Too much Draft !!!!!!!!!

[ddown]

I've had great Luck with my Englander NC-30 until Yesterday when winter got here even with air all the way down lucky to get 4-5 hrs.to embers not coals. I'm thinking I need a pipe damper to help with excessive draft. Stove isn't overt firing but 800 flu temps 500 stove top max on these runs clean glass. Ideas?? BTW 38 foot chimney to cap 8.5 pipe to enter into chase with about 30' straight run. This is burning E/W with good size <dry> black walnut splits.

DDOWN

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah it sounds like you need a key damper in that tall pipe to slow that puppy down.

 

[ddown]

I realize that most of my previous problems were wood, and not having the experience. Things are much better this year" Brother Bart thanks for all your insight.

 

[BrotherBart]

The stoves are designed for a fifteen foot chimney so having to put in a stack damper for an over thirty foot chimney just makes sense. My little Jotul in the basement has to have one with around a thirty some odd foot chimney or it just sucks up a load of wood in an hour or so. Without getting the stove hot enough.

 

[Todd]

What about modifying the air intakes?

 

[drlbuilder]

I would like to know more about modifying the air intakes. My 30 wants to run 800
at tne collar, 350 at 18 inches up on single wall with the air shut down on a load of ash. Should I just move the thermo. and if so what temps soud I be looking for.
Thanks . Don

 

[ddown]

got the key damper much better control of everything. Thanks guys. and BB

ddown

 

[Rockey]

I have about 35-40' of 6" l flue connected to the NC30 in my basement. I added a damper to help control the burn time a bit. It definitely helps but now it is a finicky stove that needs a good deal more adjusting to get a hot burn and decent burn time from it. I find myself running up and down the stairs more than I would like to. Luckily I only have to run it when the lows are in the teens or below, like tonight.

 

[SlyFerret]

When I first started burning, I had a couple instances where my stove took off, even with the air damped back to my normal cruising position, and ran up to about 700 or so degrees stove top.

What I realized was that when this happened, it was because my door was not shut tightly.

Anymore, when I close the door, I make sure that I bump down on the handle a few times with my fist to ensure that the door gasket seals tightly.

500-550 is where this stove wants to run, so if that's the range your in, it's doing what it wants to do. Bart will probably agree that it's difficult to get it to run right at a lower temperature.

-SF

 

[LLigetfa]

What about modifying the air intakes?

That's what I did with my Doghouse mod. My former home had too much draft and I would partially plug the 3/8" hole that supplies zipper air. Problem was it increased coaling. On my current stove I have much less draft so I increased the zipper air to 3/4" and made it adjustable. Much better control over the rate of burn and I can give it more air when I need it.

 

[drlbuilder]

Thanks for the info. I did take the time to place both Rutland temp gauges on the stove top ,the one at the collar and the one from stove pipe set at the front of stove. The one at the collar reads 150 degrees warmer than the one at the front of stove. So is 800 at the collar fine or is 650 at the collar fine? Iburned all red oak last year with no problem. This year I'm saving oak for Jan. Feb. and burning ash ,birch but this stuff realy takes off. Don

 

[mainstation]

Good points here, my question is : Is there any way to control drafting with an insert? Apart from the air draft on the Regency R14, my unit burns well but too quickly. Running 30' of 5" SS flex. Can I modify the insert drafts?.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm not familiar with the Regency but my RSF is a zero-clearance fireplace and had no option of a damper in the flue so controlling combustion air was and is my only option. If your problem is with too much zipper air on the coals, a good quick test is to put a piece of firebrick against the doghouse opening. If you can access where the zipper air enters, you might be able to partially block it with a magnet of something. I just stuck a pipe that had the right OD in the hole so the ID of the pipe restricted the air.bbb

 

[Battenkiller]

I've had great Luck with my Englander NC-30 until Yesterday when winter got here even with air all the way down lucky to get 4-5 hrs.to embers not coals. I'm thinking I need a pipe damper to help with excessive draft. Stove isn't overt firing but 800 flu temps 500 stove top max on these runs clean glass. Ideas?? BTW 38 foot chimney to cap 8.5 pipe to enter into chase with about 30' straight run.

This is interesting. I'm having the opposite problem with my VC Vigilant when I close the damper for long, efficient burns. I have a 25' centrally located masonry chimney with a 7" x 7" square liner. I've been getting the flue temp up to about 600ºF in updraft mode, running it about 15-20 minutes, adding a split or two and then shuting the damper. Flue temps quickly drop to 300º and stove maintains 700º. I know that sounds ideal as far as heat output, but the local stove guys (20+ years experience with VC stoves) said I need to run the stove so I get flue temps between 400º and 600º with the thermometer placed on my single-wall flue pipe 18" above the collar. He recommended installing a key-type damper even though the PDF I downloaded says they are not desirable. The guy I talked to said that I may be getting too much draft because of the tall chimney and basement installation, but your somewhat similar situation seems to be giving the opposite result (high flue temps and low stove top temps).

I'm really confused. I've never used a flue thermometer until this year when I got this stove as a replacement for my worn out one. The thermometer came with the stove. I started using it and now I have all kinds of questions (worries).

I was a lot more content when I didn't have a thermometer. Seems ignorance is indeed bliss.

 

[Todd]

This is interesting. I'm having the opposite problem with my VC Vigilant when I close the damper for long, efficient burns. I have a 25' centrally located masonry chimney with a 7" x 7" square liner. I've been getting the flue temp up to about 600ºF in updraft mode, running it about 15-20 minutes, adding a split or two and then shuting the damper. Flue temps quickly drop to 300º and stove maintains 700º. I know that sounds ideal as far as heat output, but the local stove guys (20+ years experience with VC stoves) said I need to run the stove so I get flue temps between 400º and 600º with the thermometer placed on my single-wall flue pipe 18" above the collar. He recommended installing a key-type damper even though the PDF I downloaded says they are not desirable. The guy I talked to said that I may be getting too much draft because of the tall chimney and basement installation, but your somewhat similar situation seems to be giving the opposite result (high flue temps and low stove top temps).

I'm really confused. I've never used a flue thermometer until this year when I got this stove as a replacement for my worn out one. The thermometer came with the stove. I started using it and now I have all kinds of questions (worries).

I was a lot more content when I didn't have a thermometer. Seems ignorance is indeed bliss.

Sounds like your stove is working perfectly to me. A 400-600 external pipe temp is way to high and would be wasting all your heat up the stack. When you shut the damper the temp should drop and run lower than the stove top. Maybe your local stove guy was confused with external/internal pipe temps. Internal temps run approx double the external temps.

 

[Battenkiller]

Sounds like your stove is working perfectly to me. A 400-600 external pipe temp is way to high and would be wasting all your heat up the stack. When you shut the damper the temp should drop and run lower than the stove top. Maybe your local stove guy was confused with external/internal pipe temps. Internal temps run approx double the external temps.

H-mmm...

The main thing is that I don't want to build up creosote. I was getting tinkling sounds coming from the flue pipe right after I shut it down from a hot burn. Sounded like burning creosote to me. The guy I mentioned said the Vig was always a big creosote maker and needed to be run quite hot to avoid it. He said it was a high volume/low velocity stove when run with the damper shut due to the very long horizontal flame path slowing all the air down. Made sense to me the way he described it.

I've always burnt off creosote in the past, but I don't know how much (if any) is accumulating farther up the stack since I just started using this particular stove this season. After my first cleaning, the sweep can let me know how much (if any) creosote he found, and where in the stack he found it. The guy I mentioned was very clear on specifying it was 400-600º on the outside of the pipe. He said an internal probe type might be better (I guess it's like twice as high), but that as long as I was using single wall pipe the magnetic external thermometer was "close enough".

I'm also a little concerned that the stove ran all day at 350º flue temp and 700º stove top temp - 100º higher than I'm supposed to be running it. The thermostat had the primary air flap shut all the way once the stove was cranking, so the only way to shut it down further would be to close down the secondary air. Not sure if that's an option... still learning this stove. I don't mind running it at 700º some of the time, but I don't want that to be the "normal" running temp.

I used a key-type damper with the old stove, a Jotul 118 clone. That one had a 5" flue opening that I used an adapter on to bring it to 6", and then again up an inch at the 7" thimble. The damper was in the vertical section just ahead of the the first elbow. When you closed that damper, you could just feel the stove heat up. I suspect the same would happen with this stove as the heat would be more contained. But maybe it would then drop back down again once it stabilized.

Does that sound right or am I way off base?

BTW, heating the chimney isn't such a bad thing for me. It's pretty massive (two separate flues side by side) and once it gets warm, it radiates heat long into the next day. All three of my floors (basement and two uppers) are right about 72ºF - just perfect for the ever chilly lady of the house.

BK

 

[Todd]

Sounds like your stove is working perfectly to me. A 400-600 external pipe temp is way to high and would be wasting all your heat up the stack. When you shut the damper the temp should drop and run lower than the stove top. Maybe your local stove guy was confused with external/internal pipe temps. Internal temps run approx double the external temps.

H-mmm...

The main thing is that I don't want to build up creosote. I was getting tinkling sounds coming from the flue pipe right after I shut it down from a hot burn. Sounded like burning creosote to me. The guy I mentioned said the Vig was always a big creosote maker and needed to be run quite hot to avoid it. He said it was a high volume/low velocity stove when run with the damper shut due to the very long horizontal flame path slowing all the air down. Made sense to me the way he described it.

I've always burnt off creosote in the past, but I don't know how much (if any) is accumulating farther up the stack since I just started using this particular stove this season. After my first cleaning, the sweep can let me know how much (if any) creosote he found, and where in the stack he found it. The guy I mentioned was very clear on specifying it was 400-600º on the outside of the pipe. He said an internal probe type might be better (I guess it's like twice as high), but that as long as I was using single wall pipe the magnetic external thermometer was "close enough".

I'm also a little concerned that the stove ran all day at 350º flue temp and 700º stove top temp - 100º higher than I'm supposed to be running it. The thermostat had the primary air flap shut all the way once the stove was cranking, so the only way to shut it down further would be to close down the secondary air. Not sure if that's an option... still learning this stove. I don't mind running it at 700º some of the time, but I don't want that to be the "normal" running temp.

I used a key-type damper with the old stove, a Jotul 118 clone. That one had a 5" flue opening that I used an adapter on to bring it to 6", and then again up an inch at the 7" thimble. The damper was in the vertical section just ahead of the the first elbow. When you closed that damper, you could just feel the stove heat up. I suspect the same would happen with this stove as the heat would be more contained. But maybe it would then drop back down again once it stabilized.

Does that sound right or am I way off base?

BTW, heating the chimney isn't such a bad thing for me. It's pretty massive (two separate flues side by side) and once it gets warm, it radiates heat long into the next day. All three of my floors (basement and two uppers) are right about 72ºF - just perfect for the ever chilly lady of the house.

BK

I'm no expert on your stove so maybe it would be a good thing to start your own thread to bring out some other VC owners or do a search for your stove to find more info. 400-600 external temp on my single wall is equal to 900-1400 on my internal probe 20" from stove collar and since my s/s liner is only rated for a little over 1000 degrees continuous, I keep it under 1000 with the bypass damper open.

 

[ddown]

Ok I put in the key damper leave it open for a good hot start and then close it about 50% then control air intake. good slow fires going right now it's 700 with a probe on pipe, 600 on stove top- I do notice the stove temps go up when I close down but loads of wood are lasting much longer sound about right??? Just want to make sure it's right.

 

[begreen]

Sounds ok. You may be able to close the damper even further once a fire is well established.