To OAK or not to OAK...that is the question...

[newbieinCT]

Finally decided on the p61a. The dealer does not recommend the OAK. Seems like most on this forum do.
I am planning on getting it...unless I hear otherwise...any thoughts?

We have an old house (original from 1890s, additions in 1980s). Getting whole house air sealing and new insulation next month.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!
Meg

 

[bdaoust]

The stove needs air to run, so if you seal up your house, then an OAK might be a good option. I'm not an expert, just formulating an opinion from what I've read on here.

 

[newbieinCT]

The stove needs air to run, so if you seal up your house, then an OAK might be a good option. I'm not an expert, just formulating an opinion from what I've read on here.

Thanks!
I know the question has been posed by quiet a few people here - I did research the threads but I wanted to post since every house is different. I just want to be prepared for when the dealer tries to talk me out of it!

 

[Justin M]

Finally decided on the p61a. The dealer does not recommend the OAK. Seems like most on this forum do.
I am planning on getting it...unless I hear otherwise...any thoughts?

We have an old house (original from 1890s, additions in 1980s). Getting whole house air sealing and new insulation next month.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!
Meg

You do not NEED an OAK for your stove run properly because your leaky house provides plenty of make up air. You WANT an OAK in your situation so that you don't pull more cold air in to your house. All the air being pushed out by your combustion blower through your exhaust vent is replaced by outside air sucked in to your house where it is not air sealed. Having an OAK keeps your house from becoming a vacuum and sucking in cold outside air which you will have to heat. Before I had an OAK I would have a 6 degree temperature differently from one end of the house to the other when it was cold out. Now I only have a 2 degree difference because cold air is not being sucked in and a nice constant thermal loop has been able to set up.

 

[newbieinCT]

Awesome explaination, Justin! Thank you!! Will be calling to order the stove after breakfast

 

[newbieinCT]

Ok... Spoke to guy and told him we wanted p61 w oak. Unfortunately, we had bad connection and he said he would do it but couldn't use the harman because...?? I asked him 2x and the connection was garbled each time. Something to do w the brick behind.... They have to drill through it. Didnt try and talk us out of it.. Just said it was more complicated. Wish I could have heard exactly what he said but he said he would explain later (power outage in his area so he's doing everything by cell today)
He's putting together numbers for us for install... Let's hope this oak/brick issue isn't a killer

 

[Hoot23]

I ran our stove for a season without an OAK. The next year I hooked up an OAK. No more drafty, cold floors. Wish I would have got one when the stove was installed. I had to put another hole in the side of the house.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok... Spoke to guy and told him we wanted p61 w oak. Unfortunately, we had bad connection and he said he would do it but couldn't use the harman because...?? I asked him 2x and the connection was garbled each time. Something to do w the brick behind.... They have to drill through it. Didnt try and talk us out of it.. Just said it was more complicated. Wish I could have heard exactly what he said but he said he would explain later (power outage in his area so he's doing everything by cell today)
He's putting together numbers for us for install... Let's hope this oak/brick issue isn't a killer

Brick as in brick walled house or brick as in hearth brick (aka back of a fireplace).

If they can make a hole for the thimble they certainly make one for a Harman unit with an OAK pass-trough.

If they are going up through an existing fireplace chimney they can also run an OAK beside the flue inside chimney's normal flue.

Please tell us exactly where the stove is going to be installed as in relation to the venting and the house's wall material both inside and out.

 

[newbieinCT]

Hey SmokeyTheBear -
it's a brick hearth on the exterior wall on the exterior of the house. The hearth is in the corner and on the floor (see pics - srry they are sideways - can't turn them on this computer)
Inside wall is brick then drywall. Outside is wood shingle (see pics)

He ended up giving us the price of p61a of $3599 - $200 ($100 harman coupon plus he matched it for another $100 off) = $3300
Total price installed (Stove, Installation (to drill through brick, install OAK, all venting) and tax = $4769

Unreasonable? He's on the way home for the holiday so he is going to go over the numbers with me on Thursday. I thought it would be over 4k, but I guess I wasn't expecting almost $4800. Was thinking more like $4300 or $4400. It'll be worth it, I'm sure. Just a big number right before the holidays

Below are pictures of the current set up - old wood stove (we will remove before install) on the hearth and wood stove pipe on the house side. We will remove the pipe, as well.

 

[Don2222]

Hey SmokeyTheBear - it's a brick hearth on the exterior wall on the exterior of the house. The hearth is in the corner and on the floor (see pics - srry they are sideways - can't turn them on this computer) Inside wall is brick then drywall. Outside is wood shingle (see pics) He ended up giving us the price of p61a of $3599 - $200 ($100 harman coupon plus he matched it for another $100 off) = $3300 Total price installed (Stove, Installation (to drill through brick, install OAK, all venting) and tax = $4769 Unreasonable? He's on the way home for the holiday so he is going to go over the numbers with me on Thursday. I thought it would be over 4k, but I guess I wasn't expecting almost $4800. Was thinking more like $4300 or $4400. It'll be worth it, I'm sure. Just a big number right before the holidays Below are pictures of the current set up - old wood stove (we will remove before install) on the hearth and wood stove pipe on the house side. We will remove the pipe, as well.

There is one more option you may want to consider. I have used stoves with and without and OAK. The stove performs either way but less drafty with an OAK so the room feels more comfortable. However if you live in a dampish area like I do, then damp air coming into the firebox can sometimes make the ash more caked up. It may not happen with every stove. I finally found and tried the Selkirk DT direct temp venting that brings in a little warmenr and maybe a little drier the OAK air arounnd the flue vent. Only one hole needs to be cut into the house and I know that it does wotk very well with a Harman P61a-2 since I have both hooked up to Selkirk DT. The basement P61a DT uses the Masonry Conversion Kit and the converted garage P61a uses the Up & Out kit. It is a more complex install but this is the only venting system with the optional vacuum cleanout which I really luv. After every ton, I burn, I clean the stove and unscrew the venting vacuum cleanout cap and suck out the ash. The P61a and the vacuum cleanout makes this system the lowest maintenance pellet stove I have ever seen!

 

[P38X2]

Looks like a fairly straight forward install to me. Does your dealer know you already have a wood stove? The Harman OAK thimble with the OAK pipe might look a little funky up there though. It has sort of an angular "F-117" look.

I suppose you could put a plug in that existing hole and drill a new one. Maybe that's what your dealer was thinking as the install price seems high.

A coaxial pipe would work nicely with the existing hole.

 

[Lake Girl]

Just sent the Selkirk DT catalogue to your other thread ... "brain broken"

 

[newbieinCT]

There is one more option you may want to consider. I have used stoves with and without and OAK. The stove performs either way but less drafty with an OAK so the room feels more comfortable. However if you live in a dampish area like I do, then damp air coming into the firebox can sometimes make the ash more caked up. It may not happen with every stove. I finally found and tried the Selkirk DT direct temp venting that brings in a little warmenr and maybe a little drier the OAK air arounnd the flue vent. Only one hole needs to be cut into the house and I know that it does wotk very well with a Harman P61a-2 since I have both hooked up to Selkirk DT. The basement P61a DT uses the Masonry Conversion Kit and the converted garage P61a uses the Up & Out kit. It is a more complex install but this is the only venting system with the optional vacuum cleanout which I really luv. After every ton, I burn, I clean the stove and unscrew the venting vacuum cleanout cap and suck out the ash. The P61a and the vacuum cleanout makes this system the lowest maintenance pellet stove I have ever seen!

ahhh...more ideas! My brain is already broken
Seriously, though, thank you for the food for thought. I will consider it. I think we are going to go with the OAK but that is only because it seems like there are many many posts on here saying that OAK is the way to go. It seems to make sense for our situation. We live in Western CT, so I don't knw if that is considering a "dampish area" but I wish there was a way to know the best thing to do. If we install without the OAK, we would then have to consider adding later. If we add, then it might be a waste of money if we don't like it. I will have to read a bit more about OAKs and figure out what works for us. We have the quote for the system with OAK and think we will go that way, but I'll check it over and make sure.

Thanks!

 

[newbieinCT]

Looks like a fairly straight forward install to me. Does your dealer know you already have a wood stove? The Harman OAK thimble with the OAK pipe might look a little funky up there though. It has sort of an angular "F-117" look.

I suppose you could put a plug in that existing hole and drill a new one. Maybe that's what your dealer was thinking as the install price seems high.

A coaxial pipe would work nicely with the existing hole.

coaxial pipe? I'll have to google that one. The stove world is a new one for me...each step of the way is a learning experience
At the very least, I can say I have a whole new vocabulary since beginning my pellet stove research: OAK, fire box, coaxial pipe....too bad there isn't a "pellet stove for dummies" kit out there. I wouldn't have to ask nearly as many questions on here

We don't mind plugging the hole if that is what he had in mind. It shouldn't be too much work. Whatever looks the best. I won't know more until Thursday when I get a detailed explanation. The price does seem a little high, but I'm also getting the stove during a busy season. I'd expect to negotiate a bit more over summer months. I'll post what I find out on Thursday...thanks for the ideas. From the advice so far, I obviously have more reearch to do
Happy Holidays!

 

[P38X2]

Not sure that "coaxial" is the technical term for this type of pipe, but here it is....
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7428)
Vent and OAK intake all in one pipe
Happy Holidays to you too!

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Yes, Selkirk DT is a tough call but there are some serious burners here who like it. Here is more info with pics
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hht-upgrade-using-selkirk-dt.111897/

Piazetta with DT
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/piazzetta-sveva-install-thread.110433/#post-1467368

DT Install with Custom lighted hearth
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stom-lighted-hearth.90555/page-2#post-1184174

Enerzone Eurostar Install using DT
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enerzone-eurostar-install-thread.109405/#post-1441998

Masonry DT Install thread
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...asonary-or-metal-chimney.104406/#post-1352512

Any thoughs on a Raised Hearth with rope light and built in 220v electric heater like this one with a tile mantel?

 

[Don2222]

too bad there isn't a "pellet stove for dummies" kit out there.

No there is no "Pellet Stove for Dummies" but I may refer you to google eBooks "Principles of Home Inspection & Wood Heating" by Carson Duntop Page117 Chapter 6 Wood Stove Section 6.9 Pellet stoves. Unfortunately the web preview does not show all the pages!

http://books.google.com/books?id=JFX3P-XuNagC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Principles of Home Inspection & Wood Heating&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8UK6UsbgK-ezsQS6yID4Bw&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Principles of Home Inspection & Wood Heating&f=false


See pellet stove diagram below from eBook link above! Enjoy

Here is a good book too!
Wood Pellet Heating Systems: The Earthscan Expert Handbook on Planning ...
http://books.google.com/books?id=bdPKLH-QCWEC&pg=PT32&dq=pellet stoves&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v-u6UoD-GO2_sQTM1oDoCA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=pellet stoves&f=false

Click pic to Enlarge:

 

[Madcodger]

I have two stoves. One has an OAK, and the other was installed while I was out of town, and I foolishly allowed it to be installed without one (a dealer recommendation there, as well, which I can tell you often means little). Both stoves burn well. But the one without an OAK creates drafts near the floor (none with the OAK stove) and when we run the non-OAK stove the humidity in the house plummets (western CT probably has far greater problems with dry indoor air in cold weather than dampness).

I still use that non-OAK stove, but this is the LAST season without nm OAK on it (this is also the first!). I may even address that this season, depending on weather. After learning more and experiencing it first-hand, I've become an OAK-zealot. Take it from someone who has direct experience with both and avoid a mistake you will regret (I sure do). You DEFINITELY want an OAK.

 

[Mt Bob]

Hello

Yes, Selkirk DT is a tough call but there are some serious burners here who like it. Here is more info with pics
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hht-upgrade-using-selkirk-dt.111897/

Piazetta with DT
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/piazzetta-sveva-install-thread.110433/#post-1467368

DT Install with Custom lighted hearth
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stom-lighted-hearth.90555/page-2#post-1184174

Enerzone Eurostar Install using DT
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enerzone-eurostar-install-thread.109405/#post-1441998

Masonry DT Install thread
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...asonary-or-metal-chimney.104406/#post-1352512

Any thoughs on a Raised Hearth with rope light and built in 220v electric heater like this one with a tile mantel?

Probably have ground effect and spinner lights on their honda too!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Probably have ground effect and spinner lights on their honda too!

Some of them likely have that and more.


To the OP,

Sure looks to me like a fairly straight forward setup does your dealer actually have copies of those pictures to go by?

Pictures are worth many thousands of words and the reason we like them on this forum.

Don't try to over analyze things, if you are not going to do your own service work there is only one question you need to get answered and then you can take it from there.

That question is how reliable are the dealers in your area and you need to talk to their customers to find that out. You can get the worlds best stove but if the dealer isn't reliable you have purchased a boat anchor.

 

[thadd677]

For those who have an OAK installed, what happens when there is a lot of moisture in the air? A few days ago it was warmer than usual here (50's) and it created fog and a lot of moisture. Does this cause any problems with the stove?

 

[lbcynya]

See my detailed post about Selkirk pipe, this is absolutely the best pipe/concept available...period. Especially for a forced draft appliance.

Downside, dealers prefer "Kleenex" (Duravent), and will likely not have any experience with Selkirk.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lkirk-dvt-content-now-with-burn-photos.73530/

 

[P38X2]

For those who have an OAK installed, what happens when there is a lot of moisture in the air? A few days ago it was warmer than usual here (50's) and it created fog and a lot of moisture. Does this cause any problems with the stove?

Nothing you'll notice while it's burning. If it's not dealt with in the off season, moisture will get in there and rust stuff. Plug the vent and OAK intake with something non porous at the burn season's end and REMEMBER it's there at the start of the following season.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

the other was installed while I was out of town, and I foolishly allowed it to be installed without one (a dealer recommendation there, as well, which I can tell you often means little).

It's funny, I have never heard anybody say that their dealer recommended installing an OAK.

 

[newf lover]

It's funny, I have never heard anybody say that their dealer recommended installing an OAK.

I was just going to say, why is it that nearly every post says the dealer said an OAK is not worth it? I got one because by code it had to be done. Is it too much work for the money you get paid or what? There has to be some explanation because when you read this forum almost every poster says the dealer said I didn't need it.