I bought an old 1200sqft farm house last year. The old kent fire tile was shot so I installed and englander stove last fall. I burned from November to mid March. The stove is in an uninsulated basement. I believe through rough calculations that it cut my propane bill in half. But I still paid roughly $130-150/mo with one really cold month where it jumped to $250. I'm trying to figure out if a furnace could be justified for the cost of installing one. This is my first house and I'm not sure if what I'm paying is ridiculous or not. How's the performance of a properly installed one with forced air heat?
Switching from basement woodstove to add on furnace
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Unfortunately that is not a feasible option due to the stone foundation occasionally leaking and the cost to fix the leak would far outweigh the cost of an add on furnace
But the performance of your furnace will suffer massively from an uninsulated basement also. Did you consider moving the stove upstairs?
It is not an option due to my wife. Moving it upstairs and still using the existing flue would place it in the kitchen and she will not allow it and i don't know if I will ever win. Sounds like I'm stuck doing what I'm doing for now
A furnace would do a little better than a free stander. But an uninsulated basement is going to eat up tons of heat.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
A couple thoughts here...
A wood furnace would work...but, you are gonna need to buy a decent furnace...the cheap add-ons don't have insulated cabinets...and all your duct work will need to be insulated too. And you can't use that cheap duct insulation that you see at the big box store either...that doesn't have high enough temp rating to deal with a power outage.
Build false walls in the basement...then insulate that. We looked at an old farm house some years back that had that done...pretty slick...it does eat up a little floor space, but also adds a lot of usable finished room to the house.
What they did was to come in a foot or so off the foundation, framed up walls. There was just enough room between the false wall and the foundation walls to be able to slide through there to get to electrical and plumbing systems, etc. There was ventilation and drainage in there too.
Is there a spot on the ground floor that you could put the stove if there was a chimney there? If so then just put up a class A chimney...either straight up through the roof, or out through the wall if need be...most farm houses are plenty tall enough for the chimney to draft well even with the 90* tee used in the through-the-wall kit.
This is probably the easiest and cheapest option of the 3...
A wood furnace would work...but, you are gonna need to buy a decent furnace...the cheap add-ons don't have insulated cabinets...and all your duct work will need to be insulated too. And you can't use that cheap duct insulation that you see at the big box store either...that doesn't have high enough temp rating to deal with a power outage.
Build false walls in the basement...then insulate that. We looked at an old farm house some years back that had that done...pretty slick...it does eat up a little floor space, but also adds a lot of usable finished room to the house.
What they did was to come in a foot or so off the foundation, framed up walls. There was just enough room between the false wall and the foundation walls to be able to slide through there to get to electrical and plumbing systems, etc. There was ventilation and drainage in there too.
Is there a spot on the ground floor that you could put the stove if there was a chimney there? If so then just put up a class A chimney...either straight up through the roof, or out through the wall if need be...most farm houses are plenty tall enough for the chimney to draft well even with the 90* tee used in the through-the-wall kit.
This is probably the easiest and cheapest option of the 3...
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Sprayfoam the exterior walls of the basement, foam will stick to rock, just make shure it has a thermal barrier paint over it, for your safety. It won't stop water from leaking in, but it will make a huge difference.
Unfortunately the great state of NY has banned the sale of OWB and even though I’ve seen and felt how well they perform it’s quite expensive and I’m not sure the investment would be worth it my eyes if it take 10yeara to pay off. I may look into the insulating first. The previous owner did the rim joists with spray foam.
My basement only leaks during an extremely heavy rain, mainly around the windows. I help alleviate this problem by adding window wells which helped but aren’t perfect. I paid roughly $1200 in propane for heat least year. So I really am looking for options that will return my inevestment in 4-5years. I’m hoping to do better this year as last year I was stuck burning wood that wasn’t seasoned properly and that’s not the case this year
My basement only leaks during an extremely heavy rain, mainly around the windows. I help alleviate this problem by adding window wells which helped but aren’t perfect. I paid roughly $1200 in propane for heat least year. So I really am looking for options that will return my inevestment in 4-5years. I’m hoping to do better this year as last year I was stuck burning wood that wasn’t seasoned properly and that’s not the case this year
Wouldn’t you expect the furnace to overcome the relatively cold basement and still deliver gobs of heat to the living area by just brute force? I would expect much lower losses to the basement from a ducted furnace than from a woodstove in this application and since furnaces generally have much higher output abilities, the end result is a much warmer living space with only somewhat increased wood use.
How long it takes you to recoup the cost totally depends on your price for wood and your ability to put forth the effort to use wood instead of just flipping on the propane heat. With an adequately sized furnace you could eliminate lpg entirely and apply those savings to fuel and/or repaying the installation costs.
I have an uninsulated basement from the mid 19th century, and I can tell you, you will get heat in the living space above. It's not like all your heat is staying in the basement (where it would be lost), but will be removed from the furnace and pushed above. You will get some radiant heat from the furnace in the basement and what's ducted will heat above. Our 1200 sqft basement stays in the upper 60's or more in the wintertime. It's constructed of half block and half boulders, which is by far from being tight.
That's the response I wanted to here. I know I'll lose some heat to the basement but right now I let my stove rip and get the basement to 75 to let air come up the stairs and through the floor to help the propane furnace keep the rest of the house to 66. I have noticed savings on propane but we would like to keep the house a few deg cooler and almost eliminate propane for heating if possible
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
That depends on the furnace and the ductwork. If it is a highquality furnace with an insulated cabinet and the duct work is insulated well then yes it will do much better. But insulating the basement and using the existing stove would give much more bang for the buck.
If it is only leaking around the windows it is probably just a grading issue or even as simple as a gutter issue. Fix that insulate the basement walls and you will easily heat the house with your current stove. As someone who has heated an old house with a stone foundation before and after insulating the basement i can tell you it makes a massive difference.
just for comparison 2200 sf ft 1990 build house - $1400 on lpg last season, didn't close until mid Nov. Flue installed, new NC30 sitting in garage waiting for extra pair of hands to get it in, 11 cord css most will be 3 years old by this season - Pellet stove for basement old 25 series Englander. Got window problems Anderson Casement- working on that. OWB would have been nice but ban on those for new install ( besides too many green stamps up front) No chimney so a wood burner not possible down there unless go out side wall & that would require 30+ feet of insulated class A ($$$$$) &/or permits to build insulated chase.
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
As the others have stated the biggest bang for the buck will be insulation. We are talking a night versus day difference.
I have heated a 3000sf house from an uninsulated basement with coal ,oil, gas and wood for almost 30 years . That said i know i would use a lot less fuel if it were insulated.
ID start with insulating any exposed walls in the basement. Or fix any leaky outside access doors. Thats where the lions share of heat will go. Underground walls wont lose as much heat as the temp on the other side is mild 55 or so. Relatively easy and cost effective to build as wall inside the foundation and use inexpensive sheet foam under the MR drywall. Remember to use treated wood for at least the floor sill plate.
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