Unbelievable Ad I Saw
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7acres
Minister of Fire
thewoodlands
Minister of Fire
That's the way they word it but when you ask them if the price is for a cord of wood they'll tell you no, a face cord.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
KJamesJR
Feeling the Heat
Out here in Oregon firewood can only be advertised/sold in cords or fractions thereof. Makes it a lot more clear than this "face cord" nonsense....
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
I don't and never will get this face cord crapola.
A cord is 4X4X8 FEET or 128cuft.
A cord is 4X4X8 FEET or 128cuft.
Sawset
Minister of Fire
It offers a way to lie cheat and steal yet stay under the radar. I've bought wood only once. After dumping the load of splits, I asked the guy, so how much do you think is here. Wrong question. After chasing around the tree 25 times I said oh quit it, this isn't the first time the questions been asked - crickets - then about 4ft x 21-24ft stacked. It was 23ft. So he did ok. He knew how to fill his dump truck.
Horse trading, in its literal sense, refers to the buying and selling of horses, also called "horse dealing.” Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the sale of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty, leading to use of the term horse trading (or horsetrading) to refer to complex bargaining or other transactions, such as political vote trading. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for underhanded business practices.
Horse trading, in its literal sense, refers to the buying and selling of horses, also called "horse dealing.” Due to the difficulties in evaluating the merits of a horse offered for sale, the sale of horses offered great opportunities for dishonesty, leading to use of the term horse trading (or horsetrading) to refer to complex bargaining or other transactions, such as political vote trading. It was expected that horse sellers would capitalize on these opportunities and so those who dealt in horses gained a reputation for underhanded business practices.
1 cord = 128 cubic feet I don’t care how it’s stacked. I always considered a face cord 1/3 of a cord. Here’s some info from https://forestry.usu.edu/forest-products/wood-heating I find the face cord description interesting.
Firewood Volume
Though firewood dry weight is important for determining heat content, firewood is normally bought and sold by volume. The most common unit of firewood volume is the cord, also known as a standard or full cord. A cord is an evenly-stacked pile containing 128 cubic feet of wood and air space. Though a cord can be piled in any shape, a standard cord is generally thought of as a stack of wood 4 feet tall, 8 feet long, and 4 feet deep (Figure 1). To figure the number of cords in another size or shape pile, determine the pile's cubic foot volume and divide by 128. A randomly-piled stack of wood will generally contain more air and less wood than one neatly piled.
Some dealers sell wood by the face cord or short cord (Figure 2). A face cord is a stack of wood 4 feet high, 8 feet long, and as deep as the pieces are long. Pieces are commonly 12 to 18 inches long, so a face cord may contain 32 to 48 cubic feet of wood and air.
Another common firewood measure is the pickup load (Figure 3). This is a very imprecise but common measure. A full-size pickup with a standard bed can hold about 1/2 of a full cord or 64 cubic feet when loaded even with the top of the bed. Small pickups hold much less. Random loading will decrease this amount further.
A randomly-piled stack or pickup load of wood will contain more air and less wood than one neatly stacked. Crooked, small diameter, and knotty or branchy pieces also reduce the amount of wood in a pile.
Figure 1. Standard Cord
Total Volume = 128 cubic feet
Figure 2. Face Cord
Total Volume = 32 to 48 cubic feet (depending on piece length)
Figure 3. Pickup Load
Approximate Total Volume = 64 cu. ft.
Buying Firewood
Species, volume, dryness, and need for splitting should be considered when buying firewood. The information here and in other publications should give you the basic information you will need to be an informed buyer. However, knowing your dealer is the best way to ensure that you are getting what you are paying for.
Firewood Volume
Though firewood dry weight is important for determining heat content, firewood is normally bought and sold by volume. The most common unit of firewood volume is the cord, also known as a standard or full cord. A cord is an evenly-stacked pile containing 128 cubic feet of wood and air space. Though a cord can be piled in any shape, a standard cord is generally thought of as a stack of wood 4 feet tall, 8 feet long, and 4 feet deep (Figure 1). To figure the number of cords in another size or shape pile, determine the pile's cubic foot volume and divide by 128. A randomly-piled stack of wood will generally contain more air and less wood than one neatly piled.
Some dealers sell wood by the face cord or short cord (Figure 2). A face cord is a stack of wood 4 feet high, 8 feet long, and as deep as the pieces are long. Pieces are commonly 12 to 18 inches long, so a face cord may contain 32 to 48 cubic feet of wood and air.
Another common firewood measure is the pickup load (Figure 3). This is a very imprecise but common measure. A full-size pickup with a standard bed can hold about 1/2 of a full cord or 64 cubic feet when loaded even with the top of the bed. Small pickups hold much less. Random loading will decrease this amount further.
A randomly-piled stack or pickup load of wood will contain more air and less wood than one neatly stacked. Crooked, small diameter, and knotty or branchy pieces also reduce the amount of wood in a pile.
Figure 1. Standard Cord
Total Volume = 128 cubic feet
Figure 2. Face Cord
Total Volume = 32 to 48 cubic feet (depending on piece length)
Figure 3. Pickup Load
Approximate Total Volume = 64 cu. ft.
Buying Firewood
Species, volume, dryness, and need for splitting should be considered when buying firewood. The information here and in other publications should give you the basic information you will need to be an informed buyer. However, knowing your dealer is the best way to ensure that you are getting what you are paying for.
bfitz3
Feeling the Heat
Since I cut my own wood, I’ve started using units of area on the face of the stack instead of cords. I know that my garage holds 270 ft of ‘face’ wood that is 20” long. This comes out right around 3.5 true cords, which is quite conveniently what I burn per year. I’ve also developed my own unit of measurement: a Brian-Cord; 80 sq ft cut to 20 inches. This is what happens when I idly occupy my mind during a day of splitting.
Sq ft measurement is really convenient for me when figuring out what I need to CSS each year. Measure the area of the faces of my stacks til I hit the magic number then go swimming.
As for buying wood... I bought a seasoned cord once for $70 delivered. Seasoned? Hahaha! I knew better than to expect dry wood, so no biggie there. As for the cord, I expected a face cord (32 sq ft) and got about 25 ft^2. It was for a fireplace/ambiance and it burned okayish, so I sucked it up and dealt with it but vowed never to call them again.
Sq ft measurement is really convenient for me when figuring out what I need to CSS each year. Measure the area of the faces of my stacks til I hit the magic number then go swimming.
As for buying wood... I bought a seasoned cord once for $70 delivered. Seasoned? Hahaha! I knew better than to expect dry wood, so no biggie there. As for the cord, I expected a face cord (32 sq ft) and got about 25 ft^2. It was for a fireplace/ambiance and it burned okayish, so I sucked it up and dealt with it but vowed never to call them again.
Sawset
Minister of Fire
And there lies the rub. Some materials on the market come with material certs - someone has certified authenticity. Until then:
The pulp mill I worked for and every other one I knew paid based on weight for pulp wood. We got the low grade wood that was crooked so its did not pack well in a pulp truck so buying by volume didnt work. The mill used to have an employee that worked the scales and kept an eye out for people playing games. On occasion truckers would stop by a brook and soak the load down with water before the load was scaled. They would be talked to and if it continued they would lose their scale card and would not be allowed to sell wood. The buyers had to be careful as production was king and during mud season or times of high pulp prices wood was hard to get and then the buyers would be begging for wood. As the mill was struggling in its final years they laid off the scale operators and no one kept track of the loggers and they got away games even more.
For raw firewood I don't see a good way of standardizing wood sales, the face cord is definitely shady but selling by weight is moisture content variable. I guess if you want standardized firewood,switch to pellets.
For raw firewood I don't see a good way of standardizing wood sales, the face cord is definitely shady but selling by weight is moisture content variable. I guess if you want standardized firewood,switch to pellets.
Sawset
Minister of Fire
When we drop off feed grains like corn and beans at the elevator, they do an on the spot check for moisture, weight, damage, etc. Low moisture is the farmers problem. High moisture means a dock in price and drying fees that come out of the current market price. Weight, then calculated to bushels is what they're after. If firewood was shipped and traded, then I bet things would be different. I thought the EU had something, but all I see are proposals and guidlines there too.
Woody5506
Minister of Fire
Understand that anyone in NY who says "cord" actually most likely means face cord. WHY?...I do not know. I know it can be regional but from what I gather from this board and another board, NY seems to be the biggest culprit for the face cord/cord confusion and nonsense. Any dealer I look up on our local Craigslist sells by face cord, and sometimes will just call it a cord.
Super handy too you can use anywhere you have a phone/internet. I like how I can enter some dimensions in feet and others in inches.
https://www.maine.gov/ag/firewood.html
https://www.maine.gov/ag/firewood.html
johneh
Minister of Fire
Here in Canada's Nation Capital Ottawa if they say cord they mean 1/3 of a cord (face cord)
When I sold wood years ago I sold it by the cord (128 cu. ft.) and was told many times that my
wood was to expensive until they found out they would get 3 times the wood . I still only
sell in 4 x 4 x 8 lots and my wood is dried at least 2 years . My customers are all repeat
and order there wood in the spring because I only sell a limited amount now . At 70 I
have really slowed down . Dam I hate getting old
When I sold wood years ago I sold it by the cord (128 cu. ft.) and was told many times that my
wood was to expensive until they found out they would get 3 times the wood . I still only
sell in 4 x 4 x 8 lots and my wood is dried at least 2 years . My customers are all repeat
and order there wood in the spring because I only sell a limited amount now . At 70 I
have really slowed down . Dam I hate getting old
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Yup and if your in the country side a million miles away from anything and ask for directions everything is only 5 mins up the road.
And that is the problem. Only a 4x4x8 foot stack of wood is, by definition, "a cord". No other size, stacking or layout, even if it totals 128 cubic feet is "a cord" of wood. It's like calling a pile of logs "a log cabin". You would say 'no way', and I say 'sure there are enough logs for all the floors, walls, roof beams, etc. But suddenly, the way they are stacked makes a huge difference! Same with a cord - its all in the stacking!
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Agreed. Never heard of such a thing as a face cord until I landed here several years back. As you said, a cord up here has always been the standard 4 x 4 x 8 feet stack OR 128 cubic feet of wood stacked in some other configuration.
Even now I tend to stack my outside "seasoning" wood in 4 x 4 x 8 stacks (well it's more like 3 1/2 x 5 x 8 stacks when you figure in the actual length of the wood -- I stack it higher though so I know it's a cord +.)
