Timberline / resolute acclaim refractory question ?

[Thedismisser]

I know other companies have used steel for this . Is there a reason why we can't replace the fibre board with steel and pack the back and sides with a 2600 + degree matting ???
Don't understand why it wouldn't work ..

 

[begreen]

The refractory assembly is a precisely metered box in which the secondary combustion occurs. Temps in there are very high. That is why it's ceramic instead of metal.

 

[Thedismisser]

Melting point of steel is the same as the original stuff from what I've read and someone else on here has made one and it has worked great for them . But they made theirs out of kaowool .

 

[stovelark]

There's the simple matter of you should never alter or modify any wood burning appliance. It is listed and tested with MFR's material, may not sound like a big deal, but your insurance co would be concerned. Good luck, use what it is/was made with.

 

[Thedismisser]

There's the simple matter of you should never alter or modify any wood burning appliance. It is listed and tested with MFR's material, may not sound like a big deal, but your insurance co would be concerned. Good luck, use what it is/was made with.

I realize this but just like most manufacturers they are out to make money during and after the sale . Boilers that run power plants use stainless steel and this is where I'm beginning to question the combustion chamber material .
They wouldn't benefit from making a stove that lasts a lifetime.. Now I'm not saying stainless will last a lifetime but I'm guessing it will last a really long time.

 

[webby3650]

I've considered making one for an encore out of skamol. The same stuff that Jotul makes their baffles from. But after looking at a factory piece, there's just no way to recreate it in my opinion. There are so many angles and nooks and crannies and ups and downs! They are there for a reason, if it could just be a simple box, that's what they would have done. That combined with liability, I decided to skip the idea.

 

[Thedismisser]

Have you actually looked at the inside of one ?
They are very simple .
I took the top off and there is about nine slats inside . One straight in the middle two angled slightly towards the middle one and the rest keep angling in . Not really rocket science to copy .
You can make an exact copy quite easy ...

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you have decided to try this. Let us know how it works out.

 

[webby3650]

Have you actually looked at the inside of one ?
They are very simple .
I took the top off and there is about nine slats inside . One straight in the middle two angled slightly towards the middle one and the rest keep angling in . Not really rocket science to copy .
You can make an exact copy quite easy ...

If its so easy go for it.
After all I'm sure VC just had the janitor or wash boy throw something together one night.
In reality they spent many thousands of dollars on R&D, engineering, and testing. It's made of a material that seems very fragile, but in that environment is really pretty durable. If steel or iron was an option don't you think they would have used that? They own their own foundry.

 

[Thedismisser]

I will keep you all posted.
And webby3650 the only reason I believe the chamber is made of that material is to help keep emissions down . Stainless will heat up more resulting in a little less efficient stove.

And once something is built its not all that difficult to disassemble and recreate.
Manufacturers spend billions on research and design and there is always someone that improves the design or modifies it with great success that isn't an engineer .
And I bet you have a few items that are generic kicking around the house that one company spent thousands on and another just copied it .

Two things I believe will happen with S.S

It will absorb heat - taking away from some efficiency

Taking away the efficiency will raise the EPA rating .

 

[webby3650]

I will keep you all posted.
And webby3650 the only reason I believe the chamber is made of that material is to help keep emissions down . Stainless will heat up more resulting in a little less efficient stove.

And once something is built its not all that difficult to disassemble and recreate.
Manufacturers spend billions on research and design and there is always someone that improves the design or modifies it with great success that isn't an engineer .
And I bet you have a few items that are generic kicking around the house that one company spent thousands on and another just copied it .

Two things I believe will happen with S.S

It will absorb heat - taking away from some efficiency

Taking away the efficiency will raise the EPA rating .

Yes, but my "generic" items don't have a fire in them.
I really feel that if the box is made from steel it will warp like crazy! All the parts around it in the back that were metal warped, I would expect no different for the box itself.

 

[begreen]

Two things I believe will happen with S.S

It will absorb heat - taking away from some efficiency

Taking away the efficiency will raise the EPA rating .

I think they used ceramics for durability at sustained high temps as well as for insulation. The refractory material is both an insulator and more stable at higher temperatures. These attributes contribute to higher secondary temps which leads to better combustion efficiency. I think the stainless will radiate more heat and the secondary combustion temp will be lower. And it will want to warp given the extreme range of temps during daily burn cycles. It still may work, but I agree for these reasons it may not burn as cleanly. A kaowool jacket will help here. I also suspect it will be tricky to get the right air mix and combustion swirl in a stainless box without a lot of testing and instrumentation. That said, it sounds like a interesting experiment. I'm looking forward to your results. Do you have access to any emissions testing equipment?

 

[zzr7ky]

I am interested in your results. All the best,
Mike

 

[dougand3]

Kaowool board refractory thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/home-made-refractory-package-for-resolute.38285/

 

[Thedismisser]

Kaowool board refractory thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/home-made-refractory-package-for-resolute.38285/

Ok for those that are reading / following
.....
I'm not using stainless steel that is available at your hardware store .
I'm using 1/4 inch stainless that is in incinerators that reach 29,000 +degrees and run 24/7 so warping will not be an issue .
And the more research I do actually suggests a more Eco friendly stove but way too expensive for a regular home consumer to purchase ...

 

[begreen]

29000? What welds it?

 

[Thedismisser]

29000? What welds it?

There is tiles that are laid over the joints of the boilers . These tiles are the same tiles that elate used on the space capsule furring re-entry .

 

[begreen]

What welds the joints? At that temperature it is sounds quite exotic. Link?

 

[webby3650]

Exotic for sure! To the average consumer this mod, (if it works) will cost way more than the stove was ever worth.

 

[Thedismisser]

Waste management ...
Using their material to their said specs.
Boiler temp is a read out on their tipping floor and we have to keep it between 27,000 and 29,000 .
It's a garbage biting plant with boilers the size of your living room and dining room together ...

 

[Thedismisser]

Waste management ...
Using their material to their said specs.
Boiler temp is a read out on their tipping floor and we have to keep it between 27,000 and 29,000 .
It's a garbage biting plant with boilers the size of your living room and dining room together ...

You will find the melting point of stuff but that isn't the vaporization / burn point . Say steel melts at 2500 degrees ... It's still there .... It hasn't burned you have just transformed it to a liquid ....
I'm sorry I'm not a janitor or whatever else ......
Melting point is different than combustion ....
Incinerators that burn your trash that you throw away reach extreme temps . I'm using this steel to build my stove and I'm using the fire bricks / tile that these boilers use .
Dry steam is what the boilers produce.
Can't see it but only hear it. If you cross a tube that is leaking it will cut you in half ....
We are talking about your trash in to electricity .
Picture a huge loader loading a boiler full of whatever you throw in the trash . That is not your normal stove....

 

[begreen]

Got the picture. I have been studying these incinerators for a county project. This is not your ordinary stainless for welding. Do you have the welder to do this?

 

[Thedismisser]

Got the picture. I have been studying these incinerators for a county project. This is not your ordinary stainless for welding. Do you have the welder to do this?

It is the companies welder. I'm using all their material and tools.
It is what we have left over in the shop .
I probably shouldn't have asked the question about this project here . And I don't think you understood the depth of material I'm using until I posted the last post .
I have sheets of this stuff and boxes of te that they were going to throw out ...
I took it and questioned the combustion chamber of my stove .

That's when I really started to think about everything and realized my job deals with temps 15 times what a normal wood stove sees ...

 

[Thedismisser]

Almost completed .
Think it will work better than the previous .....

 

[bholler]

I don't see how if you do get proper combustion in that chamber that you will not end up warping that really quickly but hey its your house and your stove. I am curios to see how it works