Taming the wild Quadrafire 2100, part 2B

[precaud]

Taming the wild Quadrafire 2100, part 2B

OK, lastly, I wanted to extend the life of the coals to the 7-8 hour range, so the fire can be revived the next morning without kindling or starting from scratch. Having done this to other stoves, there's no mystery that the key is to cut off almost all air to the firebox, giving only a small amount of "bleed" air to keep the coals alive but not enough that they burn off. Part of this was dealt with by removing the stop screw from the primary air control. We must also be able to shut off the secondary air, which is the largest air source in the stove.

Now, I must say... I really like having full control of the secondary air; it especially helps controlling the fire at lower burn rates. But the Quad 2100 has two separate secondary air inlets, on opposite sides of the stove (see photo 7.) Fabricating a sliding control for that is a bit of a pain. I'll deal with that in the off-season. For now, I'll settle for blocking plates so it can be shut off. I happened to have some thin pieces of stainless steel with a right angled bend on one end, so I cut them to size and added a screw for a handle (see photo 13.) In use, after the flames have died, these two pieces are slid closed on either side of the stove and the secondary is then shut off (see photo 14.)

OK, so now we've done things to (hopefully) slow down the burn rate, clean up the glass, make it burn more evenly in the firebox, and extended the life of the coals. So, how's it burn, Johnnie? Let's re-install it, fire it up and see. I'll watch the chimney from time to time to see if the changes have made things worse emissions-wise.

: The stove is now much more controllable. With complete control of the primary air, much lower burn rates can be had, up to 30% longer per load. And, if things get out of hand, it can now be shut down completely. I consider this an important safety feature.
: About half the time, some wood at the very back of the firebox does not burn. That means I reduced the size of the hole at the back too much. An easy fix.
: Even with the lower burn rates made possible by removing the primary stop screw, the glass cleanliness is improved (see photo 15, and compare to photos 1 and 3.) The sooted areas on both sides are smaller, and less dark as well. The left side has improved but is still worse than the right. And the right side has changed; it's cleaner now toward the bottom. That's a clue; maybe an air leak there.
: The swirl burn pattern is weaker but still present, as shown by the sooting on the glass.
: The coals bed can now easily be revived after 8 hours. Just open up the primary, open the door a little, and in a couple minutes you have a full bed of red hot coals for startup. Exactly what the doctor ordered!
: With smaller-diameter wood, there's still a tendency for this stove to "take off" about half way through the load, but not as bad a before. The cure is to use larger splits. When I cut my wood for next season, I'll be able to optimize it for the stove.
: I see no difference in smoke from the chimney after these mods. It's still a nice, clean-burning stove. (Though, I must say that, despite it's higher EPA numbers, the Morso 2110 burns cleaner...)

So - a definite improvement on all fronts, resulting in a stove that is burning better and is much more pleasant to use. Extending the burn time alone makes all the difference in the world. I can now see myself living with this stove.

But there's still the uneven burn problem. And possible evidence of an air leak near the bottom right of the door which could be partly to blame. In Part 3 I'll try to track those down and get this thing burning normally.

 

[seaken]

Did you try any experiments with the draft? Did you attempt to slow the burn rate with a flue damper? Mixed wood?

All interesting stuff. But if was a Quad dealer I'd be shaking my head. I couldn't send out a service technician. You've modified the stove so much that you've essentally isolated yourself and stopped your warranty. Maybe that's okay for you but I wouldn't encourage others to make these modifications. Some of these folks may need their dealers help someday.

 

[precaud]

Did you try any experiments with the draft? Did you attempt to slow the burn rate with a flue damper?

No, because draft is not the problem - a 15 ft. chimney at 7000 feet altitude is not a candidate for excessive draft... and besides, a damper is a very imprecise tool for stoves with interactive air systems like the Quad 2100.

Mixed wood?

Mix species? There are no hardwoods here.

All interesting stuff. But if was a Quad dealer I'd be shaking my head. I couldn't send out a service technician.

I still have one article to go, so we're not finished yet, and you don't know the outcome. But I'm interested to know... given the symptoms that I listed, how, as a dealer, would you have dealt with them?

You've modified the stove so much that you've essentally isolated yourself and stopped your warranty.

Oh, come now. I've made no permanent modifications to the stove. Everything I've done can be removed in a matter of minutes. Explain to me what I've done that compromises the safety and integrity of the stove.

Maybe that's okay for you but I wouldn't encourage others to make these modifications. Some of these folks may need their dealers help someday.

Do-it-yourself articles such as this are self-limiting in terms of audience; the type of user who is dependent on a dealer or doesn't care about stuff like this wouldn't bother to read such an article. So there's no need to protect anyone from anything or plant fears here.

I HIGHLY encourage others to learn more about how their stoves work. I think that the more knowledgable an end-user is, the better off they are. As I said at the very beginning of part one, stoves are not rocket science. The interactions are complex, but the ingredients are very simple.

It's likely that most users don't know if their stoves have construction and assembly flaws or not. I'd guess your typical customer doesn't. But if they read these posts, they'd know what to look for.

 

[seaken]

Again, all good arguments. It's hard to argue with your wanting to share information. I was just wondering what else you tried before modifying the stove design to suit your own needs. Did you give Quadrafire the chance to address your issues with their design before you made your own modifications? Hey, it's your stove. You can do what you want. And maybe there is a defect in design, I don't know. All I know is that I would not authorize any warranty claims on that stove. I would expect any dealerto act the same.

If you came to me first and we determined it was defective I would give you a choice, either put in a claim under warranty, or get your money back. You may then use the money to buy some other stove that better suits your needs. But if you chose to go it alone I could not help you. The curiosity in me might want to follow along but the busines man would have to disavow any responsibility. If one of my technicians came back with this story and these photos I would say "move on". We can only follow up with warranty claims as supported by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is not responsive our only recourse is to refund the purchase price or make a deal to swap out the stove for some other model.

If I were the manufacturer I would claim abuse since you have changed the design of the stove. The stove design, defective for you or not, conforms to a UL listing and was approved for consumer use it's current design. I would not authorize a field design change. A repair or a recall maybe. But not a design change. While it may be true that your modifications are not permanent how can you prove that such modifcations did not contribute to further defect, or metal stress, or some other problem that may pop up in the future? You may be absolutely correct and your design changes may even be technically beneficial. But that won't change the position of the manufacturer, dealer, insurance agent, local insopector, and whoever else may have reason to either accept or reject liability. Like I said, facinating suff, but your on your own.

 

[precaud]

Sean, I didn't say that this involves a design defect. There are construction defects, but the design is sound. Every design involves many tradeoffs. I'm only explaining the design elements as I discover them and assessing what role they play in the behavior I'm seeing. So I'm not sure why you're taking this in the direction you are. I'm not trashing the manufacturer, criticizing the dealer, or any of that. Everything you've said above makes sense as business decisions as a dealer. But that's not my concern, and it's not the point of this series of posts.

The Quad 2100 has some excellent design features that I really like and wanted. And like every other stove out there, it has some design "features" that are driven by marketing, making better EPA numbers, etc. but that really compromise user-friendliness. Some of those are things that are easy to change. I'd rather have 8 hour burn times than the alleged comfort given by any of the organizations you mentioned. And if a dealer made a judgement to invalidate my warranty because I installed secondary blockoff plates, well it would be the last time he'd see my business. I'd hope you'd have better judgement than that.

Some of the things I address are the result of sloppy construction and assembly - like the gasket, gaps between plates, and others not yet written about. I contend that the majority of stoves sold have such issues, but users don't know to recognize the symptoms, so they go unnoticed.

No stove is perfect. But f we understand what things we can change, and what things we can't and have to live with, then we can make more intelligent choices.