TL300, Isle Royale, or Other?

[djlarson77]

I’m close to making a decision on a wood stove, but wanted to sign up here and get some opinions first. Thanks to many of you for my wood stove education so far, I’ve learned a lot from you already. If I had to base my decision solely on dealer owners/salespeople there’s a good chance I would end up unhappy with my stove purchase. I’ve poured through many threads here but not all, so hopefully my situation is somewhat unique and worthy of a few replies.

I think I’ve narrowed it down to the QF Isle Royale or Harman TL300, but also open to other suggestions. I plan to heat my home (central MN) entirely with a wood stove. The house is a 3-level split, 1,750 Sq. Ft., built in 1987. The stairs are located in the center of house. The stove will be placed on the lower level (1/2 flight down) in a small family room (12x20). I should have about 20 feet of 6” pipe running up through the center of the house. I’m fairly confident I can move the air around throughout the house with strategically placed cold air returns and the furnace fan running as needed. We would like to spend some time in the small family room to enjoy the stove. Here are some of my decision criteria and questions/concerns:

--Are either or both of these stoves too big to share the same small room with us? Or will we be able to control the temperature with limited wood volume and damper / air control? I’m ok with operating the stove without a secondary burn while we’re in the room if needed. We’ll be able to fire it up most of the time while not in this room.
--Is a down draft stove (TL300) really as fussy and in need of attention like some people say? I don’t mind babysitting it on the weekend or climbing a semi-steep learning curve to get to a point where I’m comfortable operating it, but when I have to leave early for work I would like to fire it up for a long burn without too much time and attention.
--The stove will be in somewhat of an alcove, so I may not be able to have a side-loader – or at least one of the Lopi’s had clearance issues. I may be able to get by with a right-door side loader. Oakwood won’t work because of its side clearance requirements.
--Either cast iron or plate steel is fine as far as looks go.
--Top load is preferred – side load works too.

We really like the TL300 – it just has a solid feel and is packed full of cool features: long burn time, large ash pan, single lever operation of both top load door and damper in one motion, low emissions, sweet air control lever, and grill and screen options. The Isle Royale is being considered because it’s not a down draft stove and thus may be easier to use. It also might be a little better looking than the TL300. But maybe both of these stoves are too big?

 

[begreen]

Welcome, MG. Both stoves have good reputations. The stove may work in a smaller room if that room is not closed off and there is an easy air exchange up and out of the room to the upper floors. But in this circumstance you might also want to consider a more convective stove as an option.

If you can post a floorplan, it would be easier to comment on heat movement throughout the house. But it sounds like you are on the right track. Try to work with natural convection as much as possible. It is quieter, uses less electricity and will still function well in a power outage.

 

[northwinds]

If you plan to heat your entire split-level Minnesota home with a woodstove, you're going to need a large stove,
such as the ones you're looking at. The Isle Royale is great at producing heat and will cruise in the 500-650 degree
range. Moving the heat around is going to be the trick. It may be that your small family room is going to get pretty
warm (think shorts and t-shirts). Any stove is going to be easier to operate if you have dry, seasoned wood. How's
your firewood supply looking?

 

[summit]

We dealt w/ the Royale when it was produced under the original Dovre name: nice stove, easy to use.... The TL300 is way more stove, and of more solid construction (IMHO) and I think setup better for continuous burning over a season. The small amount of etra learning curve you will encounter to use it is far outweighed by it's superior burntimes and more durable construction... However if you wait till July, Jotul has a nice new top loader coming out then, retailing @2k

 

[northwinds]

I'm going to have to stick up for the Isle Royale here. When it's below zero in Wisconsin, I can heat 2100 square feet
on three loads per 24 hours. We don't use the gas furnace unless we're on vacation. By the specs, the Isle Royale
accepts a slightly longer log than the TL300. Both fireboxes are 3.0 cubic feet by spec. Jags' 8 years of continuous
burning with his Isle Royale speaks for itself. I have no criticisms of the TL300 because I don't know it, but the Isle
Royale is well set-up for continuous burning in the Upper Midwest.

 

[djlarson77]

BG - I'll work on putting a floor plan together and post it as soon as I can. The room is fairly closed off - kind of like a decent-sized bedroom, but the door is near where the wood stove will be and will definitely be open, unless we want a sauna effect. Can you give me an example of a more convective stove? Are the TL300 and Isle Royale not as convective? Where does most of the heat come from on these (I was not planning on using a blower on either).

NW - I have about 1-1/2 cords of white oak split and mostly dried with some other junk wood (Boxelder, Cottonwood, etc) cut/split this spring. I wasn't planning on burning the junk wood in the stove, but I suppose I could once it's dried, right? Maybe I could mix in some lower-BTU-output wood while we're in that room and save the oak for the longer burn times. I also have a bunch of elm to finish cutting up and splitting thanks to Dutch Elm Disease. There are 4 large white oaks that have recently fallen victim to the 2-Lined Chestnut borer waiting to be cut down. I'll eventually have to go off my property, but can probably easily burn wood from the property for 3-5 years depending on the tree-killing bugs. So my wood supply should be decent as long as I can stay ahead of each burning season.

Summit - I've heard (on here) about the new top-loading jotul coming out. Do you know any more details about it? July is not far away, maybe I should wait to see if it will be a better fit for my situation.

One last question - would a pdf attachment work well here?

 

[summit]

The top loader by Jotul just finished up all the final cosmetic tweaks, and I believe is in production as we speak.

 

[begreen]

I'd strongly recommend considering alternative locations first, especially if the goal is to heat the house. A big stove in a small closed off room may turn it into an oven, even with the door open. A small stove can do that in say a 12 x 14 room that has good insulation and just a normal doorway. The heat needs to naturally convect to the rest of the house or it could get uncomfortable quickly.

To post an image make it a bitmap file like a jpeg or bmp. One way to do this is to open the PDF and do a screen capture. If you have problems posting the floorplan or pdf, PM me and I will convert it for you. PDFs can't be posted to the forum.

 

[djlarson77]

Here's the floor plan - if it works. I'll re-attach to another post if it doesn't work.

I'm really set on the lower level, but you do have me thinking about the main level now. I'd rather put it in the lower level - try to move the heat up rather than down - and figure out a way to not overheat the small family room. I realize what I'm trying to do (heat entire house and not overheat family room) is difficult but I'm hoping not impossible.

 

[northwinds]

Your floor plan looks pretty open to me. I had a similar setup in my last house, and a ceiling fan at the top of the stairs
really helped to distribute the heat. I don't have a stove fan, and the heat moved throughout the house.

Your main level is really wide open. Tough call. If your lower level is so hot that you aren't using it much, you're almost better
off to put the stove in the main level. I had kids' bedrooms downstairs, so it wasn't an option for me not to heat it.

It's pretty much conventional wisdom that oak benefits from two years of seasoning, unless you have perfect conditions for
sun/wind drying. I burn junk wood in the spring and fall. It's fine if it's dry and a whole lot better than sputtering oak that's
not ready. You may struggle with your wood the first season or so until you get ahead, but that's no uncommon at all. You'll
just be cleaning the chimney more frequently. If you haven't already, spend some time in the Wood Shed sub-forum where the
pearls of firewood wisdom can be found.

 

[Todd]

I think you will be fine with the stove in the lower level. Having it installed close to your stairs will help big time. As far as stoves go, I'd personally pick the Isle Royal over the Harman to avoid the finiky refactory down draft system, but I'd also wait to get a good look at the new Jotul.

 

[begreen]

Great, that helps a lot. I would consider removing the family room door and widening the opening to at least 6 ft. Another possibility would be a large grille to the living room or to open up the staircase wall between the studs. The trick to promote good supply (warm) and return (cool) airflow. Do that and the stove should work pretty well.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

In your drawing are you thinking of adding those hot and cold returns? If so you might want to think about it and study things. I thought that would be a good idea but I guess it is considered a fire hazard having open vents in the floor(can cause a fire to spread and may not be up to code). I am not sure if you are just showing existing forced air vents.

 

[djlarson77]

I'm showing existing forced air vents, with the exception of the two cold air returns with asterisks, those are proposed.

I like the idea of opening up the family room door wider but i believe that's a supporting wall for that section of the house. There is a partial wall beneath the stair stringer that goes upstairs and I believe I can remove that if I choose. I'm not crazy about a through-wall vent and I'm pretty sure I can get by without it if I have two cold air returns in that room, but I'm not ruling that option out. I think I'm going to start simple and add air-movement options as needed.

 

[begreen]

It's no problem opening up the door. The new opening just needs a properly sized header for the span. Not a big deal, but it would definitely help with heat circulation.

 

[leeave96]

My vote is for the Isle Royle. Consider one with an enamal (or is it porcelain?) finish. I really like the look of these cast iron stoves like the IR and almost bought one. This is just me, but part of wood burning for me is the conversation about the stove, in addition to it being easy on the eyes - burning or not.

Something to consider with your family room is being able to turn down the stove and get a clean burn. From what I have read on this forum, a cat stove works great with turning down the stove and Woodstock makes some really nice soapstone stoves that fill that bill. I too have a small living room that I am installing a wood stove and reading here I found the cat stove and soapstone stove combo would give me the clean burn and a stove that's easy on the eyes ( like the IR) BUT the nice thing about the soapstone stoves is that the heat is more even - not flashy hot and later cold. The soapstone absorbes the heat and gives it up as the fire dies down. Do a search on these type stoves. They may be more suited for your application without running you out of the family room. Search both Woodstock and Hearthstone (which is a beautiful stove but not cat). I bought a Woodstock Keystone, considered a Palladian and a bunch of folks have bought the Woodstock Fireview.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[djblech]

Don't forget Lopi stoves. I have the Liberty and it is a heating machine. I don't know where you are located in MN but Tradewinds out of Isanti is where I got mine and I think they service most of the state. I added the blower and the stove will pretty much heat my 2400 sqft house. If you are not to far away you are welcome to look at my stove and set-up.
Doug

 

[SolarAndWood]

What is the outside access to the family room? With your goal of heating exclusively with wood, you are going to be moving 4 cord plus through the house to the stove every year.

 

[djlarson77]

Thanks BG, I will definitely consider widening of the door if I'm not getting proper air movement.

Bill, I did look at the Isle Royale Mahogony (Cast with porcelin) finish. Very nice looking stove. In fact a guy in southern MN had a floor model with screen and pan warmers (I think that's what they're called) for $2300. Otherwise, a local guy will two-tone paint the black one for me for around 2,300 without accessories. You make a good point about soapstone/cat stoves, I've been taking a second look at these types of stoves.

Doug, I've also taken a second look at Lopi's online (I think I was considering the Leyden b4) - I have brochures in my folder so I've looked at them once or twice already - It's getting a little fuzzy as to what I looked at where since I've been to several dealers, but Lopi's do seem like a decent stove and at least they put together one of the nicest brochures in my opinion for whatever that's worth. I'm in the Elk River area and I have family in the Askov, MN area so maybe i'll take you up on your offer to check out your setup - offer much appreciated.

S&W - believe me I've thought about how nice it would be to have a walkout lower level (that's the setup my dad has for his wood stove in NW WI). We have Nice large windows, the bottom of which are at about stomach level for me and my beautiful girlfriend. We've already purchased a couple of canvas wood carrying bags and may get a couple more. We'll tag-team the moving of cord wood to a closet next to the stove without complaint because we both feel it will be worth it to enjoy our new stove. In fact, there are probably several reasons to just stick with the natural gas forced-air furnace. The gas bill is only $52/mo. averaged over 12 months. $18-$20 of that is for the oven, water heater, and dryer. So we'll be lucky to save $400-500/year burning all wood. I've always wanted a wood stove and the tax credit incentive is just too much to wait. On top of that, my 1987 Rheem Furnace (notorious for crapping out by now) will need to be replaced soon. Call me crazy, but I'd rather replace it with a wood stove than a $5K high-efficiency furnace.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather replace it with a wood stove than a $5K high-efficiency furnace.

You are in good company. I put our early 80s Rheem on the curb when we put our first stove in four years ago. The 500 gallon propane tank was put in the same place last year. While we have more financial incentive because of higher fuel costs, I don't think I'd go back even if it was a wash.

If you like the ruggedness of the steel Harman, I'd also consider the big steel cat stoves for a big firebox with the option of burning at a lower rate. My last stove was top load and I don't miss it. NS loading through the front door works very well.

 

[djlarson77]

Maybe the Blaze King Princess for my situation? Although I'm not crazy about a stove called "Princess" :-/

 

[SolarAndWood]

The princess is no priss. Although, I don't think there is any downside to the King other than the cost of the 8" pipe. Ours sits in the middle of the living space, 3 ft from the couch and 3 ft from where I sit at the dining room table. Big firebox with exceptional burn control. Long burns with junk wood in the shoulder season and will keep up no matter how cold your winter even if you get stuck late at work. The downside of the BK is appearance and lack of a show through the glass. An easy 8 month burn more than makes up for it.

 

[djlarson77]

The princess is no priss. Although, I don't think there is any downside to the King other than the cost of the 8" pipe. Ours sits in the middle of the living space, 3 ft from the couch and 3 ft from where I sit at the dining room table. Big firebox with exceptional burn control. Long burns with junk wood in the shoulder season and will keep up no matter how cold your winter even if you get stuck late at work. The downside of the BK is appearance and lack of a show through the glass. An easy 8 month burn more than makes up for it.

8" pipe is a deal breaker for me, takes too much space out of an already small bedroom above. It seems to me like the Princess would be big enough anyway, especially if I get some air movement going with the furnace fan. I like what you're saying about being right next to it (without overheating I assume) and having exceptional burn control. I read some reviews and watched a couple of videos - I'm impressed. We were sort of hoping to buy an accessory screen with whatever stove to enjoy like a fireplace from time to time, but maybe that's a worthwhile compromise to get the other features I've been looking for.

What do you mean by shoulder season and 8 month burn?

 

[SolarAndWood]

Shoulder season is slang around here for before the real heating season kicks in and after it is over. That is roughly until mid November and after Easter in Syracuse. It can be a challenge with a large stove to burn clean without cooking yourself out of the house. The cat lets you burn slow and low during the milder periods yet still has the high output capability when you need it. We do a continuous burn late September through mid May. The BK is the right compromise for us but we tend to be pretty utilitarian, the stove is our sole source of heat and we both work and have two little kids. Unless it is cold and blowing, we have no problem loading once a day and doing 24 hour burns. With our old stove, I would have to come home midday and have to get up in the middle of the night when it was cold and blowing.

 

[begreen]

I like what you're saying about being right next to it (without overheating I assume) and having exceptional burn control.

This is what I was thinking by suggesting a convective heater. We heat 2000 sq ft with one, but it doesn't overheat the area the stove is in.