To split, or not to split??

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

I will be ordering my new stove this week (caliente chilli sunset red, I believe "whorehouse" red was already taken), Pacific Energy Summit classic. I have an abundance of ponderosa pine logs and rounds that have been lying around for nearly three years and are EXTREMELY dry. Since pine burns so fast anyway, should I possibly consider not splitting up the rounds and just burn the logs round?.

My thinking is that since these logs are so dry (kiln dry moisture or less), if I split them up, they will burn up in 10 minutes. Maybe I could get a good fire going and then add a full round to it. What do you think?

 

[mayhem]

I think that buring alot of pine (split or round) is a bad idea unless you're going to have the chinmey cleaned 3x a year.

I would split them if they're bigger than 5-6" diameter. You need the edges to catch the flames and start the logs burning efficiently...you also cannot laod up the firebox as efficiently with rounds as you can with splits.

 

[Eric Johnson]

It's always a good idea to have a mixture of both split and rounds, but I suspect your original premise is right. In any event, I wouldn't split too much of it before you see how everything works.

 

[MrGriz]

I would give them a shot before you split all of them. Pine is not bad wood, it burns plenty hot, it just burns very quickly. I would try a round or two before you pack the firebox with it, especially if it is that dry.

As for pine causing a dirty chimney, that's just not the case. Just as with any wood, if you season and burn it properly, you'll have no more problems with pine than you will with oak, etc...

 

[Gunner]

It is best to have a mix as Eric said. Although, personally I do like to leave it on the bigger side. Once you get into steady 24/7 burning you will be glad you left those 6-8 rounds whole. (The largest a summit can take is 9"dia) The bigger rounds will extend your burn and flatten the heat curve, especially with pine.

When your going to be away from home for 14hrs and it's -20C you break out the big stuff.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Mayhem:

Here is a very enlightening article that Mountainstoveguy had posted for me in another thread. It seems that contrary to belief, pine can actually be just as "clean" if not the cleanest wood to burn due to its complete and very hot burning. Properly seasones pine will contain NO MORE creosote than any other wood!.


Pine doenst contain any more creosote then any other wood, how wood is seasoned is what determins the creosote buildup in the chimney. Pine, IMO has less chance of creosote buildup due to the low density and a high combustion rate.

here is a quote from http://www.mastersweep.com/wood.htm

“Back in the early 1980’s, tests were conducted to discover which kind of wood created the most creosote in a regular “open” fireplace. The results were surprising. Contrary to popular opinion, the hardwood’s, like oak and madrone, created MORE creosote than the softwoods, like fir and pine. The reason for this, is that if the softwoods are dry, they create a hotter, more intense fire. The draft created by the hotter fire moves the air up the chimney faster! Because it is moving faster, the flue gas does not have as much time to condense as creosote inside the chimney. Also, because the flue gas is hotter: it does not cool down to the condensation point as quickly. On the contrary, the dense hardwood’s tend to smolder more, so their flue gas temperature is cooler. Thus, more creosote is able to condense on the surface of the flue. So, saying that “fir builds up more creosote than oak” just isn’t true! It is a misunderstanding to think that it’s the pitch in wood which causes creosote. It’s not the pitch that is the problem, it’s the water IN the pitch. Once the water in the wood has evaporated, that pitch becomes high octane fuel! When dry, softwoods burn extremely hot! “

 

[Michael6268]

If all I burnt was kiln dried pine, I would almost never have to clean my chimney!

 

[BrotherBart]

There is a reason that there are six cords of red oak cooling its heels outside right now waiting for the stove upstairs and three cords of pine waiting for the stove in the office in the basement.

They all have to do with the fact that I am in the office more often to feed the stove. Not a damn thing to do with creosote. Both pipes stay clean with decently hot burns.

The whole southwestern part of the country burns Ponderosa and Pinion and seems to stay warm as far as I can tell.

 

[precaud]

The whole southwestern part of the country burns Ponderosa and Pinion and seems to stay warm as far as I can tell.

Brilliant, I say! Simply brilliant!

 

[begreen]

A good portion of the left coast is heated by fir, pine and spruce too. About 7 years ago we went through 3 cords of fir. I was worried about the stack, had it checked. The sweep said no cleaning needed. And it never was that season or the next. Go on the other side of the Cascades and it's ponderosa pine partner.

 

[Gooserider]

I burn mostly hardwood (cause that's what we have around here...) but I think it's a balance between big chunks burning slower, but possibly not fitting as tightly into the firebox and limiting the total amount of the wood load. It might make sense to wait until you have the stove in hand to see what size and shape fits best into the firebox, then splitting to fit that spec. I might be inclined to experiment with "slabbing" off the sides of the larger rounds to make them into "squares" so that you could fit more of them into the stove at a time...

It is something you will need to experiment with. I found that you really do need a mix - some small stuff for getting the fire built up, and for putting out lots of heat in a fairly short time, and some "all nighter" big splits to give the long slow burn you need to stay warm all night and still have something to get the stove going with when you wake up in the morning.

Gooserider

 

[bcnu]

This sounds good. Now I can stop splitting everything so small. So if I read correctly I should have some larger ie. unsplit pieces for overnight burns? I'm currently spliitng 12-14 inchers, about 16 inches long. Should I split some in half and leave them that way? Or is it more complicated - like larger softwood and smaller hardwood splits?

 

[begreen]

I found the Castine putting out less heat when I tried too big splits. I think you need to judge by the type of wood and strike a balance with the size. FWIW, this year I've split smaller splits.

 

[Gooserider]

This sounds good. Now I can stop splitting everything so small. So if I read correctly I should have some larger ie. unsplit pieces for overnight burns? I'm currently spliitng 12-14 inchers, about 16 inches long. Should I split some in half and leave them that way? Or is it more complicated - like larger softwood and smaller hardwood splits?

It's a balancing act... You have to determine what works best in your stove and decide the priority between heat and burn-time. As we have stated here regularly, a given quantity of wood will contain a certain number of BTU's, and the key question is how fast you get those BTU's out of the stove - You can pick between hot fires, and long lasting fires, you can't have both at the same time. If you were drawing a graph of stove performance, it would have heat ouptut on one axis, and burn time on the other, with your stove showing as a diagonal somewhere on the page, exact angle and positions depending on the stove and setup, etc. However the equation BTU X Burn-time would stay about the same, (equal to the BTU's in the amount of wood you put in the box minus flue losses) along most of the line (until you started to go outside the performance envelope of the stove) So as burn time goes up, average heat output would go down and vice versa.

The general rule is that big splits burn longer, with less average heat output, and little splits put out more heat and burn faster - you decide where on the line you want to be...

Gooserider

 

[BrotherBart]

And I went back just the opposite way as BeGreen. My pre-EPA large firebox stove got a regular diet of large wood. Last year I got on a drier wood kick and split everything smaller. After I replaced Ole Brownie with the 30-NC the small stuff burned entirely too well with the new draft from the liner. This year it will be fed monsters like the old girl was.

Personally I think the big boys are best for N/S buring and the smaller splits for E/W. A combustion air thing.

If you are lighting up a new fire regularly ya gotta have some smaller wood. If you light off in October and shut down in April like we do the big boys are a good way to go. If seasoned.

 

[BrotherBart]

The general rule is that big splits burn longer, with less average heat output, and little splits put out more heat and burn faster - you decide where on the line you want to be...

Gooserider

Except for a large firebox stove loaded with large seasoned splits. That sucker is gonna crank if you give it air.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

I guess I may be in a different situation than most since I may end up burning lots of pine. Our pine is not only dry, but SUPER dry!. Our humidity right now is around 5% (less than kiln dried wood!), and its been this low for a long time.

Since dry pine is literally in the "kindling" category, My thought was to bet a good fire going, then add a big pine round complete..(about 18 inches long).

I like Gosses suggestion of trying to make more of a square out of the round so I can pack in more wood. That might be tough however since I don't have a mill. I do think its a great idea to cut up big 18'' rounds and then lop off two flat sides, thereby making a kind of block that stacks easily. I've just got to figure out a way to do this short of using a mill.

 

[BrotherBart]

SH, quite simply, never pack a three cubic foot firebox full of dry pine. You will have a runaway stove in a hearbeat. EBT or no freakin EBT.

Been there, had a house guest that did that. Stove top temp 1200 degrees. Top of stove glowing red hot (and yes it was 3/8 steel plate just like a Summit). Pipe glowing red hot. Air shut completely down on an airtight, no secondary air, stove.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Thanks for the tip Bro B. We actually do have some better wood around here I am finding out. We also have some Juniper and a smaller version of an oak tree called gambel oak.

A guy who cuts his own wood turned me on to a location not far from my home where there is a stand of gambel oak. We are not allowed to cut live trees but dead standing and fallen trees are okay.

 

[Gooserider]

The general rule is that big splits burn longer, with less average heat output, and little splits put out more heat and burn faster - you decide where on the line you want to be...

Gooserider

Except for a large firebox stove loaded with large seasoned splits. That sucker is gonna crank if you give it air.

Agreed, but I would argue that you are missing my point - If you were to take the same large firebox, load it with the same weight in little splits, and give it the same amount of air, it wouldn't just "crank" it would "melt"... :bug: - the big splits would burn longer / cooler than the same amount of little splits, with the note that you don't want to over / under fire the stove, which is why I was talking about staying inside the "performance envelope" of the given stove.

My statement on burn-time vs. average heat output assumes that all else stays the same - air, fuel mass, stove, etc. and that you can do so without over-firing the stove.

Gooserider

 

[Gooserider]

I guess I may be in a different situation than most since I may end up burning lots of pine. Our pine is not only dry, but SUPER dry!. Our humidity right now is around 5% (less than kiln dried wood!), and its been this low for a long time.

Since dry pine is literally in the "kindling" category, My thought was to bet a good fire going, then add a big pine round complete..(about 18 inches long).

I like Gosses suggestion of trying to make more of a square out of the round so I can pack in more wood. That might be tough however since I don't have a mill. I do think its a great idea to cut up big 18'' rounds and then lop off two flat sides, thereby making a kind of block that stacks easily. I've just got to figure out a way to do this short of using a mill.

Length isn't something I've ever considered something to play with - I try to cut ALL my wood to the same length, which for just about everyone should be the maximum length that will fit in the box (w/ your prefered load direction) minus about 2" - if your "maximum" log length is 20" try to hit 18", (IOW somewheres between 17" and 19" - this isn't precision work....) The only exceptions are if I have a log that has a short length "left over" or if I'm trimming into a gnarly bit...

As to how to "square" a round, again we are NOT talking precision work! This is NOT the kind of thing you'd need a mill for, or even doing a rip with the chain saw. All I'd do is SPLIT four slabs off by using my maul or wedge (maybe a splitter, don't know how they would handle this) to split on a chord / tangent across the edge of the log rather than doing a radial split through the center. This gives you two or four smallish splits and an APPROXIMATELY square "all nighter" from the center.

It won't always work that well in practice, you need pretty straight grained wood cause the split will follow the grain, but it should work often enough to give you some decent blocks. Alternatively splitting triangular wedges will work as well if you stack them into the firebox properly - Think "Firewood Tetris" :coolsmile:

Gooserider

 

[bcnu]

Thanks guys. It's not rocket science - but sounds close. I almost feel sorry for those people that simply turn up the thermostat. ;-)

I have my new, unused, Hearthstone Homestead, so have no burning experience with it. On the other hand, my goal is to have 12-15 cord split and stacked this summer - already have 5 and part of it is from last year. Guess I'll continue to do a variety of splits - but will tend to make them smaller rather than larger... like 8 splits from a 14" log. I am going to set aside some space for larger splits and for some hardwood. The wood shed is 10 by 30 so figure I can get quite a few cords in it. I think I have a case of wood fever - I want more. And when I see a loaded log truck - and this is Oregon so I see them almost daily - I salivate. Can't imagine what gold fever would do to a person.

FWIW - I had the pickup loaded full of maple that took me about 4 hours time(including drive time, cutting, and loading). It's free and pretty close to home. I'm driving home and get behind a pickup that is also loaded with wood - and a big sign that read "firewood. $150 a pickup load) That brought a big smile of satisfaction.

 

[Vic99]

Well, that's nice to know that pine is okay to burn . . . I am in the middle of a remodeling my bedroom. Took the lathe & plaster out so that the walls and ceiling can be replaced with sheet rock . . . I must have scored close to 1.5 cords of lathe sticks and some support 2X4s (all of which I figure are pine) that has been curing in the walls of my house for 85 years! Burned some of it in a fire pit . . . amazing stuff.

 

[MrGriz]

Just be careful burning that construction (or de-construction) scrap. If you load too much at one time, you'll end up with a runaway for sure.

 

[Vic99]

Hadn't thought of that . . . thanks.