Use old stove or buy new + other questions

[gcb2108]

I am making a 16' x 24' outbuilding. I have an old stove I'm thinking of using. To keep the chimney from passing in front of windows I was planning on keeping it as tight to the wall as possible (3.5"). I was going to use class A to T out of the stove and go straight up, but now I am having second thoughts. I could jog the chimney a few inches in the attic space and use double wall pipe from the stove to the ceiling in a more conventional arrangement.

With that background, these are my questions.

1.) The free stove I got says "Home Warmer" on the door. It vents out of the side. It's cast iron and in decent shape, but obviously decades old. I've read that an unlisted stove has 12" clearance with appropriate heat shielding between it and the wall, and I'd be looking at 14" or so. This still seems a bit dodgy to me. Would I be better off sucking it up and buying new? I know the emissions will be worse with an old stove, but will it throw more sparks or otherwise be an actual danger to use?

2.) Assuming I do use class A straight out of whatever stove I end up with, what's the best way to support and finish it as it passes from the finished space into the attic space? All the support transitions I'm familiar with are also designed to go from stovepipe to chimney.

3.) This space is going to be less than 500 sq. ft., though it has 10' ceilings. Are there any stoves that will burn well without turning it into a sauna?

 

[Nick Mystic]

We probably need more information to give you good advice. First, what will this outbuilding be used for and how much time do you anticipate spending out there? I ask because if you are going to be out there nearly every day for considerable periods of time it could make sense to spend more money on your stove project. If you'll only be there a couple of hours over the weekend, not so much. Second, what sort of construction and insulation are you planning on using? If the building is going to be tightly constructed and well insulated, then your stove needs will be minimal. If you aren't insulating it like you would a house, then you will obviously need more heat from the stove.

As far as safety, an old stove can be burned as safe as a new one (for the most part) assuming safe burning practices are followed. As to your questions regarding the stove pipe/chimney installation you need to follow the same guidelines that you would with a regular home installation. If you want more specific advice on types of pipe and chimney you probably need to be more specific with your construction details. What is the ceiling made of and the sort of roof you'll be working with for a start. Welcome to the forum and good luck with your project.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Will you be keeping the building at the same temp as outdoors? How fast do you want it to heat up?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Your options go all the way from a barrel stove to an nice EPA certified modern wood stove that is miserly on the wood. Keep in mind any kind of pre EPA old stove chews up a lot of wood and dont burn for long.

 

[gcb2108]

Thanks for the replies. I did some thinking today and discussed it with my wife (who will actually use it more than I do) and I'm going to do a standard instillation - double wall stove pipe from the stove to the ceiling, then transition to class A stainless. Obscuring a few inches of window isn't the end of the world. I will, of course, observe all appropriate clearances.

It is a stick framed building, and I am taking old 3" polyiso sheets and ripping them to fit in the gaps. I'll spray foam to tighten up around them as needed, but I'm really just trying to make it comfy when a fire's burning. I don't expect it to hold much heat overnight or anything, but it will be reasonably tight.

I'm guessing it will be used an average of 2-4 hours per day, 5 days a week, perhaps more a few years out.

I heat my home exclusively with wood, so I know the basics, like burning only dry wood and keeping the stove and chimney clean. But I've never heated a space so small with one, and most are sized for considerably more volume.

I also took a closer look at the stove, and though I know the previous owner used it to burn wood I wonder if it was actually designed for coal. Here's a bad picture of its face. You can't see it here, but it vents out of the right side in the upper corner.



I also pulled these heat shields out of it. They're pretty warped.


I have yet to take off the top - the screws are pretty rusted - but it hasn't been cleaned in quite a while, and I've already found the remains of several birds in it.

Thanks again for any thoughts about the viability of this thing.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You'll probably going to keep the fire going all the time then. I'd insulate the snot out of the place and run a cat stove.

 

[gcb2108]

Thanks again. I just read over what I've written and realized I didn't mention that it has a cedar roof. I've seen plenty or houses with cedar roofs and wood stoves, but I intuitively think an older stove is more likely to throw sparks. Is this so?

 

[begreen]

Thanks again. I just read over what I've written and realized I didn't mention that it has a cedar roof. I've seen plenty or houses with cedar roofs and wood stoves, but I intuitively think an older stove is more likely to throw sparks. Is this so?

You'll definitely want to meet or exceed the 10-3-2 rule for the chimney height and I would have a spark screen on the cap. Burn dry wood and don't use the stove for a garbage burner.

 

[Ashful]

Note that cat stoves are started in bypass mode, and can also throw considerable sparks during this phase, prior to closing the bypass damper.

 

[gcb2108]

Thanks! I will meet 10-3-2 rule, and the chimney is on the downwind edge. I only burn dry wood, and I've got plenty of it, so no scrap will be going through it. So is the consensus that it would be prudent to go with a new, clean burning stove?

I really appreciate all the friendly feedback.

 

[begreen]

If you are burning 24/7 during winter then yes, I'd get a modern stove. It will save a lot of fuel. This could be new or used depending on what is available. If used, be fussy and avoid abused or over complicated designs. If this is just for an occasional weekend burn, then a good older stove, preferably baffled, will work as long as it is run correctly and dry wood is burned.

I don't know anything about the old Home Warmer. Note that you will be burning at least a few hours more than you think. It will take a few hours for the stove heat to start to build up, especially in a large space. Also note that even with proper wall shielding the old stove can not be closer than 12" to the nearest combustible behind the shield.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Thanks! I will meet 10-3-2 rule, and the chimney is on the downwind edge. I only burn dry wood, and I've got plenty of it, so no scrap will be going through it. So is the consensus that it would be prudent to go with a new, clean burning stove?

I really appreciate all the friendly feedback.

If your looking for new you can get deals in the spring. A $899 Englander Nc-30 , possibly $600. Got both of mine that way. Got at least a hundred off a Summers heat SH50 i bought in the spring too. Also From dealer to dealer the prices are different. Paid about $500 less for my harman TL-300 From $2499 to $1999 just checking a few dealers. If your serious about wood heat, you will carry a lot more wood over time for an old stove ,so a good effecient stove makes a lot of sense.

 

[gcb2108]

I'm considering this stove: (broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/summers_heat/stove/summers-heat-tranquility-1200-sq.-ft.-wood-stove)

It's not catalytic, but it's supposedly clean burning, and the size looks appropriate for heating the space ~4 hours a day. My only concern is that on really cold mornings it might take forever to warm up the space.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Unless well insulated, it will take forever to heat the place up. If you're going to use it every day, don't let it cool down to ambient temperature. It'll be worth your while to keep the stove warm. Some cat stoves offer incredible burn times on low. Some of the BK guys are claiming 40 hours on a load.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I'm considering this stove: (broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/summers_heat/stove/summers-heat-tranquility-1200-sq.-ft.-wood-stove)

It's not catalytic, but it's supposedly clean burning, and the size looks appropriate for heating the space ~4 hours a day. My only concern is that on really cold mornings it might take forever to warm up the space.

I paid just a few $ more than that for my 2400SF SHSWS02-50 Around 7something. If you are heating from cold each time you probably need a stove for twice the SF Rating. With the 2400SF i can fire it up and have an 800SF space warm up fairly quickly then set it all the way on low to maintain it. You will regret buying a small stove and frequently refilling trying to heat a shop up from cold. By the time it gets warm you will be ready to leave.

 

[begreen]

I'm considering this stove: (broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/summers_heat/stove/summers-heat-tranquility-1200-sq.-ft.-wood-stove)

It's not catalytic, but it's supposedly clean burning, and the size looks appropriate for heating the space ~4 hours a day. My only concern is that on really cold mornings it might take forever to warm up the space.

There is a nice review about using the 17VL stove for a garage shop heater for 240 sq ft. It definitely will take awhile to get the place warmed up.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-model-17-vl-stove-installation-and-review.114897

Personally I'd go up a size to something in the 1.8 - 2.0 cu ft range. There are several affordable stoves to choose from including those made by Heatilator, Englander, Drolet, & True North.

 

[gcb2108]

There is a nice review about using the 17VL stove for a garage shop heater for 240 sq ft. It definitely will take awhile to get the place warmed up.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-model-17-vl-stove-installation-and-review.114897

Personally I'd go up a size to something in the 1.8 - 2.0 cu ft range. There are several affordable stoves to choose from including those made by Heatilator, Englander, Drolet, & True North.

Thanks for the thoughts and link. The space is 384 ft. and reasonably insulated. Based on that thread it would probably take an hour to get up to temp, maybe longer on cold days. How much time is a 2 cubic foot firebox going to save me? I heat my home with a masonry heater, which is obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have a 2.0 Cu ft Country hearth 2000 that i heat a 600 s ft apt with intermittently with the stove in a 400Sf room. The stove throws a lot of heat but cant get much wood in it and always seem to be loading 2 or 3 pieces at a time often. I would not go any smaller than 2.0 for sure. The old saying is you can make a small fire in a big stove ,but you cant make a big fire in a small stove.

P.S. I picked up that Country Hearth 2000 at TSC farm supply for $499.00

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the thoughts and link. The space is 384 ft. and reasonably insulated. Based on that thread it would probably take an hour to get up to temp, maybe longer on cold days. How much time is a 2 cubic foot firebox going to save me? I heat my home with a masonry heater, which is obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum.

It all depends on what is the desired temp, how much higher that temp is than the room temp starting point and how cold it is outside. If it's 40F outside and the goal is to have a 50-55F working temp then the 17VL will suffice. If it's 0ºF outside and the shop is starting on a Monday morning at 32F, then it may take many hours to reach 55F room temp. You're not just heating up the air but all the mass of the cabinets, tools, walls, ceiling and especially the floor if it is an uninsulated concrete slab. If you insulate the floor it will make a large difference. Or, use a larger stove that is putting out more BTUs/hr. for a faster warmup. On milder days just build smaller fire and let it go out, or just add a log or two at a time.

 

[gcb2108]

It all depends on what is the desired temp, how much higher that temp is than the room temp starting point and how cold it is outside. If it's 40F outside and the goal is to have a 50-55F working temp then the 17VL will suffice. If it's 0ºF outside and the shop is starting on a Monday morning at 32F, then it may take many hours to reach 55F room temp. You're not just heating up the air but all the mass of the cabinets, tools, walls, ceiling and especially the floor if it is an uninsulated concrete slab. If you insulate the floor it will make a large difference. Or, use a larger stove that is putting out more BTUs/hr. for a faster warmup. On milder days just build smaller fire and let it go out, or just add a log or two at a time.

The building's on piers, so the floor is insulated. On the other hand, we do have our share of sub zero mornings. You guys are swaying me towards something a bit larger than the 17VL. I just really like the look and size of it.

 

[begreen]

You might want to take a look at the Drolet Deco. It is the same form factor as the 17VL but with a 1.6 cu ft firebox. This is a fairly new stove model, so I can't comment on its real world use yet, but Drolet makes a decent value stove.
(broken link removed to https://www.drolet.ca/en/products/stoves/deco-wood-stove-with-european-style/)
https://www.ruralking.com/deco.html

 

[jwfirebird]

have something like this, alot easier to just set the thermostat, and you loose no space because it hangs from the ceiling. you dont have to mess with cleaning it all the time, etc. wouldnt cost that much to run with good insulation either

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578579_200578579

 

[Ashful]

have something like this, alot easier to just set the thermostat, and you loose no space because it hangs from the ceiling. you dont have to mess with cleaning it all the time, etc. wouldnt cost that much to run with good insulation either

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578579_200578579

Got you beat, there. Mitsubishi minisplit. Keeps me warm all winter, and cool all summer. One outdoor unit, two indoor units, one on each floor.

Zero floor space, zero fire concern with a dusty shop.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Upstate N.Y. is a big place. While not "Upstate", Long Island is zone 8, the Adirondacks can be zone 3. A miniskirt (lol, not gonna correct that autocorrect!) may have issues keeping temp in the winter.

 

[gcb2108]

Yeah, I'm comfortably zone 4. Thanks for the alternatives, but I have tons of trees and I like heating with wood.