Yes but if your fireplaces manual says you cannot install an insert in it the quad manual can't over ride that. And most say you can't
The guy who installed my insert recommended that we get the chimney swept. The chimney sweep said that our installation was faulty.
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kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
The insert maybe tested and approved for a UL127 fire place, but because the fireplace was augmented by blocking the air cooling vents and using a non approved liner in a air cooled chimney the fireplace is no longer rated at ul127, essentially you have a metal box within another metal box and no way to know that conduction, convection of heat will start a structure fire, because heat is not being dispersed correctly as the original fireplace manufacturer designed and tested, a thing called pyrolysis maybe occurring in the chimney chase and one day you can get a sudden light off while burning in the insert.
enduring
Burning Hunk
Would taking it all down be the best option? Or would pouring an insulation mortar down between the liner and the original chimney be a solution?
No pouring insulation would not address the safety concerns at all. Without the cooling air flow in the chimney or firebox there is not much protecting the framing. And pour in insulation is only meant to protect structure when it is 1" thick and inside 4" of solid masonry.
So at this point I'm starting to feel like I'm pretty much screwed. I don't know how I can figure out what the original model pre-fab was, so it may or may not be okay to have installed an insert in it. Getting the dealer to undo all of this will probably take something on the magnitude of getting a lawyer and taking them to court, and I can't even prove if they were wrong or not because no one knows what the original prefab is and I'm not sure if there's a way to even find out at this point.
It seems like my option at this point is to either leave the insert in as a ($5k) decoration, or to fix the issues with the air jackets on the cap and hope my risk of burning down the house is actually still pretty low even though the installation wasn't done to code.
Stop payment on the stove. The installer they recommend did not install it in a way that is useable.
Under what condition? I can't even prove that the installation was bad at this point until I figure out what the original fireplace model was. I'm going to need to figure out how to rip out all of this custom trim that he installed.
No they blocked the cooling air top and bottom. Regardless of what fireplace you have the install is dangerous and completely unusable. Those problems could be fixed. But the fact is you payed a "pro" they recommend and he did work which endangered your house and family
Agreed. I remember talking to the installer and he said that he could replace the top and bottom vents with custom trim since they wouldn't be doing anything anyways.
Could you help me understand how the bottom cooling works, so that I can explain my stance to the dealer/installer? Does it cool only the bottom firebox, or does it help cool the entire chimney in unison with the top cooling?
Without knowing what fireplace you have I can't say. Usually it just cools the box but on some units that air also cools the chimney.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Just take the stance that installing it into a prefab fireplace that they didn't identify is absolutely off limits, your new warranty is void, no insurance company that sends an inspector will insure your house now, and oh yeah your house might burn down.
You don't need to dig into the minutiae of whether or not the cooling tubes are needed. That is just muddying the water with one more thing that they can argue with you about.
Their job was to get the manual for the old unit and see if a new unit could be installed in it. If they couldn't identify the old unit and obtain the manual or consult with the manufacturer, their job was to tell you that the old unit had to come out.
This didn't happen, now it needs to.
You don't need to dig into the minutiae of whether or not the cooling tubes are needed. That is just muddying the water with one more thing that they can argue with you about.
Their job was to get the manual for the old unit and see if a new unit could be installed in it. If they couldn't identify the old unit and obtain the manual or consult with the manufacturer, their job was to tell you that the old unit had to come out.
This didn't happen, now it needs to.
I’m sorry this project was not done correctly from the beginning. I wish I had more knowledge of prefab fireplaces and the associated chimney chase. I’m wondering if the installation can be made safe by removing the flexible liner and replacing it with a double wall class A chimney and if necessary, restoring the ventilation folks refer to. I suspect these “wooden chimneys” are meant to hide venting equipment that is only up to dealing with an occasional wood fire. I know my suggestion is an expense that is significant. But... at least the new insert would not go to waste or burn the house down.
The zero clearance fireplace is designed to work as a complete system as designed with the specified chimney. And for the purpose of having decorative fires. It was never designed to contain an insert. There also would be no way to connect the insert to the class a chimney. Doing what you suggested would be going against both sets of instructions for both ul appliances.
The issue was and remains whether the fireplace manufacturer allows an insert to be installed. Not a lot of older ones do. Adding a class A chimney would make no difference.
typically, the original fireplace and chimney would be removed and a new zero clearance fireplace would be framed/installed with a new chimney.
The Expedition 2 is a insert, which you would put into a masonry fireplace. It should be isolated and no where close to any wood framing or drywall. There are a few(Very few) prefab fireplaces that allow a insert, but I believe they allow them as long as no modifications are made to the original firebox.
The Expedition 2 is a insert, which you would put into a masonry fireplace. It should be isolated and no where close to any wood framing or drywall. There are a few(Very few) prefab fireplaces that allow a insert, but I believe they allow them as long as no modifications are made to the original firebox.
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Could the Insert be reused if the existing fire place is removed and the framing is replaced with steel studs and dry board?
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
I guess it cant be used free standing like a Buck and no zero clearance cabinet available like buck 74? So either a masonary fireplace would have to be built or cut loses and start over with a high efficiency zero clearance or free standing stove.
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