The right stove for a very energy efficient modular cabin

[anim57]

Hello all -

What a great resource this is! I'm trying to learn all I can about wood stoves and this is the best education imaginable.

We're building an approx. 1200 sf one story modular home on a heavily wooded lot near Mt. Hood (about one hour from Portland, OR). So, fairly mild winters, a fair amount of snow most years, but no sub-zero temperatures. The home will be very well insulated.

Wood available on the lot includes Doug fir, alder, maple, etc.

I'm assuming that we'd be able to heat this cabin with a fairly small stove. I've been looking at the PE Alderlea T4, Jotul Nordic, CB or Castine, Harman Oakleaf or Oakwood, Morso 3440 or 7110, Quadra 4300 or Yosemite.

I'm not sure about convection vs. radiant, but I do know that we'd ideally like the heat to be fairly gentle, even fairly close to the stove itself (so, I'm guessing this favors convection). Also, we'd like the option to cook on the stove in case of a power outage. I'm not sure whether we'd need/want a blower.

Any experts out there with specific suggestions on a brand/model or perhaps some considerations I haven't thought about?

Thank you!

 

[Todd]

You may want to checkout Woodstock stoves www.woodstove.com their stoves would be a good fit for your needs.

 

[Highbeam]

It's tough to heat a small, well insulated, home with most woodstoves. The stoves you listed are all non-cat stoves and burn hot and fast so you will either be cooked out of the home or be restarting fires all the time. You won't be able to get a non-cat that burns overnight unless it is too large for your home. You need a small cat stove.

Small cat stoves are plentiful these days. A good WA brand is Blazeking, they make a few tiny stoves rated to heat your space and have 20+ hour burntimes. You can also look at Woodstock and especially their small keystone stove.

 

[anim57]

It's tough to heat a small, well insulated, home with most woodstoves. The stoves you listed are all non-cat stoves and burn hot and fast so you will either be cooked out of the home or be restarting fires all the time. You won't be able to get a non-cat that burns overnight unless it is too large for your home. You need a small cat stove.

Small cat stoves are plentiful these days. A good WA brand is Blazeking, they make a few tiny stoves rated to heat your space and have 20+ hour burntimes. You can also look at Woodstock and especially their small keystone stove.

Thanks for the reply Highbeam. Pardon my ignorance, but why is a cat stove the right option here? All I know about cat stoves is that people say they are more complicated/expensive to operate. I'll try to search the forums for more info on this.

 

[Highbeam]

The cat stove is the right option because they can be turned down to a low output level where they will slowly consume wood and emit low levels of heat. You can't do this with modern non-cat stoves, they are now regulated to burn at medium to high outputs only.

The non-cat that is small enough to not cook you out of your home will only have a very short burntime, usually require short wood, and still be a flashy (hot and then cold) burner. Compare this with a cat stove that allows you to burn low and slow so that you can burn overnight and not experience the large swings in output.

The cat stoves are more complicated to use but you will quickly learn the procedure and I would argue that they are less expensive to operate based on wood consumption. The cat vs. non-cat is a common debate. The most obvious time that a cat stove is the winner is when the home is small.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The PE T4 is a pretty good option as well. Real good burn times, especially with hard wood.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The non-cat that is small enough to not cook you out of your home will only have a very short burntime, usually require short wood, and still be a flashy (hot and then cold) burner.

Like I said, the T4 is definitely a good option as it has really good burn times for a small stove and accepts 18" splits.

 

[anim57]

Like I said, the T4 is definitely a good option as it has really good burn times for a small stove and accepts 18" splits.

Thanks Browning BAR; the T4 was definitely the direction I was leaning before the cat idea was raised. Now I'm wondering about the VC Intrepid as a possibility. I'll have to do some more research. I really appreciate the input.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Thanks Browning BAR; the T4 was definitely the direction I was leaning before the cat idea was raised. Now I'm wondering about the VC Intrepid as a possibility. I'll have to do some more research. I really appreciate the input.

As a a previous VC Intrepid owner I would not go in this direction. Much shorter burn times (4-6 hours max) than the T4 or any other cat stove available and it still uses the old cat design from VC which is expensive to maintain.

If this was me, I would go with the T4 or the Woodstock Keystone. Keystone will give a bit longer of a burn time. Either is a good choice. The smaller Blaze King stoves would work well, but they are far pricier and the looks are hit or miss with buyers.

 

[jeff_t]

http://www.blazeking.com/EN/new.html

Not sure how these two work, as I haven't heard from anybody who has one. I do know that the King and Princess models are all that. They do live up to all the hype.

 

[DexterDay]

The Blaze King line is expensive. But they offer some small stoves (that are attractive ) that have Burn times, that seem ridiculous when compared to others (other than Woodstock).

The Chinook is a dandy of a stove and can achieve 24 hr burns. The Princess may be to much (if the structure is that tight and insulated).

But you wont get the long, low, and slow burn, if you dont have a Cat (well... Clean burn anyways).

If its as tight as you say, and your willing to relight a lot, then the T-4 is a good option.

(After re-reading the OP- You are doing this as secondary heat. I got lost in the Heat part. Any smaller stove should fit the bill. Cat or No Cat.)

 

[anim57]

The Blaze King line is expensive. But they offer some small stoves (that are attractive ) that have Burn times, that seem ridiculous when compared to others (other than Woodstock).

The Chinook is a dandy of a stove and can achieve 24 hr burns. The Princess may be to much (if the structure is that tight and insulated).

But you wont get the long, low, and slow burn, if you dont have a Cat (well... Clean burn anyways).

If its as tight as you say, and your willing to relight a lot, then the T-4 is a good option.

(After re-reading the OP- You are doing this as secondary heat. I got lost in the Heat part. Any smaller stove should fit the bill. Cat or No Cat.)

Yes DexterDay, I guess I didn't make that clear in my original post: this will be providing secondary heat; we'll have a heat pump as the primary heat source as necessary. Seems like you feel this fact reduces the need for a cat stove, since we won't need to burn overnight to maintain comfort?

 

[DexterDay]

If your burning for heat while your there (and your gonna be there to feed it?) Then a small stove should work.

You could use a small parlor stove, but your gonna be loading every hour or two. A cat stove will allow for good heat all day and take the load off your heat pump and reduce your bills. But.... If you have a Power outage? You may want a stove that can go longer?

There are lots of avenues here. Thats why its nice to see the ideas that everyone bounces at you... Everyone proves a good point. Its what you see in the opinions that best suites your needs?

 

[jeff_t]

Somebody should pick up the slack for Dennis.

If you're thinking about burning wood, your wood supply should already be spilt and stacked. All stoves need dry wood to work efficiently, and epa stoves even more so. Your softwoods should be good in a year or so, even better after two.

 

[begreen]

The T4's cast iron jacket will even out the temperature swings, as should the Yosemite. From the stoves mentioned that is what I would be looking at. If the cabin is going to need to be taken from very cold to warm, then I would be looking at the T5 or Cumberland Gap. If it gets too warm, open up a window a bit.

PS: These stove like decent draft and dry wood. Be sure the flue is tall enough and the wood is dry enough. This will greatly enhance your burning experience.

 

[anim57]

Somebody should pick up the slack for Dennis.

If you're thinking about burning wood, your wood supply should already be spilt and stacked. All stoves need dry wood to work efficiently, and epa stoves even more so. Your softwoods should be good in a year or so, even better after two.

Jeff_t, I have quite alot of seasoned oak at our home in Portland to get me started. If (when) that runs out I'll buy some seasoned wood until the first onsite wood is ready.

 

[anim57]

If your burning for heat while your there (and your gonna be there to feed it?) Then a small stove should work.

You could use a small parlor stove, but your gonna be loading every hour or two. A cat stove will allow for good heat all day and take the load off your heat pump and reduce your bills. But.... If you have a Power outage? You may want a stove that can go longer?

There are lots of avenues here. Thats why its nice to see the ideas that everyone bounces at you... Everyone proves a good point. Its what you see in the opinions that best suites your needs?

DexterDay - wow, excellent point on the power outage! My understanding is that they are frequent up there. I'd thought about this re: ability to cook on the stove if need be but not re: sizing. Thanks.

 

[anim57]

The T4's cast iron jacket will even out the temperature swings, as should the Yosemite. From the stoves mentioned that is what I would be looking at. If the cabin is going to need to be taken from very cold to warm, then I would be looking at the T5 or Cumberland Gap. If it gets too warm, open up a window a bit.

PS: These stove like decent draft and dry wood. Be sure the flue is tall enough and the wood is dry enough. This will greatly enhance your burning experience.

begreen, would the T5 roast us out of there? I had thought this stove and Cumberland Gap were too large. Re: your other point: The flue will be at least 10ft. Does that sound sufficient to you?

 

[DexterDay]

Oak takes 2-3 yrs to season. Thats after being split and stacked.

Can you get any other wood that will season faster?

How long has your Oak been split and stacked?

 

[Wood Duck]

Jeff_t, I have quite alot of seasoned oak at our home in Portland to get me started. If (when) that runs out I'll buy some seasoned wood until the first onsite wood is ready.

For such a small, well insulated space any stove will put out enough heat to keep it warm. The challenge is to find a stove that will put out a small enough amount of heat over a long enough time to make it convenient to run the stove. You could either have a stove that burns low for a long time, like a smaller catalytic stove. The catalytic combuster helps keep combustion of the smoke and gases going at a lower temperature (equating to a slower burn rate) than , or maybe one that has a lot of thermal mass so you can have a fire, let it burn out (or almost burn out), then burn another load. A soapstone stove might be good for that. I think either way you might simply have to open a window occasionally during the peak of each burn.

I would not count on buying seasoned firewood that is actually seasoned enough for a modern stove, especially a cat stove. If you need wood this year it would be best to buy it now and season it yourself.

 

[jeff_t]

begreen, would the T5 roast us out of there? I had thought this stove and Cumberland Gap were too large. Re: your other point: The flue will be at least 10ft. Does that sound sufficient to you?

Most stoves require a minimum in the 13'-15' range. Taller is better, at least to a point, but a very tall point. I was just under the minimum with my setup. I added another 3', and it nade a noticeable difference.

I'm not speaking from experience, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the T5. PE stoves seem very controllable. Plus, you can always make smaller fires. If I wasn't counting on my stove the sole heat source, I wouldn't be that concerned with long burns. Loading the stove every 12-48 hours is actually pretty boring.

 

[Highbeam]

When people talk about flue height, or chimney height, the measurement is from top of stove to top of stack. 10 feet is not enough.

 

[anim57]

Oak takes 2-3 yrs to season. Thats after being split and stacked.

Can you get any other wood that will season faster?

How long has your Oak been split and stacked?

Two years, so it'll be almost 2 and 1/2 by the time we need it next winter.

 

[anim57]

For such a small, well insulated space any stove will put out enough heat to keep it warm. The challenge is to find a stove that will put out a small enough amount of heat over a long enough time to make it convenient to run the stove. You could either have a stove that burns low for a long time, like a smaller catalytic stove. The catalytic combuster helps keep combustion of the smoke and gases going at a lower temperature (equating to a slower burn rate) than , or maybe one that has a lot of thermal mass so you can have a fire, let it burn out (or almost burn out), then burn another load. A soapstone stove might be good for that. I think either way you might simply have to open a window occasionally during the peak of each burn.

I would not count on buying seasoned firewood that is actually seasoned enough for a modern stove, especially a cat stove. If you need wood this year it would be best to buy it now and season it yourself.

Great point. We'll buy some wood as soon as we have a place to store it.

 

[BoilerMan]

I have a Quad 4300 and am verry pleased with it's performance. Contrary to what is said I can keep coals overnight, and don't have to relight fires. I've also never had to clean my flue (7' single wall+ 8' Class A) it's been installed for three years. I burn a mix of Yellow birch, Hard Maple, and Beech, great for cooking on too. It is a non-cat and I keep stack temps around 300 unless it's below zero, I get an average of 6 hour burn times, if I really choke it down though it'll go longer but the glass gets dirty and so does the flue. However my main source of heat is a radiant slab, but the Quad is the shoulder season heater.

TS