The guy who installed my insert recommended that we get the chimney swept. The chimney sweep said that our installation was faulty.

[h00t]

The chimney sweep technician found a few deficiencies with our setup, but the one that concerned me the most was the significant buildup of creosote on the cap since we had it installed a few weeks ago. He is saying that this is caused by the damper being closed to much on our stove, but there are literally no damper controls on the Quad Expedition 2. There is only a push rod for the ACC (which is very loose on our current install - it wiggles a lot) and the fan control.

The chimney sweep company is saying that the installer blocked the air jackets on the chimney which will cause it to be unable to cool like it normally should. Here is the chimney sweeps response on what they want to do.

"I’ve also included a estimate to replace top plate/cap and install factory built liner apt. Installing liner FBLA will allow air jackets on chimney to exposed. Please let me know if you have any questions."

The original installer is claiming that the chimney sweep company is just trying to get money out of me, which seems like a little bit of a childish response. Anyways, what do you all think?

Chimney:

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Stove:
ACC Rod is at bottom right of opening

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Creosote on cap:

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Airjackets covered:

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Cracking sealant (not sure if this is the installers fault or if was already like this:

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[begreen]

Looks like someone put in a liner in an air-cooled chimney. The creosote on the cap might be because of the liner in uninsulated. But there are more problems. To start with there is no storm collar on this setup.

What was this insert installed into? Is this a full masonry fireplace or was it a zero clearance, factory fireplace?

 

[bholler]

The chimney sweep technician found a few deficiencies with our setup, but the one that concerned me the most was the significant buildup of creosote on the cap since we had it installed a few weeks ago. He is saying that this is caused by the damper being closed to much on our stove, but there are literally no damper controls on the Quad Expedition 2. There is only a push rod for the ACC (which is very loose on our current install - it wiggles a lot) and the fan control.

The chimney sweep company is saying that the installer blocked the air jackets on the chimney which will cause it to be unable to cool like it normally should. Here is the chimney sweeps response on what they want to do.

"I’ve also included a estimate to replace top plate/cap and install factory built liner apt. Installing liner FBLA will allow air jackets on chimney to exposed. Please let me know if you have any questions."

The original installer is claiming that the chimney sweep company is just trying to get money out of me, which seems like a little bit of a childish response. Anyways, what do you all think?

Chimney:

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Stove:
ACC Rod is at bottom right of opening

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Creosote on cap:

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Airjackets covered:

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Cracking sealant (not sure if this is the installers fault or if was already like this:

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The sweep is absolutely right but I suspect there are more problems. The vast majority of prefab fireplaces don't allow inserts to be installed in them. And if there were cooling vents on the fireplace they are also covered. Do you know what model fireplace you have or do you have any before pics?

 

[h00t]

Here is a photo of the original. I have no idea if this was an original prefab or not. The installer definitely didn't advise me on any of this.

I also have more detailed photos of the original if that would help.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Looks like a factory prefab unit. Do you know the make and model?

 

[bholler]

View attachment 258690

Here is a photo of the original. I have no idea if this was an original prefab or not. The installer definitely didn't advise me on any of this.

I also have more detailed photos of the original if that would help.

Thanks!

Yes more detailed pics would help. But it does look like a prefab with vents that are also now covered.

 

[h00t]

More pics incoming. The installer mentioned installing a fresh air vent on the side of insert. Would this help remedy the problem with the vents?

 

[h00t]

 

[h00t]

Looks like a factory prefab unit. Do you know the make and model?

No idea on the make and model

 

[bholler]

More pics incoming. The installer mentioned installing a fresh air vent on the side of insert. Would this help remedy the problem with the vents?

No that would not help at all. Those vents are there to keep the fireplace and chimney cool so it doesn't catch the surrounding framing on fire. Your installer really screwed up and created a dangerous situation.

 

[h00t]

No that would not help at all. Those vents are there to keep the fireplace and chimney cool so it doesn't catch the surrounding framing on fire. Your installer really screwed up and created a dangerous situation.

Is there anything I can do to salvage the situation? I'm out $5k

 

[bholler]

Is there anything I can do to salvage the situation? I'm out $5k

Did the installer sell you the stove? How did you pay for it?

 

[h00t]

Did the installer sell you the stove?

No, I bought the stove from a dealer and they subcontracted out the installer. They both seem to be working with me to fix the situation. I think uninstalling the stove and getting a full refund will be pretty extreme though. I hope we can find a solution so it doesn't have to come to that.

 

[bholler]

No, I bought the stove from a dealer and they subcontracted out the installer. They both seem to be working with me to fix the situation. I think uninstalling the stove and getting a full refund will be pretty extreme though. I hope we can find a solution so it doesn't have to come to that.

That is probably the only proper solution. If you knew the make and model of fireplace I could tell you for sure. Ask them what model you have. If they don't know that means they didn't even bother to check if this install was possible.

 

[bholler]

Chances are they probably also cut out the fireplace damper making the fireplace unusable as well.

 

[h00t]

Looks like someone put in a liner in an air-cooled chimney. The creosote on the cap might be because of the liner in uninsulated. But there are more problems. To start with there is no storm collar on this setup.

What was this insert installed into? Is this a full masonry fireplace or was it a zero clearance, factory fireplace?

Yeah, the liner installed was an SS z-flex liner. I spoke with the installer and he said hardly anyone has ever asked for insulation. How complicated is the process of adding insulation, or is this even possible? He's trying to work with me to fix the situation but it's a little ridiculous that I'm having to now become the expert on chimneys and tell him what to do. Anyways, I greatly appreciate all the advice and information give so far.

 

[Rickb]

Looks like you will need a lot of work to correct this.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, the liner installed was an SS z-flex liner. I spoke with the installer and he said hardly anyone has ever asked for insulation. How complicated is the process of adding insulation, or is this even possible? He's trying to work with me to fix the situation but it's a little ridiculous that I'm having to now become the expert on chimneys and tell him what to do. Anyways, I greatly appreciate all the advice and information give so far.

Yet another indicator he doesn't know or care about safety or code compliance. Customers will almost never ask for insulation because they usually don't know about chimneys and why insulation is needed. It is our job as professionals to educate the customer as to what is needed and why.

 

[h00t]

That is probably the only proper solution. If you knew the make and model of fireplace I could tell you for sure. Ask them what model you have. If they don't know that means they didn't even bother to check if this install was possible.

I'm asking him about this now.

On another note, we have been using starter logs to get the stove going, and he is now claiming that those are what's causing the creosote build up. Is there any merit to this claim?

 

[bholler]

I'm asking him about this now.

On another note, we have been using starter logs to get the stove going, and he is now claiming that those are what's causing the creosote build up. Is there any merit to this claim?

It is doubtful. The creosote is probably from wet wood and an uninsulated liner.

 

[h00t]

When I asked him for the make and model, his response was, "It was 0 clearance Box fireplace". So it sounds like he has no idea what it was.

 

[bholler]

When I asked him for the make and model, his response was, "It was 0 clearance Box fireplace". So it sounds like he has no idea what it was.

Yes clearly not concerned with what is safe or compliant. Just wants to get paid

 

[Rickb]

was there any permits pulled for this or inspections done?

 

[begreen]

If there was a credit card involved in the transaction it could be time to put a hold on the payment.

The fireplace make and model should be on a tag in the door frame.

 

[h00t]

Yes clearly not concerned with what is safe or compliant. Just wants to get paid

Well, now that I'm digging through the installation manual for the Quadrafire Expedition II, it states that the insert is tested and approved for installation into a zero-clearance pre-fab unit. It does state that the top flue liner should not reduce air-flow for the existing air-cooled chimney, so I still think this part needs to be corrected.

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Manual