Uncovered a fireplace that needs repair - looking for some advice

[Rhaegar1336]

My wife and I recently purchased a Michigan home built in 1927. We were removing plaster from the chimney wall in a second floor bedroom for an exposed brick look and we unexpectedly uncovered a fireplace. It definitely needs some repairs to be functional/safe and I was hoping for some advice on our options.

See the photos here (forgive the pink paint job it is on the short list of projects to complete). Let me know if there are any other angles or close ups that could help.

The fireplace is in a second story bedroom of our single family home built in 1927 in Michigan. The chimney has 3 flu's: one for an operational fireplace on the first floor, one for the furnace, and this one. This flu is 8x8 with a clay liner that is in good shape. It is currently missing a damper, but we plan on getting a top mount one quickly so we aren't venting our AC.

This is a pretty novel experience for us and for the most part we just want to know what our options are. We've tried contacting some local professionals, but haven't been making much headway. To boil it down I suppose our question are:

• Based on what's remaining and the time period, can we surmise what the original look may have been?
  
  
• What needs to be completed for the fireplace to be operational? Is it even feasible with current safety standards?
  
  
• If it is feasible to make it operational, is this professional only territory?
  
  
• If it is not feasible to make it operational, any suggestions on what we could do with it for a clean look?

We really appreciate any thoughts, thanks!

 

[webby3650]

Pretty cool find! I guess the first thing to do is have the flue inspected. Since it’s a small flue, relining it wouldn’t terribly expensive if it becomes necessary. Then have a mason or a qualified chimney sweep rebuild the firebox.
You also need to cut back the wood flooring to expose the hearth extension.

 

[Rhaegar1336]

Thanks! I've been wavering between excited and overwhelmed. We did have the flue inspected at the same time we had our main floor fireplace swept/inspected and it is luckily in good shape. Unfortunately, fireplace repair was outside of their expertise so we still aren't too sure what all is involved. I have an appointment with another company to come out in a few weeks, but before then I'm hoping to get a wider idea of possible routes to take with it.

 

[Alpine1]

Seeing the pictures, I’m envisioning a small Morsø stove (3142 maybe?) in that fireplace. My compliments for your desire to keep it working (safely). Keep us posted!

 

[Rhaegar1336]

Wow, I really like that idea! I was sort of one-track thinking that restoring it meant making it a standard wood burning fireplace again, but now that you prompted me to look into stoves I really think it's more practical for this (admittedly kind of small) room.

 

[edyit]

second floor bedroom

check with local code before investing too much $$, i don't think you're allowed to have a wood burning unit in a bedroom

 

[Rhaegar1336]

check with local code before investing too much $$, i don't think you're allowed to have a wood burning unit in a bedroom

Good point. Local code points me to the "International Fire Code." I haven't found anything specific to bedrooms in it yet, but I'm currently digging through it

 

[Pertzbro]

I don't believe you can have a solid fuel burner in bedroom. I also don't believe there is any grandfathering. I'd look into a gas insert. This of course requires a gas line.

You could also do electric or ethanol. I have an ethanol burner from my previous house that had no wood capabilities and it fulfilled my fire cravings and does put it some serious heat as three is no venting.

 

[webby3650]

I don't believe you can have a solid fuel burner in bedroom. I also don't believe there is any grandfathering. I'd look into a gas insert. This of course requires a gas line.

You could also do electric or ethanol. I have an ethanol burner from my previous house that had no wood capabilities and it fulfilled my fire cravings and does put it some serious heat as three is no venting.

A wood burning appliance is not allowed in a bedroom. Neither is a ventless appliance unless it is very low BTU, 8,000 I think. Personally I wouldn’t want anything vent free in my bedroom other than a candle.
I’m not 100% sure about the open Fireplace though. So many old homes have them, being permitted isn’t an issue, since it’s been there for nearly 100 years.

 

[bholler]

A wood burning appliance is not allowed in a bedroom. Neither is a ventless appliance unless it is very low BTU, 8,000 I think. Personally I wouldn’t want anything vent free in my bedroom other than a candle.
I’m not 100% sure about the open Fireplace though. So many old homes have them, being permitted isn’t an issue, since it’s been there for nearly 100 years.

You are right if it was in wotking order they could use it. But it isnt it needs rebuilt. At that point it needs to be brought up to code which doesnt allow it to be used.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

You are right if it was in wotking order they could use it. But it isnt it needs rebuilt. At that point it needs to be brought up to code which doesnt allow it to be used.

Educate me on this. Why is a fireplace allowed in a bedroom and a stove is not? Isn't a stove safer than an open fireplace?

 

[bholler]

Educate me on this. Why is a fireplace allowed in a bedroom and a stove is not? Isn't a stove safer than an open fireplace?

A fireplace in the bedroom is against code. But if it is there and useable no one can tell you you cant do it. But if it needs rebuilt no reputable contractor should do it. Because once it needs rebuilt it needs brought up to code. They would be opening themselves up to massive liability

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

A fireplace in the bedroom is against code. But if it is there and useable no one can tell you you cant do it. But if it needs rebuilt no reputable contractor should do it. Because once it needs rebuilt it needs brought up to code. They would be opening themselves up to massive liability

All clear, thanks.

 

[Rhaegar1336]

Really appreciate all the responses! I'm kind of disappointed to hear there likely isn't a functional solution. I've reached out to the local public safety office and I have a local company coming out next week to shore up exactly what I can and can't do here.

 

[webby3650]

You are right if it was in wotking order they could use it. But it isnt it needs rebuilt. At that point it needs to be brought up to code which doesnt allow it to be used.

It’s not something we really see in this part of the country. Can’t say I’ve ever ran into this before.

 

[bholler]

It’s not something we really see in this part of the country. Can’t say I’ve ever ran into this before.

We see it all the time. We are usually called in when the house changes hands to give estimates for repairs to get it running again. But there are a few that are being used that we clean.

 

[Simonkenton]

What a find. That is a very well designed fireplace because it is built on the Rumford style. This features sides that angle, and a back wall that angles towards the room.

This is the best-heating fireplace design and I am surprised to see one from 1927 as the Rumford had just about gone extinct by that time. I would like to get in my time machine and have a talk with the mason and see how he learned about fireplace construction. My fireplace pictured at left is a modified Rumford.

As to fixing it up to burn I don't know it looks like more trouble than it would be worth.

 

[bholler]

What a find. That is a very well designed fireplace because it is built on the Rumford style. This features sides that angle, and a back wall that angles towards the room.

This is the best-heating fireplace design and I am surprised to see one from 1927 as the Rumford had just about gone extinct by that time. I would like to get in my time machine and have a talk with the mason and see how he learned about fireplace construction. My fireplace pictured at left is a modified Rumford.

As to fixing it up to burn I don't know it looks like more trouble than it would be worth.

We see rumford style fireboxes pretty often here built up untill the 70s. And then started again in the 90s. In between them we see mostly heatforms which are loosly based on a rumford style box. The one the op found is certainly a rumford box but the sides are not angled in enough. There have been a few that have improved on rumfords designs as well chris prior being the most successful. But even his fireplaces are a joke compared to even pre epa stoves when it comes to heating efficiency.

 

[Rhaegar1336]

We see rumford style fireboxes pretty often here built up untill the 70s. And then started again in the 90s. In between them we see mostly heatforms which are loosly based on a rumford style box. The one the op found is certainly a rumford box but the sides are not angled in enough. There have been a few that have improved on rumfords designs as well chris prior being the most successful. But even his fireplaces are a joke compared to even pre epa stoves when it comes to heating efficiency.

Is there anything else you might be able to tell about the design from what's left? I'm confused by the fact that the firebox is below the lintel. There are also metal clips embedded in the mortar and I'm not sure what they may have been securing.

 

[barnaclebob]

At the very least if you don't want to go gas you could make it look nice and put a bunch of candles in it.

 

[Rhaegar1336]

I heard back from the email I sent the public safety office, and it was the fire marshal himself who responded. I am fine to have an operational fireplace or stove in a bedroom as long as it meets Michigan building codes.

Considering a lot of the concerns I’ve heard here, I’m interested in what the local fireplace guys I have coming out next week will say.

 

[bholler]

I heard back from the email I sent the public safety office, and it was the fire marshal himself who responded. I am fine to have an operational fireplace or stove in a bedroom as long as it meets Michigan building codes.

Considering a lot of the concerns I’ve heard here, I’m interested in what the local fireplace guys I have coming out next week will say.

According to code the only way a solid fuel burning appliance is allowed in a sleeping room is if that room is not an enclosed space and the house is not of unusually tight constrution. I am not sure where the fire marshal got his info but he needs to brush up on his knowledge of the fire code.