Thinking about a new stove but didn't realize I was so ignorant, lol

[gfordwv]

So, a little about me - long time wood burner (25 years), Fisher Mama Bear in the basement of a 2200 sq. ft ranch style home. New addition a few years back that is offset from the main part of the house and heated by a mini-split is 500 sq. ft of the 2200 mentioned above. 24 ft masonry chimney with clay liner, inside diameter 7"x 11", good shape. The Fisher is getting old (along with me, lol) and a bit worn so I'm thinking of replacing it with a new higher efficiency stove. The idea of using less wood is appealing to me as I am currently using 5-6 cords per year. I am a little hesitant because the Fisher does a tremendous job heating the house, it can really crank out the heat, and has no problem holding coals for 8-10 hours, even with no stovepipe damper. Naturally, when burning it keeps the basement quite hot (85*+ I'd guess) but, although it's finished we don't spend much time down there so no big deal. The Fisher is also fairly forgiving, will burn wood that has only been seasoned a few months and drafts good most of the time even with a bit oversized chimney.

Until I started researching I had no clue how ignorant I was to the whole science of burning wood. In the past I've just cut wood late summer to early fall, let it season until November or so, then burned it. Lately, I have been keeping the wood stocked further ahead and generally am burning wood I cut last year. Frankly, reading this forum is somewhat eye opening to read how difficult some people make the new high efficiency stoves seem to operate (hard to get fire going, can't keep coals, stovetop thermometer, flue probe, burner tube replacements, etc).

So, my questions are:

• Will I be happy with the heat I get from a newer stove? How "fiddly" can I expect them to be?
• How much wood can I expect to save?
• How important is a chimney liner given my existing setup, how difficult will it be to get a liner in, could I maybe use a 5.5" or oval?
• Understanding everyone has their favorites, is there a scale of relative quality by manufacturer anywhere? Who are the best, next level down, etc.?

This is not something I'm planning to do now, probably a next summer project. Appreciate any insight, this forum seems like a pretty awesome place without all of the constant negativity you find on most forums.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Will I be happy with the heat I get from a newer stove? How "fiddly" can I expect them to be?

Dry wood is the key to getting the most out of any stove. The wetter the wood, the more energy is wasted drying it out before the wood can start heating your house!

Some stoves are more fiddly than others. They don't have to be fiddly unless you want them to be.


How much wood can I expect to save?

Many people say around 30%. There are lots of variables though.


How important is a chimney liner given my existing setup, how difficult will it be to get a liner in, could I maybe use a 5.5" or oval?

Some stoves work better than others with a 5.5" liner.

Understanding everyone has their favorites, is there a scale of relative quality by manufacturer anywhere? Who are the best, next level down, etc.?

It really depends on what you're looking for. Best is a loaded word. My priorities in ranking a stove might be different than yours.



While you're thinking things over, getting as far ahead as possible with wood will help the Fisher burn better too.

 

[Rickb]

You said you were used to cutting in fall and burning that winter but you have started holding wood till the next year. Why? Did you notice a improvement?

Im just curious. Cause with oak I can tell a huge difference from 1 year old splits to 2 year old splits on how my stove performs and burns. I would not say its due to the stove tho. I can tell that same thing in my fire pit outside.

Whether you will be happy with a new stove vs your old stove is too subjective to say. Some go to new stoves and love them. Some don't. I will say, that you are reading here before making the change will be in your favor as far as what to expect and what you will be required to make it work for you.

 

[Eman85]

If you have access to plenty of wood and room for storage I'd stick with what you've got. Go price a stove and chimney liner and you'll come home and hug that Fisher.

 

[begreen]

gfordwv, is the basement fully insulated? How much wood are you going through now?

Some Regency stoves will take a 5.5" liner. Otherwise, an insulated oval liner like DuraLiner will fit in the chimney.

An unshielded stove like the Drolet Austral III will provide similar radiant heat as the Fisher with a good long burn time and a bonus of a nice fire view. You might actually want to spend some more time down there. Also, with a strategically placed fan and/or vent hole or two, you may be able to reduce the heat in the basement and increase that going to the main floor.

 

[Nealm66]

I don’t think financially it makes much sense to switch but I do really appreciate the longer burn times and control of my blaze king princess because of my work schedule and my wife doesn’t have to mess with it. But it’s a lot of money and the heat output won’t be as much when running low/long burn times although the steady low heat output can definitely open windows sometimes in my house. Hope this helps

 

[bcrtops]

We switched from a Fisher like yours years ago.
There have been times I wish we had kept the old Fisher. It's main advantage was it was almost zero maintenance. We had one cracked fire brick, and I had to use a brass washer under the hinge's pivot due to wear. Clean the chimney was all it required, basically.

You will not save as much wood as many claim. You would save wood right now by burning completely dry wood. (You'd likey save 10% wood right now by burning wood with only 20% moisture or less.) Savings: 10-20% is all we saved. 5-6 cords / winter, may drop to 4-5 cords a winter, maybe saving ~1 cord at the most.

The advantage of the newer EPA stoves is the fire view. And, the heat you get out through the glass. Being as our stove is in the Living Room, we do enjoy the fire view, though the old Fisher did have a nice screen, and we could run it like a fireplace, but lost a lot of heat running that way, so seldom used. The disadvantage is that all the EPA style stoves require yearly maintenance of some kind. You don't just sweep the chimney -- you have baffles or tubes etc, to remove to do it properly, and you have gaskets to replace periodically, as well as possible baffle & hinge parts & broken glass replacement. Cats on the catalytic versions, too.

Why did we change? 1) EPA stove. Even though we are not within sight of a neighbor, here in the country, we thought a cleaner burning stove to be a good thing. 2) Our 8" metal chimney for the Fisher needed to be replaced. Reducing to a 6" metal chimney saved a lot of money & at the time paid for 1/2 the price of the new stove in the savings. 3) Fire view -- in our retirement have greatly enjoyed it. 4) Aesthetics. Nicer looking stove.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The only maintenance I have done on my last 3 stoves, other than cleaning the chimney, is a door gasket once, and lubricating the latch. They have all been non cat stoves and were from different manufacturers.

I chose to remove the baffle to clean from the bottom one year and ripped a gasket on my PE. I replaced that, but haven't cleaned from inside the stove since and haven't touched it. I dont see it as much as the stove`s fault or a maintenance issue, but I wanted to try cleaning from a different way.

 

[begreen]

Other than cleaning, up to this year, the only maintenance in 14 yrs on our stove has been the door gasket. This year I replaced the baffle side insulation. It was like $20, so not a show-stopper.

 

[gfordwv]

You said you were used to cutting in fall and burning that winter but you have started holding wood till the next year. Why? Did you notice a improvement?

Im just curious. Cause with oak I can tell a huge difference from 1 year old splits to 2 year old splits on how my stove performs and burns. I would not say its due to the stove tho. I can tell that same thing in my fire pit outside.

Whether you will be happy with a new stove vs your old stove is too subjective to say. Some go to new stoves and love them. Some don't. I will say, that you are reading here before making the change will be in your favor as far as what to expect and what you will be required to make it work for you.

Well, I've always known that a longer drying time is better, just been more diligent about it lately. I can definitely tell the difference, as before some of the wood would burn fine and other not so good. Current batch is running 12-13% on my meter, so it's really good.

 

[gfordwv]

We switched from a Fisher like yours years ago.
There have been times I wish we had kept the old Fisher. It's main advantage was it was almost zero maintenance. We had one cracked fire brick, and I had to use a brass washer under the hinge's pivot due to wear. Clean the chimney was all it required, basically.

You will not save as much wood as many claim. You would save wood right now by burning completely dry wood. (You'd likey save 10% wood right now by burning wood with only 20% moisture or less.) Savings: 10-20% is all we saved. 5-6 cords / winter, may drop to 4-5 cords a winter, maybe saving ~1 cord at the most.

The advantage of the newer EPA stoves is the fire view. And, the heat you get out through the glass. Being as our stove is in the Living Room, we do enjoy the fire view, though the old Fisher did have a nice screen, and we could run it like a fireplace, but lost a lot of heat running that way, so seldom used. The disadvantage is that all the EPA style stoves require yearly maintenance of some kind. You don't just sweep the chimney -- you have baffles or tubes etc, to remove to do it properly, and you have gaskets to replace periodically, as well as possible baffle & hinge parts & broken glass replacement. Cats on the catalytic versions, too.

Why did we change? 1) EPA stove. Even though we are not within sight of a neighbor, here in the country, we thought a cleaner burning stove to be a good thing. 2) Our 8" metal chimney for the Fisher needed to be replaced. Reducing to a 6" metal chimney saved a lot of money & at the time paid for 1/2 the price of the new stove in the savings. 3) Fire view -- in our retirement have greatly enjoyed it. 4) Aesthetics. Nicer looking stove.

Yeah, I really do like the maintenance free aspect of the Fisher. Not really worried about the fire view as we won't spend much time down there, although my wife might like it as she likes to go down there and read. She can stand that heat but it runs me out in a few minutes. I do share your sentiment on having a cleaner burning stove.

 

[gfordwv]

gfordwv, is the basement fully insulated? How much wood are you going through now?

Some Regency stoves will take a 5.5" liner. Otherwise, an insulated oval liner like DuraLiner will fit in the chimney.

An unshielded stove like the Drolet Austral III will provide similar radiant heat as the Fisher with a good long burn time and a bonus of a nice fire view. You might actually want to spend some more time down there. Also, with a strategically placed fan and/or vent hole or two, you may be able to reduce the heat in the basement and increase that going to the main floor.

It is insulated, although the wall behind the stove is just painted brick over concrete block. I'm going through about 5 cords now.

 

[gfordwv]

If you have access to plenty of wood and room for storage I'd stick with what you've got. Go price a stove and chimney liner and you'll come home and hug that Fisher.

Yeah, I hear you. Looks like it would run $5K or better. Gotta save a lot of wood to cover that!

 

[begreen]

It is insulated, although the wall behind the stove is just painted brick over concrete block. I'm going through about 5 cords now.

Good, that helps. It would not be unrealistic to expect that to drop to 3.5 to 4 cords of wood. How does the heat get upstairs now?

 

[Rickb]

Well, I've always known that a longer drying time is better, just been more diligent about it lately. I can definitely tell the difference, as before some of the wood would burn fine and other not so good. Current batch is running 12-13% on my meter, so it's really good.

Thats a good start... Most people that pop on here complaining with a new stove are used to burning wet wood in a old stove wide open and are unhappy they are not only getting less heat but not saving wood. New stoves create more heat but need better fuel.

That said... if you need lots of heat I would stick with a tube/reburn style stove. If you need less heat but would like it over a longer time get a good cat stove.

It really isnt super complicated. If the wood is dry. X amount of a type of wood equals Y amount of BTU's. To heat your house it requires Z amount of BTU's per hour. You cant magic more BTU. You can however use it more efficiently(IE all new stoves) or slower(IE Cat stove).

That said mine has been running for 9 years and the only maintenance I have done is replace the cat, but kept the old one since it seems still good.

 

[NickW]

I wish I had switched my old smoke dragon for the EPA stove 15 years sooner! I went from 5-7 cord of hardwood not effectively heating our house to 4 cord mixed (3 hard, 1 soft...+/-) quite effectively heating the house. Sooooo nice not hearing the electric baseboard heaters kicking in! Maybe half a dozen mornings in the coldest windiest weather do they kick in. Yes, getting to the magical 3 years ahead on the wood supply is tough the first couple of years.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, I hear you. Looks like it would run $5K or better. Gotta save a lot of wood to cover that!

$5000 is pretty high for a liner. The thing is I can almost garantee that if you had a full inspection done of your chimney and liner there would be quite a few problems after being used that long. So most likely you should have a new liner anyway even if you were keeping the Fisher.

 

[gfordwv]

Good, that helps. It would not be unrealistic to expect that to drop to 3.5 to 4 cords of wood. How does the heat get upstairs now?

It basically just comes up the steps, it's impressive the amount of heat that comes up those steps. You can sit on the steps and feel the conveyor belt of cold air coming down them with the heat above. The house used to have registers cut in the floor but not much heat really came up through them for some reason. A few years ago I put a drop ceiling down there and covered the registers.

 

[gfordwv]

$5000 is pretty high for a liner. The thing is I can almost garantee that if you had a full inspection done of your chimney and liner there would be quite a few problems after being used that long. So most likely you should have a new liner anyway even if you were keeping the Fisher.

I meant $5K for stove and line combo. Looks like a liner would run me $1,500-$1750 or so.

 

[gfordwv]

Thats a good start... Most people that pop on here complaining with a new stove are used to burning wet wood in a old stove wide open and are unhappy they are not only getting less heat but not saving wood. New stoves create more heat but need better fuel.

That said... if you need lots of heat I would stick with a tube/reburn style stove. If you need less heat but would like it over a longer time get a good cat stove.

It really isnt super complicated. If the wood is dry. X amount of a type of wood equals Y amount of BTU's. To heat your house it requires Z amount of BTU's per hour. You cant magic more BTU. You can however use it more efficiently(IE all new stoves) or slower(IE Cat stove).

That said mine has been running for 9 years and the only maintenance I have done is replace the cat, but kept the old one since it seems still good.

Being completely new to the stove discussion, can you give me an example or two of a tube/reburn stove?

 

[begreen]

For radiant Fisher-like heating take a look at the Drolet Austral or the Drolet HT3000 for a more convective large, value stove. The Englander 32-NC is also a good, large, value stove.

 

[Rickb]

Being completely new to the stove discussion, can you give me an example or two of a tube/reburn stove?

Tube/reburn stoves preheat the incoming combustion air. When the primary air is turned down it forces the air through these "tubes". You will see fire dancing on the top of the burn chamber as the super heated air meats the hot smoke causing it to ignite. That's how it achieves the efficiency. That said in order to pre-heat the air it requires a higher firebox temp.

Cats can maintain a lower firebox temp while re-burning using a combuster. Doing this they can run at lower overall temps lengthening your burn times.

However if you need more heat to keep your house warm a longer low and slow stove will not really help you. For use. I never burn the stove above low so I would rather have it burn longer with less heat. For someone else who needs a lot more heat it wont help to burn longer, because again there is still only so many BTU in that stick of fire wood.

 

[Rickb]

examples of tube/reburn stoves would be any stove that doesnt have a cat in it that is epa certified today. lol

 

[begreen]

examples of tube/reburn stoves would be any stove that doesnt have a cat in it that is epa certified today. lol

True, though some do not have tubes to achieve secondary combustion. And then there are hybrids, that have both tubes and a cat.

 

[Rickb]

True, though some do not have tubes to achieve secondary combustion. And then there are hybrids, that have both tubes and a cat.

i was trying to keep it simple. lol but yes.