Trouble-shooting Quadrafire Mt. Vernon OE

[Gopher69]

Trying to trouble shoot Quadrafire Mt. Vernon OE. This stove is about 10+ years old and the 'original' edition model.
Problem I'm having is that pellets are not dropping into the fire pot.

Let me backup a bit..... When this first started I thought issue was related to the #1 Snap Disc, so ordered a new one.
I now know #2 Snap disc controls the Auger motor, but let me continue....

Thinking the issue was #1 Disc, I ordered the #1 Disc and ready to install... Major mistake on my part, I didn't shut off power to the stove before beginning installation, lessons learned ! So I disconnect the 2 'purple' wires to the #1 Snap disc terminals, to change out, and moved them out of the way. Somehow the 2 wires with 'spade' terminals touched metal surface on the stove, and sparks flied, and one of the spade terminal plastic covers got melted.

This goes from bad to worse doesn't it ?
So now I have to cut the spade terminal connector, and install a new one on one side of #1 Snap disc terminal.
Got everything back together, attached #1 snap disk back on terminals.
I checked the #2 Snap disc, performed a continuity check and all good. This switch has a 'manual' reset button, but button was not tripped !

Turned power back on, turned stove on, and blower came on ok, but pellets are not dropping and ignitor doesn't seem to work, I assume if the pellets are not dropping, sensors pickup on that, so the Ignitor will not work ?

Sorry for the long read, but can folks, provide me some feed-back what's going on here ?

Thanks !

 

[Ssyko]

no sensors to detect pellet drop. Unplug the stove and pull your control box and open it up and see if any traces are burned. Im thinking the short burned something on the board or if you got lucky just the on board fuse blew. See pic for fuse (Small green component



hold the board up to a bright light and you will have to look for traces (shadowed lines) that seam to disappear.

 

[Gopher69]

no sensors to detect pellet drop. Unplug the stove and pull your control box and open it up and see if any traces are burned. Im thinking the short burned something on the board or if you got lucky just the on board fuse blew. See pic for fuse (Small green component

View attachment 256398

hold the board up to a bright light and you will have to look for traces (shadowed lines) that seam to disappear.

View attachment 256400

Have no idea what happened, but I disconnected Snap# 1 & 2 and reconnected.
I also noticed what I thought was the 'manual' reset trip switch on Snap Disc #3, this Disc is a burn-back protector. I swear that trip switch was in the 'opt-up' position, so I pressed in down to reset.
Honestly, I didn't seem to noticed it was depressed?

Anyways, I turned the power back on to stove and pushed the stove thermostat up to 80 !
Stove came on and began dropping pellets, go figure ????
It's been running for 15 min now, w/o and issues, and crossing my fingers !
I'll chalk this issue up as a fluke, it's running now and that's all I care about.
I've learned a lot more about this stove and it's quirks.
This is my first year with the stove, and learning as I go....

Thanks for your feed-back, much appreciated !

 

[Gopher69]

Have no idea what happened, but I disconnected Snap# 1 & 2 and reconnected.
I also noticed what I thought was the 'manual' reset trip switch on Snap Disc #3, this Disc is a burn-back protector. I swear that trip switch was in the 'opt-up' position, so I pressed in down to reset.
Honestly, I didn't seem to noticed it was depressed?

Anyways, I turned the power back on to stove and pushed the stove thermostat up to 80 !
Stove came on and began dropping pellets, go figure ????
It's been running for 15 min now, w/o and issues, and crossing my fingers !
I'll chalk this issue up as a fluke, it's running now and that's all I care about.
I've learned a lot more about this stove and it's quirks.
This is my first year with the stove, and learning as I go....

Thanks for your feed-back, much appreciated !

SPOKE TOO SOON !!
Pellets stopped dropping again ^&*)(&#^$*&@TRG@(*&)($*(
Stove ran for 15 min fine, pellets were dropping no issues, then just stopped for no reason ?

Thoughts ????

 

[Ssyko]

check the thermocouple is touching the inside of the cover and that it is over the edge of fire pot 3/4 - 1 inch.

 

[Gopher69]

check the thermocouple is touching the inside of the cover and that it is over the edge of fire pot 3/4 - 1 inch.

Checked, cleaned and adjusted thermocouple as instructed.

Stove start, dropped pellets and ran for 15 min. The stove stops dropping pellets, and the blower still runs for about 10 min then shuts off. This is the second time with same results.

All Snap discs were NOT tripped, but not sure if they're working as they should ?
Snap Disc #2 turns off the feed system to the Auger, and also turn off the stove if an 'over-fire'
condition occurs, or if the 'convection' blower, should fail to operate.
I still believe this is the issue, and the #2 Snap Disc is the culprit.
For the price of $20, I'm going to purchase the Disc and eliminate this as the cause.

Snap Discs are controlled by 'temperature', that flips a small disc inside in/out that make them work.
I think the stove is reaching a certain temperature, then trips the switch, at least that the way I'm told they work.

 

[Ssyko]

Are you getting a green light when the stove is in start up? If you dont get green then a red the stove will stop feeding and shut down.

 

[Gopher69]

Are you getting a green light when the stove is in start up? If you dont get green then a red the stove will stop feeding and shut down.

My stove is an older model Mt Vernon, and 'does not' have any lights, other than a 'red' light that indicates that power is on, or when thermostat is calling for heat, and signal sent to drop pellets.

I understand that 'newer' models actual have a control panel with various colored lights that indicate certain functions, but my stove does not have this feature.

 

[Ssyko]

If the “control box” has no lights (not on a panel)i would recommend a new thermocouple. That is what tells the stove to continue feeding pellets.

 

[Gopher69]

Stove ran fine for 15 min, pellets were dropping as they should no issues, then stove just stopped for no reason ? The 'Convection' blower never came on, and is suppose to kick-on after 10 min of operation.

FYI, I have replaced both Snap Disc's #1 & #2. I have also checked the rubber hose to the 'vacuum' switch and it was clear.

Thermocouple and cover all look good, Cover is touching the Thermocouple and positioned about 1" into the burn-pot.

Now have no clue of my next steps???? Your suggestions are appreciated !

 

[Gopher69]

New Thermocouple and Cover has been ordered, will arrive next week.
After I install and test stove again, I will report back with results.

 

[Gopher69]

I installed new 'Thermocouple and Cover' and stove having same behavior.
FYI, Thermocouple is positioned extending about 1" over the burn-pot,
and the Thermocouple is touching the inside end of the ceramic cover.

Stove starts up, pellets drops, ignitor lights pellets in the pot, but then pellets STOP dropping.
Fire goes out and stove shuts down. Again, this Mt Vernon is a very 'early' OE model and has NO trouble-shooting lights at all.

Again, I have replaced Snap Disc #2 that controls the On/Off to the feed system. The red Reset button on this Snap Disc never tripped, so it appears to be working fine.
FYI, the Convection blower never came on. I removed and checked the Vacuum switch 'hose' and it was clear no obstructions !

Confused now on next steps to trouble-shoot, and very concerned that the issue may be related to the control box ?

Any feed-back will be greatly appreciated !

 

[Ssyko]

Take the 2 wires off the vacuum switch and hook them together (unplug stove first) then isolate the wires so they cannot touch the stove. Plug it in and try it

 

[Gopher69]

Take the 2 wires off the vacuum switch and hook them together (unplug stove first) then isolate the wires so they cannot touch the stove. Plug it in and try it

Sysko or anyone....
I disconnected the vacuum switch and bypassed with a jumper switch, started the stove, and stove tarted OK, dropped pellets, but then after less than 10 min. pellets stopped dropping and stove went into it's normal shutdown mode.

Just to backup a bit, I installed a new 'Thermocouple and Cover' previous to all of this. Snap Disc# 2 did not trip, and everything else looks good?w b

It's now been over 2 weeks since since the stove was running, and being so frustrated trying to self-diagnose I finally called my local Quadrafire dealer to send a service tech out to the house.
Service tech checked stove, and said it was very clean, checked all snap discs, checked pressure switch,
checked 'new' Thermocouple and cover, all good ! After about 30 min trouble-shooting he said that he was 100% positive the issue was related to the Control Board. He said I would be better to order the Control Board myself, because if he had to do would cost twice as much ! On that advice I ordered the new Control Board, and installed per instructions. The Control Board did not fix the issue, and the pellets stop dropping after initial start-up cycle ! The next day the bill came from the Dealer.

Now I have a $100+ Service call bill, a brand new Control Board, and still have a stove that doesn't run as it should. Will be making a call today to the Dealer about the service call which I have no intentions of paying, since they told me that the issues was 100% related to the Control Board, which isn't the problem.

I'm totally at a loss at this point and reaching out to all for any suggestions.

THANKS

 

[Ssyko]

Can you post a picture of the TC connectins? We have had a few this year that the wires needed to be reversed.

 

[jzm2cc]

My stove is an older model Mt Vernon, and 'does not' have any lights, other than a 'red' light that indicates that power is on, or when thermostat is calling for heat, and signal sent to drop pellets.

I understand that 'newer' models actual have a control panel with various colored lights that indicate certain functions, but my stove does not have this feature.

I recall seeing two small LED's on the older 3 speed boxes along the sides, maybe the 4 speed boxes are different. One red the other green, whereas the newer transparent boxes have one LED in the center that is green, red or yellow depending on condition.

 

[jzm2cc]

I'd also try measuring the thermocouple millivolts at the thermocouple terminals when stove has run strong for 10 minutes before it starts shutting down. Would expect to see at least 15 mV.

 

[stovelark]

I wonder too if auger motor itself is warming up and then thermally shutting down. Where is Kap? Need his input.

 

[Gopher69]

To SSYKO....

Yes, it appears I was sent one of the bad Thermocouple, where the wires needed to be reversed !
Apparently, this was a mistake made at the manufacturer, and few knew until the part hit the market.

I did determine however, after testing my original Thermocouple for milli-volts that it was fine.
I wish I had known how to test that in the beginning, would have saved a lot of time.
I will be sending back the new Thermocouple back to parts supplier for a refund.

Long story, the main underlying issue was the Control board, it was toast !
I have since replaced this, and happy to report that the stove is up and running again as normal.

Thanks for everyone's great feedback !

 

[Ssyko]

Great! Glad it’s working for ya

 

[Gopher69]

Well here we go again....

Stove was running five after installing new circuit Board, and here is is a month later and have same/simiair problem ???? Pellets are not dropping iNto fire pot ?

Pellets are not dropping into fire-pot on initial start-up, nothing, Nada, not a single pellet !
At start-up, only the exhaust blower runs !
I have pressed the Reset button continuously, but no pellets drop ?

I have tested all 3 Snap discs for Continuity, and all good for each. I have even disconnected all there Snap Discs, individually, with a jumper wire, all good. Stove is CLEAN, all areas. Pressure switch checked and good, even disconnected that and tested with a jumper wire, no change. Thermocuplar good, tested for Millivolts, but that would only be affected AFTER the stove has been running for a while.

Only thing left I'm thinking that the new circuit board may be defective ?

Thoughts ?

 

[Don2222]

ex

Well here we go again....

Stove was running five after installing new circuit Board, and here is is a month later and have same/simiair problem ???? Pellets are not dropping iNto fire pot ?

Pellets are not dropping into fire-pot on initial start-up, nothing, Nada, not a single pellet !
At start-up, only the exhaust blower runs !
I have pressed the Reset button continuously, but no pellets drop ?

I have tested all 3 Snap discs for Continuity, and all good for each. I have even disconnected all there Snap Discs, individually, with a jumper wire, all good. Stove is CLEAN, all areas. Pressure switch checked and good, even disconnected that and tested with a jumper wire, no change. Thermocuplar good, tested for Millivolts, but that would only be affected AFTER the stove has been running for a while.

Only thing left I'm thinking that the new circuit board may be defective ?

Thoughts ?

Bad auger motor, you can put an AC cord on the white and black auger motor wires.
I have a connector but you can splice one those blue quick connect clips from Home Depot just crimp them on.

 

[Gopher69]

ex

Bad auger motor, you can put an AC cord on the white and black auger motor wires.
I have a connector but you can splice one those blue quick connect clips from Home Depot just crimp them on.

I removed the Auger/Motor and bench tested as describedove ab, and it's turning perfectly as it should.
Stove is still not dropping pellets.

Ignitor is working fine, because I tested again by placing a handful of pellets in the fireboat, and started up the stove,
Exhaust blower came on, then a couple minutes later, I saw the pellets ignite and had good flame and burned.
However, no pellets were dropping, I just let the pellets in the burn pot burn out and shut the stove off.

Next suggestion ?

 

[Don2222]

Next suggestion
Take out the wire diagram and test all the safety switches with a multi-meter.

 

[Ssyko]

PM answered. 1 other thing, when you had the auger motor out, while it was turning was it turning the correct way? And did you try and apply pressure to the output shaft and see if it would or could be stopped easy?