA stoves?

Regardless of whether you replace it or not the old insert should not be used as it is.

 

[kiloforty]

Regardless of whether you replace it or not the old insert should not be used as it is.

Yeah I’ve tried to tell my buddy/landlord that and he doesn’t seem too concerned. He cleaned it annually and I just swept and cleaned it. He’d never pulled the insert out to clean behind it which concerned me so I did that when I cleaned. I have 2 young kids so safety is important to me.

 

[Pertzbro]

What firewood moisture content do you recommend for EPA stoves?

take a split and bring it to room temperature. Split it in half and test the inside of the fresh split. it should be 20% or less. you could get by with 20-25% but you'll have less heat, dirtier glass and more creosote. Essentially the EPA stoves need super dry wood so they can get super hot so that the secondary combustion can occur that makes it safer, cleaner and hotter.

 

[begreen]

Such a big stove in a small place may always be loafing, but maybe you could reduce the firebox size by adding firebrick on the sides and back. A new $1000, ~2.cu ft insert would be more appropriately sized for the place. Would the landlord consider this investment?

 

[kiloforty]

Such a big stove in a small place may always be loafing, but maybe you could reduce the firebox size by adding firebrick on the sides and back. A new $1000, ~2.cu ft insert would be more appropriately sized for the place. Would the landlord consider this investment?

Thanks for the advice. No, he said I can do what I want but doesn’t have the funds to assist. Do you think I’ll see a big savings on wood consumption with the Freedom vs the smoke dragon?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the advice. No, he said I can do what I want but doesn’t have the funds to assist. Do you think I’ll see a big savings on wood consumption with the Freedom vs the smoke dragon?

Yes you will

 

[begreen]

It will likely burn cleaner and better than the old insert but mainly when the firebox can get hot enough to support secondary combustion.

 

[kiloforty]

It will likely burn cleaner and better than the old insert but mainly when the firebox can get hot enough to support secondary combustion.

Right now I run my current wood stove between 500-700 degrees stovetop temp.

 

[kiloforty]

Yes you will

Would you say around 30% less wood consumption? I see the Freedom is rated as "up to" 70% efficient and I don't know the efficiency of the older stoves.

 

[bholler]

Would you say around 30% less wood consumption? I see the Freedom is rated as "up to" 70% efficient and I don't know the efficiency of the older stoves.

That depends upon how you run it and how dry your wood is.

 

[kiloforty]

That depends upon how you run it and how dry your wood is.

I've been using a moisture meter and the wood I have that's showing 15-18% readings burns like it's above 20%. Lots of sizzling and difficulty getting it going. I believe the meter is accurate, so not sure if those readings are faulty.

 

[begreen]

If the wood is being tested on the outside or end grain the reading will be wrong. For an accurate reading the wood should be around room temp. It then needs to be split in half and tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood. Push the pins in firmly.

 

[kiloforty]

If the wood is being tested on the outside or end grain the reading will be wrong. For an accurate reading the wood should be around room temp. It then needs to be split in half and tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood. Push the pins in firmly.

Okay, thanks!

 

[moresnow]

I've been using a moisture meter and the wood I have that's showing 15-18% readings burns like it's above 20%. Lots of sizzling and difficulty getting it going. I believe the meter is accurate, so not sure if those readings are faulty.

How are you checking moisture on the sizzling splits? What is your procedure from retrieving the split outdoors to when,how and where you check it? Fill us in! Unless I missed it?

 

[kiloforty]

How are you checking moisture on the sizzling splits? What is your procedure from retrieving the split outdoors to when,how and where you check it? Fill us in! Unless I missed it?

I have it stacked in a single row near the side of the house, with a tarp over the top. I insert the pins partially across the grain in multiple points, starting with the middle. I insert the pins into one of the split sides of the wood.

 

[begreen]

I'm betting you'll get a much higher reading inside once it is split open.

 

[kiloforty]

I'm betting you'll get a much higher reading inside once it is split open.

Okay, I'll try that method this evening. Thanks

 

[moresnow]

Fill us in when you get a moment. Curious.

 

[kiloforty]

Fill us in when you get a moment. Curious.

I split a piece that's been in the house for several days and measured inside the fresh split. Measures about 2% higher moisture content than the original split. Originally was 14% but inside measured at 16.5%. I keep reading that 20% or below is considered seasoned, however it seems that is still too much moisture. What are people's thoughts on what the moisture content range should be?

 

[begreen]

Yes <20% is considered seasoned. If you are seeing bubbles and hear sizzling on the end of a split this may not be representative of the typical split. That's an indication of higher inner moisture. Wood will dry out much more rapidly when in the warm low humidity home environment. Take a heavy split off the outdoor pile, split it in half and then bring that in the house. Test it after about an hour.

 

[moresnow]

What are people's thoughts on what the moisture content range should be?

The MC parameters you have been given are correct. 20% and less is not normally a sizzler! Guessing you tested a lucky piece or two or you have a large range of splits with varying MC? Maybe you need to confirm the accuracy of your meter against another one? Worth checking Id say!

 

[Hogwildz]

If the existing insert has never been pulled for cleaning, and it is a true slammer install, you most likely are going to find a ton of crap that has been swept down, but never cleaned out over the years. Not a good thing, and a blaze waiting to happen.