Thinking about outdoor wood furnace, newbie

[HollowHill]

I have a 200 year old, poorly insulated, drafty 2400 sq ft house. Heating with oil currently, radiant floor mostly, 2 rooms with radiators. Oil bill ranges anywhere from $6000 - $10,000. Have a woodlot. According to the btu calculator on this site, I'm figuring 48,000 btu's for one floor, if doubling that will take care of 2nd floor, figuring I will need around 100K btus. I'm considering an outdoor wood furnace of some type, either gassifier or traditional. I'm in central NY and while a town nearby has banned the traditional outdoor wood furnace, not sure that that will occur out in the boonies where I live. What should I be thinking about and taking into consideration? Any opinions on the best way to go? I'm leaning toward an Econoburn 150. I know I need something easy to operate, not a rocket scientist and have little experience with burning wood. Any suggestions or thoughts would be most appreciated. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

If you are spending that amount a year on heating, you'd best benefit by addressing the causes of problem. Putting an OWB would only address the symptoms and would still be costly. If you put 1 year's worth of fuel expense into a thorough energy retrofit and sealing of the house, the heating costs could be dramatically reduced. Then, no matter what heating source used, you'll be saving from that point forward and will have nicely increased the home's value. Plus, you'd get a nice tax credit. Get an energy audit done on the house first.

 

[HollowHill]

BeGreen, wish it were as straightforward as that. Unfortunately, this house still needs a lot of work, all of which is more or less interrelated - new roof, new siding, new windows, new insulation, etc. Add on top of that that I want it done in a manner respectful of the age of the house, and we're talking big bucks. We're waiting on an inheritance to see us through that expense, but are looking to do what we can to reduce expenses while we wait. We might be able to swing 10 grand up front, in the hopes of reducing our oil bill substantially. It's crushing us financially. Is this foolish?

 

[begreen]

I can appreciate that and kudos for wanting to do it right. Get an energy audit done on the house. They'll help you figure out where you can get the most bang for your buck. You might be surprised at what some caulking in the right places will do for little expense other than sweat equity. Addressing some of the core needs, incrementally, will put money back in your wallet the fastest way possible. You may need to hold off on new windows for a few years, but home built storm windows can cover that need in the interim. It's not unrealistic to see one's heating costs halved or better by addressing core problems. Our old farmhouse is now costing us about 1/5 what it used to cost to heat. (Actually more like 1/8th when I have cheap wood. ) And it's a lot more comfortable.

As for heating, is a centrally located wood stove on the first floor out of the question? It might cost a lot less than installing an exterior boiler system.

 

[webie]

I agree totally maybe you can just put in a used wood stove for only $$$ to help out your oil heating bill as an interim , It may not be 100% effective but the payback should be quick .

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Not foolish at all, just happens to be the situation you are in. For what it is worth I have owned/operated an OWB for 10 years & would....never....recommend it to anyone, came to this site looking for a better way to heat all of our buildings, tired of the smoke & pollution for my family & all those within 2-3 miles of us. In your situation I would (if possible) take that 10K borrow another 10K & install a large btu unit with storage as you are going to need it. If you can save 6K per year in oil cost then in 3 years you would have say a Garn 2000 paid for. From then on your heating bill is the cost of getting your wood. Then start saving that 6K per year to help pay for house renos. Solves the short term oil bill problem as well as freeing up funds for you to use down the road.

 

[rkusek]

I agree with Cannuck. gasser with storage or the Garn will be a quick payback in your situation especially with the woodlot. Take that $6-10 grand savings and use it (& inheritance) to work on the upgrades. I love to see old homes renovated while maintaining their original character. Sounds exactly like what you are planning.

 

[HollowHill]

Oh my gosh, are gassifiers really $20K? The Econoburn 150 appears to cost around $8K and I thought allotting 2K for installation would cover things. Am I that out of the ballpark?

Regarding wood stoves, that had been my first thought, but my husband doesn't think that one will work in our situation. We have a typical old house layout - large center hall with 2 large rooms off each side of the hall on both floors (8 total). We couldn't situate the wood stove in the center (that's where the open stairs are), it would have to be in the center of the living room, which is one of the front rooms on the first floor. So, in other words, it would be about 10 feet or so off center. He doesn't think the heat would circulate enough to warm up the rest of the house trhough our regular size doors. Is that accurate? I thought I had read somewhere that that layout actually works well for woodstoves, but can't find it again to substantiate.

It just seems like we should be taking advantage of our woodlot. We're having it logged off this spring, which I would assume will net us some money to put toward this purchase and also provide the wood we would need. My husband won't be able to help with this endeavor, his health is not good, but I think I will be up to it. I work from home and am in fairly good shape. I don't think I can use a chainsaw safely (too impatient), but I think I can split the wood, if need be. I'm assuming you don't need to split for wood furnaces, but do for wood stoves?

 

[webie]

My take on this is if you put a wood stove any place in your house you will gain , It doesn't have to do the whole job . Gassers can get expensive on the install end depending on where and piping costs along if you want storage or not . Burning any kind of wood in your home in any heating appliance will save you some of your heating costs all the way up to all of your heating costs . I have a tarm gasser and love it but I also have a zero clearance fireplace and love that , there is a warm feeling about a central heating fireplace or wood stove that cant be substituted .
I am looking at not a permanent solution just a temp one to get you by till you get the house fixed and you get stabilized . As far as the chainsaw end Stihl has an easy start and my mom 84 can start that I am sure if you can handle a split axe you can handle a chainsaw I know alot of women that do . No matter what you are burning in it should be split for better drying the key to burning wood .

 

[webie]

Oh by the way if you are haveing it logged chances are they will take the saw logs and leave the tops so you will definately need a chainsaw , or if its being logged for the saw logs and pulp wood then really there may not be much left ,,,,,,, just depends on your cutting contract .

 

[begreen]

A lot of those old home were heated with two stoves in the winter. One in the parlor or living room and one in the kitchen which doubled for cooking. The wood is going to need to be cut and split. That goes with the territory. But take heart, there are several of us here that are past 60 and still doing it. I will be next weekend. If the house is tightened up it can be heated with one stove. Economically, a big Englander stove can be bought and installed for about $2500 depending on the flue installation.

As stove questions in the hearth forum. There have been dozens of threads about circulating heat posted there. The trick is to blow the cold to the hot. There have been some good successes with your style house and just one or two table or box fans, placed low on the floor, blowing towards the stove room. It really does work and is quite simple. Enlarging one or two of those doorways at some point in the future will make it work even better.

 

[begreen]

Here's a back of the napkin guestimate on how I would budget for this:

Energy audit - $500
Caulking and sealing - $1000
Insulation (blown in walls, batts in attic?) - $2500
Temp storm windows - $300 (make them yourself and reglaze any windows that need it)
Stove and installation $2500
Enlarge door openings to the living room $1000

Total - $7800 of which $6500 qualifies for tax credits

 

[webie]

Here's a back of the napkin guestimate on how I would budget for this:

Energy audit - $500
Caulking and sealing - $1000
Insulation (blown in walls, batts in attic?) - $2500
Temp storm windows - $300 (make them yourself and reglaze any windows that need it)
Stove and installation $2500
Enlarge door openings to the living room $1000

Total - $7800 of which $6500 qualifies for tax credits

+1 seems like alot of work which it is but the end results is what you want and are looking for . Besides you can do it one step at a time .
Great job Begreen

 

[Frozen Canuck]

As to the 20K, that is probably close for a boiler large enough to handle that load without adding insulation first & storage large enough to let you rest instead of feed the boiler all the time during your heating season. I would not consider going smaller unless you insulate to a much higher R-value first. Basically you need to decide if you just want some warmth (a wood stove) or central & even heat (a gasifying wood boiler). As others have said either way you need dry split wood, some OWB folks will tell you that you can burn anything in it like that was a good thing. Basically all the gassification units are easy to operate once you have gone through the initial learning curve, dry wood being the biggest thing to get right, from what I have read here the Garn that I mentioned earlier is virtually bulletproof as well as more forgiving when the wood is not just right + it deals with both the boiler & storage in a single unit (just the way they are made). Bottom line you will have to assess your own situation, decide what you want & proceed with what you feel is the best course of action for you. Plenty of options & the folks here are great with helping to find answers. Hope this helps.

 

[HollowHill]

Here's a back of the napkin guestimate on how I would budget for this:

Energy audit - $500
Caulking and sealing - $1000
Insulation (blown in walls, batts in attic?) - $2500
Temp storm windows - $300 (make them yourself and reglaze any windows that need it)
Stove and installation $2500
Enlarge door openings to the living room $1000

Total - $7800 of which $6500 qualifies for tax credits

First, I'd like to thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful comments. I really do appreciate the input.

BeGreen, I have several questions based on your post. First, how do you find someone to do an energy audit? We live in the sticks, way in the sticks, and I've not heard of anyone doing this. We do have blown in insulation (from the 60's), which I imagine has settled and is not working that well and 13 yr old insulation in the attic. I think that is working well. We do have the old aluminum triple track storms on the windows. I think a big problem for us is the basement, it is wicked cold down there, between the old bulkhead and dry laid foundation (no mortar at all). I think caulking and sealing would be helpful, could a non pro do that (my husband and I are about as inept as they come )? I know about the $1500 tax credit on the wood stoves, where might the other 5K come from? Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

This should probably move out of the boiler room if it is specifically about energy retrofits.

We live in a rural area and locally decided to send a few folks for training on energy auditing. What county are you in? I can check to see if there is a county program started there. Also, ask your local electric company. Here's a link to some weatherization assistance programs in NY:
http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/Publications/HousingInformationSeries/hiswap.pdf

Each house has it's own issues. The solutions have to be tailored to the house and its unique problems. It could be that a coating of polyurethane foam is the quickest solution for the basement walls, but whether that is a good investment or not will take some investigating. Start a new thread in the Green Room specifically on tightening up this old house in central NY. We'll see if we can get you some answers there.