Three weeks in to my first Pellet stove.

[Lifeline25]

Hi Everyone.

So I’m three weeks in as a new Pellet stove owner and I have a few follow up newbie questions. Hoping you guys can continue to provide the good advice I’ve seen here so far.

I run a Harman Absolute 63.

Fairly happy with it, but I’m convinced it’s running dirtier than it should be. I run Hammer Hot Ones for pellet fuel.

I’m cleaning the glass and scrapping the burn pot every day, and checking the pot holes every three days. I empty the ash pan every 4 bags at most. Seems like the pan is about 3/4 full when I do.

This seems abnormally dirty to me. The glass gets down to about 30% visibility within a few hours of running with a high flame. When I open the door to scrape the pot I get a decent amount of ash falling out from the glass gasket.

I’m also noticing a grind coming out of the auger a few times a day. It’s only a few seconds but it’s loud. Almost as if pellets are getting stuck and it sounds like gears are stripping. Is this normal?

What is going on with this thing?

The dealer came back out and re-sealed the exhaust pipe so now we aren’t having any smoke detector issues. The OAK is fully connected and it’s only a 2 foot run to the outside. I get a nice white hot flame. On start up the smoke is grey and visible during the day but after a few minutes it’s clear.

What do you all think?

I attached a few photos of a start up after a cleaning. The last photo is the glass after one hour. It gets darker and dirtier from there in the same pattern.

 

[bogieb]

That does seem to be abnormally dirty to me, but I run P-series Harmans so am unsure how big your ash pan is (mine go weeks between cleanings even with the worst pellets). I read somewhere that someone else is getting interesting ash out of the Hamers this year, but I wouldn't think it would be that bad.

My P43 runs with a clean glass for weeks, my P61a glass gets dirty, but in a pattern and certainly isn't massively dirty after a couple of days (using same pellets). Your picture doesn't look all that bad - but for an hour of running is probably worse than it should be.

The first picture looks like a great flame but I'm not liking the second picture's flame. Try removing your OAK from the back of the stove and see if there is any change. If so, there could be an obstruction (check inside for clear plastic pieces from the packaging materials - been there). Also, if the OAK flex pipe is not 3", and going around the outside of the pipe on the stove inlet, then it may not be getting the air it needs. If removing the OAK flex pipe doesn't change the characteristics of the fire, then check the air inlet path for the stove for foreign materials.

Last thought, if it has been very humid in your area, that can affect the ashiness of pellets - at least that is my experience. Nothing you can do about that though except wait until it gets cold and dry.

I'm sure others will be along with suggestions.

 

[rich2500]

does the stove spend alot of time on low burn, My Allure burns mostly on a low burn and my glass gets dirty quickly also but when it does get cold enough for the stove to work a little bit the glass stays clean longer and I get less ash. The grinding noise does not sound normal, my Allure has never made any grinding noise. I would try a different pellet and see what your results are.
My Allure glass after 13 hrs low burn

 

[alternativeheat]

What stage of burn was that second shot taken at ? The only time I get a flame like that in my P61 is from an overload of fuel on start up because the stove needs cleaning, more specifically, the ash needs to be removed from below the igniter.

 

[Jim S]

I have a new Harman this year and I was having the same issue with the dirty flame. What I realized was that the vent pipe outside was getting clogged with ash. Due to a lot of humidity and rain, the mesh screen was building up with ash and therefore getting clogged which was causing the stove to get limited air. Look outside and see if this is happening to you. I took it off and cleaned it and vacuumed it out. Now at least once a week I go outside with a dustpan brush, brush the screen clean and tap the bottom of the pipe to let the ash blow out. It is likely due to the moisture plus a cheaper pellet burn.

 

[JR52]

Hi Everyone.

So I’m three weeks in as a new Pellet stove owner and I have a few follow up newbie questions. Hoping you guys can continue to provide the good advice I’ve seen here so far.

I run a Harman Absolute 63.

Fairly happy with it, but I’m convinced it’s running dirtier than it should be. I run Hammer Hot Ones for pellet fuel.

I’m cleaning the glass and scrapping the burn pot every day, and checking the pot holes every three days. I empty the ash pan every 4 bags at most. Seems like the pan is about 3/4 full when I do.

This seems abnormally dirty to me. The glass gets down to about 30% visibility within a few hours of running with a high flame. When I open the door to scrape the pot I get a decent amount of ash falling out from the glass gasket.

I’m also noticing a grind coming out of the auger a few times a day. It’s only a few seconds but it’s loud. Almost as if pellets are getting stuck and it sounds like gears are stripping. Is this normal?

What is going on with this thing?

The dealer came back out and re-sealed the exhaust pipe so now we aren’t having any smoke detector issues. The OAK is fully connected and it’s only a 2 foot run to the outside. I get a nice white hot flame. On start up the smoke is grey and visible during the day but after a few minutes it’s clear.

What do you all think?

I attached a few photos of a start up after a cleaning. The last photo is the glass after one hour. It gets darker and dirtier from there in the same pattern.

I've responded to a few of your posts mainly because I also have the Absolute 63. I have had similar feelings to you that it's running dirtier than it should be and I believe it's mainly due to a flawed design which does not allow enough oxygen into the fire. I've learned to live with the fact that I have to clean it more often and that I will also have a dirtier stove.

Having said that, if it's 3/4 filled after 4 bags, there is something wrong. I have the cheapest of wood pellets and never had to empty until a week or 14 bags. Is this all ash or are there unburned pellets in the ash? If so, I'd recommend turning down your max feed rate to 50% or below until you are getting nearly 100% ash. I've already commented on the glass but nothing I've done has fixed the near instantaneous coat it seems to have on it. The auger will start to make that noise when a pellet gets stuck. I've had it happen a lot and, while it's annoying, it hasn't caused an issue in 2 years of use.

 

[Lifeline25]

I've responded to a few of your posts mainly because I also have the Absolute 63. I have had similar feelings to you that it's running dirtier than it should be and I believe it's mainly due to a flawed design which does not allow enough oxygen into the fire. I've learned to live with the fact that I have to clean it more often and that I will also have a dirtier stove.

Having said that, if it's 3/4 filled after 4 bags, there is something wrong. I have the cheapest of wood pellets and never had to empty until a week or 14 bags. Is this all ash or are there unburned pellets in the ash? If so, I'd recommend turning down your max feed rate to 50% or below until you are getting nearly 100% ash. I've already commented on the glass but nothing I've done has fixed the near instantaneous coat it seems to have on it. The auger will start to make that noise when a pellet gets stuck. I've had it happen a lot and, while it's annoying, it hasn't caused an issue in 2 years of use.

Thank you! Even though it's still new, I'm starting to realize this is just the way it's going to be. I'm glad another 63 owner is sharing the same issues. I am going to try a few different brands of Pellets to see if something changes.

As for the ash in the pan- it's all ash. No unburned pellets.

I'm glad someone else has the Auger noise too. It only happens a few times a day but it gets our attention. I'm going to mention something to the dealer. I already did a full cleaning on it. Even took off the auger cover in the rear and cleaned that out too.

 

[Lifeline25]

I have a new Harman this year and I was having the same issue with the dirty flame. What I realized was that the vent pipe outside was getting clogged with ash. Due to a lot of humidity and rain, the mesh screen was building up with ash and therefore getting clogged which was causing the stove to get limited air. Look outside and see if this is happening to you. I took it off and cleaned it and vacuumed it out. Now at least once a week I go outside with a dustpan brush, brush the screen clean and tap the bottom of the pipe to let the ash blow out. It is likely due to the moisture plus a cheaper pellet burn.

Good call. I did check the vent pipe and it's all clean. It was only installed a few weeks ago so I would have been surprised to see anything in there. I took the pipe off the wall outside and it was mostly clean.

 

[Lifeline25]

What stage of burn was that second shot taken at ? The only time I get a flame like that in my P61 is from an overload of fuel on start up because the stove needs cleaning, more specifically, the ash needs to be removed from below the igniter.

Just like you mentioned it was a fuel overload on start up. We do at times have the flame rolling at the top of the fire box. Luckily I think that was just a bad pic as I almost always have a white hot flame and never really see any lazy orange flames at all except for when the stove is shutting off.

 

[Lifeline25]

That does seem to be abnormally dirty to me, but I run P-series Harmans so am unsure how big your ash pan is (mine go weeks between cleanings even with the worst pellets). I read somewhere that someone else is getting interesting ash out of the Hamers this year, but I wouldn't think it would be that bad.

My P43 runs with a clean glass for weeks, my P61a glass gets dirty, but in a pattern and certainly isn't massively dirty after a couple of days (using same pellets). Your picture doesn't look all that bad - but for an hour of running is probably worse than it should be.

The first picture looks like a great flame but I'm not liking the second picture's flame. Try removing your OAK from the back of the stove and see if there is any change. If so, there could be an obstruction (check inside for clear plastic pieces from the packaging materials - been there). Also, if the OAK flex pipe is not 3", and going around the outside of the pipe on the stove inlet, then it may not be getting the air it needs. If removing the OAK flex pipe doesn't change the characteristics of the fire, then check the air inlet path for the stove for foreign materials.

Last thought, if it has been very humid in your area, that can affect the ashiness of pellets - at least that is my experience. Nothing you can do about that though except wait until it gets cold and dry.

I'm sure others will be along with suggestions.

Checked the OAK today as you suggested and it's all clear right through the outside. I have to wonder if maybe something got up through the flapper on the inside of the unit? I'm going to shut it down tomorrow and check it when I do another full cleaning. Also going to change the pellet brand with a single bag from somewhere else to see if that changes anything.

 

[Lifeline25]

I just did a complete cleanout of the stove and wow was it FILTHY! I mean, black liquid like sludge/tar/whatever all over the ash pan, the bottom of the stove, even in spots up near the burn pot. I think doing an oil change on a car with no gloves would have been cleaner then cleaning out the liquid black crud that came out of this stove. Clearly something is wrong. I get that in the end, there is a flame inside and that means black soot, but I never though it would be like it was, and after only a few weeks and half a ton of pellets.

I switched up the pellets to Lignetics Premium Hardwood and so far I still have the dirty glass issue but the ash has gone down. I also turned down the feed rate to see if it keeps from overfeeding the burn pot a little even though I wasn't seeing unburned fuel in the ash pan.

 

[JR52]

I just did a complete cleanout of the stove and wow was it FILTHY! I mean, black liquid like sludge/tar/whatever all over the ash pan, the bottom of the stove, even in spots up near the burn pot. I think doing an oil change on a car with no gloves would have been cleaner then cleaning out the liquid black crud that came out of this stove. Clearly something is wrong. I get that in the end, there is a flame inside and that means black soot, but I never though it would be like it was, and after only a few weeks and half a ton of pellets.

I switched up the pellets to Lignetics Premium Hardwood and so far I still have the dirty glass issue but the ash has gone down. I also turned down the feed rate to see if it keeps from overfeeding the burn pot a little even though I wasn't seeing unburned fuel in the ash pan.

I'm starting to think this is just an issue with the Absolute as I've ran into almost all the same things including this. If you ever do find out what's going on, please post the solution. I'm certain it's an air flow issue and everyone here will tell you just to clean it (I know) but there is probably something systemically wrong with this model.

 

[chamas]

...black liquid like sludge/tar/whatever all over the ash pan, the bottom of the stove, even in spots up near the burn pot...

THAT is definitely NOT anywhere near normal. Really should only be a mixture of light brownish/ tan light fluffy dry ash with maybe black sprinkled in (kind of like mounds of ground pepper but lighter) and some small gritty clinkers mixed in but no black liquid tar. Was there some plastic mixed in the pellets?

 

[george255]

I agree, that is a pellet brand issue.

 

[Alisajg16]

I have a P35i that runs very similarly. It’s dirtier than I expected (“Harmans are so clean!”), and I’ve been assured by the installer that it’s working just fine.


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[alternativeheat]

Have you undone the two wing nuts below the burn pot where the igniter is, lift off the cover and dig the ash out of there ( not the top of the burn pot but down low in front) ?

 

[alternativeheat]

Harmans run about as clean as the pellets run through them. Big Box store pellets are usually pretty to very ashy. If you get your hands on some douglas fir or AWF Pure White Pine you would see what they mean buy clean and also hot pellets. The thing about Harman to me is even with crap pellets the stove still fires up. But no matter what I shove through this thing I've never seen the mess described by the OP and I've even mixed in chips from my thickness planer and my wood lathe ! Try that with some other brands and see what happens.

Pellet stoves are dirty though, I just cleaned my 32 ft of vertical venting about an hour ago, shower required when done. It's a dirty job period. But it's just powder right to the top, no sloppy wet mess like the op described. That by the way is usually caused by too low a burn temp which the Harman stoves by way of the esp don't allow for that cool a burn, thus why everyone states to clean the stove. Hard to imagine a pellet so poor to cause this though we have seen it before here in the forums. How is the new brand test working out ?

 

[JR52]

Have you undone the two wing nuts below the burn pot where the igniter is, lift off the cover and dig the ash out of there ( not the top of the burn pot but down low in front) ?

This is a great point. Ash build up in the igniter restricts the air flow but be careful not to accidentally unhook the igniter cover because it's quite the pain to put back in. Use the paint brush and try to get an ash vacuum in there. Another good spot to check is in the flue behind the combustion fan. I spent a little extra time there during yesterday's clean and the stove is running significantly better.

 

[alternativeheat]

This is a great point. Ash build up in the igniter restricts the air flow but be careful not to accidentally unhook the igniter cover because it's quite the pain to put back in. Use the paint brush and try to get an ash vacuum in there. Another good spot to check is in the flue behind the combustion fan. I spent a little extra time there during yesterday's clean and the stove is running significantly better.

I use a rag tied on a 1/4" cleaning rod to sweep out in that passage leading to the back of the stove. In my setup I have a clean out T behind the stove, so I just push the ash right on through and out, sneaking the rag past the ESP. I do this on the monthly cleaning, though sometime it becomes every two months because it doesn't need it, again depending on pellets. That hatch to the igniter I clean about every two weeks or so, certainly once a month.

 

[papa bears stove]

Have you checked the flapper on the air intake? I’ve seen this stuck before and it has caused the same issues you are seeing with your stove.

 

[Lifeline25]

Have you undone the two wing nuts below the burn pot where the igniter is, lift off the cover and dig the ash out of there ( not the top of the burn pot but down low in front) ?

Yes. I make it a point to vacuum this out every time I do a complete cleaning which is about every two weeks.

How is the new brand test working out ?

So I did a complete clean out, ran two bags of the Lignetics, and did a complete clean out again. I noticed a tangible difference between the two. The Lignetics was clearly cleaner. Right away I saw a difference when I opened the main door (stove off) and I didn't get a hand full of ash falling off the door onto the floor. The ash left in the burn pot was fluffy and very light. The ash pan after two bags looked like it could hold another ton vs the Hammers where I'd already be thinking about emptying it. When I scraped the burn pot, it was a very easy clean up vs the Hammers where it felt like I was scrapping off burnt grease from a cooking pan where something was left on the heat too long. This time nothing was flaking off the sides of the burn pot. The glass was still poorly visible, that didn't change. But the stove was noticeably cleaner after two bags.

I also noticed- No noise out of the Auger with the Lignetics after I cleaned out the auger housing access in the rear. The Hammers had tons of fines caked up in there.

Now I'm torn. I'd rather just go buy more Ligenetics and say screw the other half of the Hammers. This whole setup cost me $7,000 and I don't want to run crap through it. But on the other hand, I also don't want to waste half a pallet.

I'm guessing we will just push through the Hammers and then never go back. I've also learned my lesson on just blindly buying a pallet without testing a bag or two first.

Going to try and find some softwood pellets also. I'm thinking because this unit is SO big, and we have it located in the most liveable part of the house, that it just really isn't running as hot as it needs to clean itself a little. I payed close attention to the flame height the last few days and when left on Room Temp mode- the flame only ever went above a half height about 20% of the whole time the stove was on. My house holds heat really well so once the stove and the rooms are up to Temp, the feed rate automatically adjusted to like a 10% rate and it was a low flame mostly. I figured that might happen and I wanted to go with a smaller stove but the dealer sold me...

Have you checked the flapper on the air intake? I’ve seen this stuck before and it has caused the same issues you are seeing with your stove.

Yep. I actually just pulled off the 3" flex intake pipe a few moments ago to check again. It's clear to the outside and the flapper inside the stove moves freely with virtually no resistance. I do wonder though- sometimes at start up the flame will flicker a lot very fast for a few seconds. Once the fuel overload is done this doesn't happen again. I wonder if the flapper could be taken off or propped open for good. Wouldn't you want the stove to have it's max available airflow at all times or is the flapper that useful?

Another good spot to check is in the flue behind the combustion fan. I spent a little extra time there during yesterday's clean and the stove is running significantly better

The last time I did a complete clean I spent some extra time back there as well. Thankfully I didn't notice much dirt back there at all. Actually, despite my complaints about the rest of the stove being filthy, the combustion fan behind the ash pan, and the area of the flu behind it leading up to the ESP were very clean. The brush that came with the stove didn't really pull much off the fan. I checked the outside portion of the flu as well and it seemed very clean. When the stove first starts up you can see a mildly dark blue smoke coming out of the exhaust but once it's running, you never seen anything but the heat ripples right at the outermost edge of the screen.


I guess my biggest surprise is that- I had read several reviews online saying the Hammers were a good quality brand. My dealer must have had about 60 pallets of them and he couldn't even keep them in stock. Sells out every two weeks. I generally assumed this was a great pellet. Maybe I just got a bad batch?

 

[jackhammer]

I would talk to your dealer about returning the Hammers you have left. If there are quality issues like it sounds, they should take them back.
Nobody has really explained the “auger grinding”. In the Harman P series stoves, that’s exactly what is happening. Pellets that are too long are “ground” to size. Depending on the pellets, it may happen often, or not. I can’t speak to your model, but if has the same set up, that’s what that is (in my opinion). If that is what’s happening, there is a fines box behind the stove that needs to get cleaned out on occasion. For me once a ton.
As far as the Absolute being too big a stove stove for you, I think many would agree with the bigger is better as far as stoves go! Maybe not. My P61 stove heats my 2000 square feet with no problem and I do agree that the next model up would have been a little overkill, but to me better to have too much stove then not enough. I would hope that any dealer would not sell you more then you need. Best of luck with the fine tuning that goes with pellet stove ownership, most here offering advise love their stove and the heat they provide!

 

[Mt Bob]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-touch-control-authorized-dealer-only-menu.167056/

 

[alternativeheat]

It sounds like the pellets were the problem . Running in low burn will not be as clean as a higher burn but it also shouldn't cause the gunky mess you described having to clean with the Hamers. Usually it amounts to a bit more ash on the door glass and maybe some dime sized carbon deposits on the burn pot to scrape off. The ash might be a little darker but still fluffy compared with a high burn. FWIW in my p61 when I run in stove temp ( constant burn ) auto the stove runs longer with a low flame than a high flame, room temp auto will produce periodic larger flames by far . Room temp plays the up and down flame routine and if it's warm enough out the stove will shut down periodically.

As to using up your crappy pellets just mix them in 1/3 or so at a time with the good ones till they are gone.

 

[cabinet guy]

Something is strange for sure. I’ve had my absolute 63 just over two weeks and there is hardly any ash in
ash pan and the pot doesn’t even seem to need scraped. I’m burning Vermont Wood Pellets.
I burned Energex in my p43 and they create way more ash but still burn just fine.
Vermont pellets are the most expensive, energex are mid range price.
Good luck getting it running proper