thinking of a new insert

[ptman]

i currently have a masonry fireplace in a 1950's traditional home that i want to put an insert in. it will be used primarily as a secondary heat source for us. i have found an englander 13 at what i think to be a pretty good price, especially after to tax credit. is this a fairly reliable insert? and are there any others out there that are better at the same price point? i did think about just putting a stove in the fireplace but not real sure about how that will look. any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[begreen]

The 13NCi is a nice medium sized insert, simple and reliable. Whether you could put a stove in the fireplace will depend on the lintel height and depth at the top. It has been done by several members here that have tall fireplaces and moderator BrotherBart has the 13NC's big brother in his fireplace. It looks great, IMO. A block off plate below the damper area is strongly recommended for this type install.

 

[ptman]

the dimensions are 34" w x 31" H x 25" deep and i am also going to have to put a new liner down the chimney

 

[begreen]

The freestanding 13 NC should fit in there pretty easily. How large an area do you want to heat? Is the stove area wide open to the rest of the first floor?

 

[ptman]

the downstairs is about 1400 sq ft. it is pretty open except for one bedroom downstairs, but we only use that one when we have guests. we have another 800 sq ft upstairs also but im not expecting to get much heat up there. the living room, dining room and kitchen are all pretty open and as long as it will keep that warm then im ok. i also have an old insert that my neighbor gave me but it has some rust on it and im not sure what kind it is. it has a rectangular opening on top for the chimney connection. i have been wanting to put that in for a while and just havent gotten around to it. the price of the nc 13 is so low though, it would def be a lot more efficient and not as much work to get cleaned up.

 

[Smoked]

If you think you will ever want to have over night burns, I think you will want a larger firebox. The price point is very good on those, even new. I almoost bought one. If I would have gotten a return call from a voice mail I left, I would have! The extra time that customer service fail gave me talked me into a bigger second stove. The 31" H should give you quite a few options to either slide a top vent stove deep in the box or a rear vent stove partially in.

How much hearth do you have out in front? Can you do an extension or hearth pad?

Once you start burning, you may want more than just secondary heat out of it Also, the old insert you have sounds like a slammer, I would scrap it!

 

[ptman]

I have been thinking that the nc 13 would be smaller than I wanted once I got it. My hearth only sticks out about 15" past the face of the fireplace. I don't want anything that sticks out real far and blocks our walkways. I'm attaching a pic to give a better idea of what it looks like.

The other insert was a slammer.

 

[ptman]

Sorry, hopefully the pic will attach this time

 

[begreen]

Member @Dix has the 13NC up in NY state and gets good performance out of it. As a secondary heat source it will do great in your climate zone and the price is hard to beat. It will burn cleaner and a lot more efficiently (eating less wood) than the old slammer insert. Put that one on the market. Most of your loads will last about 6 hrs. when it's cold out, and up to 8hrs. when the weather is milder as it often is in NC winter. Install with a block-off plate and you will need the blower to help get the heat out from the fireplace or a fan on the hearth blowing into the fireplace.

One important note, modern clean burning stoves need fully seasoned dry wood to burn at their optimum. If you don't have a large stack of split wood already, get some of the best seasoned possible, stack it in a sunny place where the wind can blow through it and top cover it.

 

[ptman]

i just got my splitter working a couple weeks ago, thanks to advice i got on here, and have been splitting when the weather permits. ill probably have about a cord split by the end of next weekend if the weather cooperates and plan to get some more to split by then end of the month to build up a surplus.

there wont be any issue w/ the tv above the fireplace would it? also, i havent been able to find the clearances needed for the nc13, will i need to extend the hearth furhter?

 

[begreen]

You will need 16" of hearth in front of the stove door. If you don't have that then you may need a hearth extender. A mantel shield will help protect the mantel and the tv. It can attach to the underside of the lintel.

 

[Dix]

You rang, BG ?

Love my little 13, it's an awesome heater. It's one draw back is the smaller fore box size. Up here, I get a max of 6 hour burn times, and heat for another 1-2 hours depending on outside temps as BG stated.

The 13 has heated all 2000 SF of this joint (off set ranch, the 13 is on the lower level) on more than one occasion, but only a couple of hours as I was cleaning the chimney on the PE, or wrestling with it's baffle and needed the PE to cool down before I could work on it.

One thing I've learned with the 13, is that you get better burns loading shorter splits N/S, instead of longer splits E/W. While it's a PITA to sort & move delivered firewood from one side of the house to the other, having that shorter stuff really helps during a cold snap.

Link to the 13
(broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/timberridge/stove/timber-ridge-1200-1800-sq.-ft.-wood-stove)

I second the "get your firewood now" advice as well, you won't regret it. Even if you buy some, it will season for next winter stacked in the open and top covered. You won't regret it.

Welcome to the forums !!

 

[begreen]

I get a max of hour burn times

one hour burn times? What do you get during typical NC temps in the 30s and 40s?

 

[Dix]

one hour burn times? What do you get during typical NC temps in the 30s and 40s?

Huge typo Edited to add the number 6

 

[ptman]

i would say average low is in the low 30's to upper 20's here in jan and february w/ highs in the upper 40's and 50's most of the time. we will get the occasional cold snap of highs only in the 30's every once in a while. i think heat wise, the 13 would work for us. although, i do have a tendency to go for the "if it's bigger, it's better" idealogy .

what length fits going N/S in the 13?

 

[ptman]

also, is yours the stove or the insert? i'm not sure i can convince my wife on the aesthetics of the stove in the fireplace so i will probably have to get the insert. a friend of mine has a century insert that seems to be comparable to the englander and he said it has no problem keeping him toasty

 

[Dix]

i would say average low is in the low 30's to upper 20's here in jan and february w/ highs in the upper 40's and 50's most of the time. we will get the occasional cold snap of highs only in the 30's every once in a while. i think heat wise, the 13 would work for us. although, i do have a tendency to go for the "if it's bigger, it's better" idealogy .

what length fits going N/S in the 13?

N/S in the 13 is 18", and it's tight.

I'm in the "bigger or go home" camp myself

 

[Dix]

also, is yours the stove or the insert? i'm not sure i can convince my wife on the aesthetics of the stove in the fireplace so i will probably have to get the insert. a friend of mine has a century insert that seems to be comparable to the englander and he said it has no problem keeping him toasty

It's a free standing stove.

 

[Smoked]

Yea, if you don't want to do a significant hearth extension, a flush mount insert is probably what you are going to be looking at. The Englander is so solid and inexpensive it is hard to go wrong. If you decide down the road you want more, you have lost little if anything.

 

[begreen]

The 13NCi and Century inserts are shallower to accommodate a wide variety of fireplaces. If you want a deeper unit for N/S loading and your fireplace has the depth, look at the Napoleon 1402 or True North TN20 inserts.

 

[ptman]

im not opposed to extending the hearth. redoing the hearth w/ some other stone is something we have talked about a lot in the past. im having a hard time visualizing how much room it is actually going to take up though. also, how tall is too tall in the fireplace? i think it would be tough to get back there to make the connections w/ only an inch or two to work w/. also, where are the nc13 stoves sold? home depot shows them being out of stock and i cant find them anywhere else online. i agree that it is almost too good to pass up. it does qualify for the tax credit also doesnt it? home depot has it listed for $519. if the credit applies too, that's only $219. makes it very tempting if i can find one. i would probably have to make it work

 

[begreen]

Mock up the stove or insert of your choice out of cardboard and insert it in the fireplace to get a sense of size and proportion.

 

[gregbesia]

Please don't get hang up on price alone. Take your time choosing something you can live with for a long time. I have Englander 13 in a insert version. What I like about it is simplicity of use, really fast start ups, tons of heat it produces. I wish I could load it NS for the overnight burn. I feel like I can't really load it fully EW without hitting the burn tubes. NS mine has only about 12 inches.

 

[Slocketman]

I would go with as large of an insert as you can fit (reasonably) in the space while still allowing 3-4"+ of clearance from the stovetop to lintel to be able to secure the liner to the output. Longer burn times are nice & if it ends up overheating the house you can always open some windows upstairs ;-D
Much better than finding out later the insert is too small and the house is cold.

Here're some of my research notes from looking at chimney liners:

Stainless Steel Alloys (cheapest/worst -> best): 304, 316, 316Ti
Liner thicknesses: 0.005" - 0.015"+
- stay away from "smooth wall" type double-laminated liners as the two layers may separate when bumped around during installation
- 0.005" thin 316Ti may be just as durable as a 0.010" 304 alloy liner as long as no metal brushes are used to sweep
- pretty much all liners will have a "lifetime warranty", but if the liner was damaged during installation it likely won't be covered (don't kink/dent that 0.005" steel!)

- that extra-cheap 0.005" 304 liner has a "lifetime" warranty, but it's not going to cover paying for removal/reinstallation if it fails...
- not all have a fully transferable warranty to the next homeowner
- warranty may be void if not swept/inspected yearly​

- get the full 1/2" insulation blanket wrap kit unless the chimney is fully inside the home

- get a bunch more stainless hose clamps or stainless wire wrap to hold the insulation on in addition to the spray adhesive, especially if it's going to be a tight fit in your flue (measure!) or there's a large bend to one side​

Installation notes:
- may need a building permit
- home insurance may drop you for DIY installations, find out first what they need to keep coverage!

- may be able to DIY install and have a certified technician inspect things later, but most insurance requires professional installation​

- make sure any quotes you get include a breakdown of what types of liners/parts they will use to help compare the true cost of the cheap vs. expensive companies

 

[Smoked]

Is your fireplace on an exterior wall? One of mine is much like yours. That stove is 4 inches out in front of the opening with a rear vent and a tee. I can remove the cap of the tee to clean it out without moving the stove. My opening is a little wider than yours but you need to be out in the room a little to have that option. So consider this. A 20 inch deep stove 4 inches out plus 16 inches of ember or r value hearth pad so you are at 40 inches out. If you are ok with that, it is a very workable solution. You don't need a blower and you may not have exterior masonry sucking up a bunch of your BTUs. That makes almost any rear vent stove an option. A free standing stove that is top vent can sit mostly in the firebox with a smaller hearth extension. With the short leg option, the 30 NC others have mentioned should fit. If the fireplace is interior, you get all the heat anyway. If exterior, then insulating the firebox is a bigger deal but you do not need to extend the hearth as much. Block-off plate as suggested above is great advice.

Where in NC are you?

A PE summit insert is another one I looked at. It has lower clearance numbers which is why I was looking at it and it should be a good overnight burner. All of your trim might make that an attractive option.

There are just so many options, it is really hard to get a handle on it all. The price point on the Englanders is hard to ignore. There is a place in the Lynchburg VA area that sells them direct and may be able to get you the short leg option on a 30. If I can find the number, I'll post it.