Trying to fix-patch a C-Cast baffle

[bushman]

I picked up a Hearthstone Bennington that the C-Cast baffle has broken in half and after looking at prices for a new piece, I aim to fix what I got.

The model Bennington I have was 1682 serial number and that low the replacement piece price online was over $200.00.

My plan is to take a 16ga. steel plate and either place
It on top or bottom and use fender washers and bolt through the C-cast and also use some stove cement to seal up the crack. What I do have concern with is the metal may not be up to the job, may warp but,I don't know.

How's this fix sound?

 

[bholler]

I am pretty sure that sheet metal will warp and make it worse. We use stainless rivet mandrels to hold cracked baffles together. With some furnace cement to fill any small gaps. It is a temporary fix but it works for a while. I would order a replacement if I where you though.

 

[Attaboy]

HUM ! Not sure I would do that unless I could encase it in steel all around and then I am not sure that is a good solution either, I think its trouble eventually coming at you, best replace it as it will be a lot safer.

 

[mark cline]

Keep in mind that the 16ga steel will expand faster than the cast , so I would drill larger diameter holes and bolt it so it can move . I would think a fender washer on each side would allow for some expansion , just don't bolt it down super tight , just snug.

 

[brenndatomu]

C-cast is not metal...its a kind of ceramic insulation board.
I would just replace it with commonly available ceramic insulation board instead of "C-cast"...its been done many times here...I have some in my furnace now...it works fine...its just a bit softer than the C-cast...much less $ though too. Still not cheap, but you get enough to make several too. Most of the C-cast I've seen was about an inch thick...sound about right? You can buy the ceramic board in several different thicknesses.
Just search "ceramic insulation" or "ceramic fiber board" on the 'bay, or the 'zon...there's plenty that comes up. Just make sure you get "board" and not blanket.

 

[bushman]

I have a Isle Royale stove that has c-cast that is washered to a cast iron plate in the baffle area. 1/4" stainless plate is starting to sound better and no breaking, ever.

I found a guy that has ceramic board 18-25lbs density, 12" x 24" x 1" for $25.00 down in Burton,MI.

Seems like Hearthstone parts are some of the most expensive I have ran across or I would just buy OEM. $200 for a baffle board is just way to rich for my blood.

 

[bushman]

The guys on EBay, I found him on Craigslist too.

 

[bushman]

Well, I'm going to just buy some of his board and give it a go, kinda hard to try to out do that kind of a deal.

 

[bholler]

1/4" stainless plate is starting to sound better and no breaking, ever.

No but they can warp pretty bad I have seen steel plates warp bad enough to wipe out a set of tubes.

Well, I'm going to just buy some of his board and give it a go, kinda hard to try to out do that kind of a deal.

Sounds like it is worth a try

 

[bushman]

Bholler, About 10 years ago I had a Hearthstone Mansfield, it had a 1/4" steel baffle plate and was completely burnt through. Guy I bought it from overfired it to the point where the cast iron inside frame was warped also. Moran Iron Works over in Onaway,MI cut a new baffle and they said the original piece was just steel, not stainless.

Later I will snap a couple of pictures of the baffle area inside of the Bennington, seems like a stainless baffle would be brilliant for this repair, steel plates were used in several Hearthstone stoves. Technically the Bennington was designed with C-Cast baffle but, I bet it had more to do with passing EPA tests than it had to do with stainless steel plate not being suitable.

Drolet stoves used to have a welded in stainless baffle with air tubes, they went to C-Cast to get just a little better test results that they had to get.

 

[bushman]

My hobby is fiddling around with different stoves, this Bennington may be a keeper so while I'm too cheap to get the replacement piece, I don't want to mess this one up, it's beautiful. Do you think the stainless 1/4" plate would buckle or warp? If it had room to expand, it seems like it would be bulletproof.

 

[armanidog]

Nice stove.
Were the gouges on the ceramic board caused by hitting it with logs? If a piece of steel would work it may protect the board from getting gouged again.
And ceramic boards from various manufacturers are usually high priced-they may use a special density board. Englander Stoves (30-NC) use two half inch boards about 8"x16" and they are $60 each ($120 for both).

 

[Attaboy]

C-Cast is a man made mouldable formable silica and refractory based composite product normally used for extremely hot applications, C-Cast is suppose to be superior to steel in extremely hot environments/applications as it safely absorbs much higher heat levels, C-Cast does not expand, deform and warp where steel would.

EPA wood stoves use 5/16'' or 3/8'' tops instead of the previously used 1/4'' thick tops because of the extreme stove top temperatures in EPA stoves.

However compared to steel C-Cast can be more easily damaged as is demonstrated by the log gouges and damage in your photos.

 

[bushman]

I bought the stove used and baffle was broke upon inspection. It appears that the board may have been banged into by a brush since its broke right in the middle. Looks like the secondary tubes are wearing into the board as well. This is an early production Bennington and the later models have an edge protector for the front edge of the baffle made of stainless steel. The edge protector on a Shelburn I have holds the c cast baffle up off the tubes and I guess protects the front edge, as well.

 

[bushman]

He's some more pictures

 

[begreen]

I'd be tempted to cut a sheet of stainless to sit under the broken pieces and then thru-bolt it in 4 places. A front lip could be bent up on the stainless plate to protect the leading edge of the c-cast baffle. That would also stiffen the metal.

 

[bholler]

Do you think the stainless 1/4" plate would buckle or warp? If it had room to expand, it seems like it would be bulletproof.

That would depend allot on the alloy and I dont know enough about metallurgy to give you advice on that. I do know that stainless baffles can and do warp at times.

 

[bushman]

I was looking at it again and considering the baffle box in Pacific Energy as well as side rails are stainless with ceramic blanket, it should work in this stove too. Now to check the type of stainless used in Pacific Energy and get my plan going from there.

The stainless tubes will support the piece of stainless plate and using a ceramic blanket should provide the insulation. Years ago I had a Super 27 that you had to lay a blanket on top of the baffle box, the Alderlea T5 has blanket on the sides with a baffle box that has blanket inside box.

My goal is to come up with something more durable that costs less and burns as well as the c cast baffle. Not saying that I'm an engineer but, because I own and have owned lots of different stoves I do get to look at what engineers have come up with. Theres no warranty concerns or fear of breaking it so I may try this out.

 

[Attaboy]

My god there is an awful lot of creosote baked on to parts of that stove.


From the photos I am presuming that the C-Cast baffle normally sits flat over the secondary burn air supply tube, do you have sufficient room below the exhaust collar to add a custom built low profile shallow pan that you would sit the 2 C-Cast pieces into, but I would weld a couple of pieces of flat bar length wise over them to hold them in place instead of drilling holes through them and using bolts that probably would distort.


All metals used would need to be the same material and thickness to allow for even heat expansion all around.


It might be preferable to have all the pan bent side corners not be welded simply to prevent distortion every which way.

 

[bushman]

Yeah, theres a lot of crusty creations in there, that's part of how I ended up with this stove. The previous owners bought a Blaze King Princess and damm near gave this away. Never heard what their complaint was but, the squirrel cages on the blower were full of dust & dander. Beings that this is a convective stove maybe it was not pumping out enough heat and the air control lever was also stuck 1/2 way to fast burn.

The baffle does sit on the tubes. I gave up on the bolts & washers idea, now I throughly invested in this plan, flat stainless steel plate with a 1/2 ceramic blanket on top to completely replace the c cast baffle.

 

[Attaboy]

It is worth a try and less expensive as well, however if you have room for 1'' of ceramic insulation it would be preferable. A metal/steel products distributor's customer service department should be able to advise you on the type/grade of stainless to be used and suggest a thickness as well for this application. A single sheet of stainless would probably expand freely every which way. However because of the extreme heat in order to prevent oxidisation deterioration between the stainless plate and standard steel bolts it would be preferable to use stainless bolts and washers as well.

 

[bushman]

Attaboy, I am currently running an Alderlea T5 but, no blower for it. I'm going to run the Bennington with a blower for a while to see how it does then might sell it and buy a blower for the T5. My 1st PE stove was a 1999 Super 27, it had regular steel plates inside till they warped and crumbled. PE sent me the stainless replacements and that stove is still running at my old house.

 

[Attaboy]

My 1999 Spectrum Classic still has the original PE old style standard steel baffle with the ceramic blanket on top of it instead of integrated into it as the current models have. After 17 years of use I replaced the ceramic blanket and refractory bricks in November 2016. The certified chimney sweep was here last week, every year he takes the baffle and blankets out, dismantles the side rails, removes all the refractory bricks, cleans the stove out including air inlets and outlets and every nook and cranny he can find, checks for weld cracks also etc. etc., for the first time this year we could see rust damage on the standard steel side rails and a wee bit of deformation in them as well but they are still very usable. I will order new stainless side rails this summer and the sweep will install them when he does his service call in January 2018. The baffle itself which I believe is standard steel as well is still in very good condition.

In 18 years of use so far all that has been changed is the large ceramic blanket which is inexpensive (the side ones are still like new) and all the refractory bricks. Next year will add new stainless rails. All else is original.

Pacific Energy make one hell of a great stove.

 

[bushman]

I agree fully. Worst mistake I made in stoves was not taking that Super 27 when I moved. Now for me it's about trying different ones to make sure I'm not missing out on something. With that said, the Alderlea is going to get a break soon as either this Bennington or my Avalon Olympic is ready to go but, it's going to get put up right til I get this out of my system and settle on one.

 

[bushman]

Here's what I came up with, $10.00 from Louie the Thief up in Cheboygan, Louie runs a Commercial stove business that deals in Wolf,Viking and other high end stainless steel stuff that gets hot. This is a 6" x 9.5" piece of heavy 321 stainless and the baffle just floats and is my fix. Plan to fire up the Bennington in next few days.