Venting through foundation wall/venting manufaucture recommendations

[broncbob]

I aquired a Breckell P23 second hand at a very reasonable price of $200. The prior owner miss diagnosed a open over temperature switch as a bad control board and wrote it off. I had it burning in the driveway in about 30 minutes of checking things over (this included downloading the manual off line!)

I have a spot in the living room in my basement picked out for it, and have started to build a riser for it to sit on. The finish for the riser will be grouted tile and larger than what is called for in the manual. It has a convenient outlet near by as well.

The downside of this area is I have to vent through the foundation. I have access to a Hilti core drill through work, as well as core bits from 2"-6". This should cover the venting (4") and the fresh air inlet, I hope!

My questions come from not doing this for a living, or all the time. What venting manufauctures make good piping? Are any of the kits worth getting? How does one get non standard lengths of insulated venting? I don't know the exact length of vertical run I will need to go between the clean out tee at the stove, and the 90* to the hole in the foundation. (I have about 8" of wiggle room roughly to keep the vent the required distance above grade and below the celing in the basement .) I'm not sure if this will bring up a odd ball length or not. Once through the foundation I plan to 90* up and run enough pipe to get the 90* to vent cap at least 8' above grade.

Next question is, can I trim the thimble that would go on the outside of the wall and silcone it to the stucco finish on the foundation? If the inner part of the thimble won't reach the foundation can I add to it with tin sealed with high temp RTV? Do I need to seal the inner thimble to the foundation?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions!

 

[Polar Bear]

Stove pipe works for thick foundation to join the thimbles and keeps the insulation off the double insulated pipe

They an adjustable pipe for the in between needs.

They make a thimble with the spot for the oak.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

First things first before you install that stove make absolutely certain that it has been fully cleaned.

Then sit down with the manual and read it through slowly from beginning to end several times.

Pay particular attention to the all things said about venting. You are already raising red flags for me. Venting should always be as short and free of bends as it can to satisfy termination requirements.

When you use a thimble you never modify it in any way.

I take it this is going to be a through concrete install and that there is stucco over the concrete. Will there be any combustibles within clearances of the hole the vent will go through on either side of the foundation?

 

[bags]

Another option. Have you thought about going up inside above top of concrete and then out thru the band board to not have to core the concrete? Most times you can make the standard lengths of vent pipe work. X 2 on yes you can extend the depth on wall thimbles with some added stove pipe to extend. Most thimbles you are pushing it to get thru much over a 6" thick wall. For example if you have a 2 x 6 framed wall it is 6 1/2" thick minimum after 1/2" drywall and 1/2" exterior sheeting. More like 7 plus inches you have to get thru. Typical foundation walls are 8" just for the crete.

I found most stuff at Amazon my 2nd go round. 1st stove I got spanked for dealer pricing on venting and wall thimble. Never Again! The best prices I found were on Amazon and other online sources. I just received them all within the last week and a half as some came from different sellers and shippers. Longest wait was about 4 days. Look all around online and as for a basic pipe install kit I am not sure that would be your best bet since your venting will not be a basic set up.

Figure out what you need, get a list, and start pricing around. I just Google pellet stove vent pipe for sale. Be sure to figure out your lengths, elbows, and horizontal and vertical runs. Depending on what you have will determine whether you need 3" or 4" pipe. Check your manual. Usually anything over 15 EVL needs to be 4". Search here on vent lengths. Elbows shorten runs quickly and what you are saying you will have 2 minimum if you go up and straight out. Best to keep venting as short as possible but make sure you meet required specs and what your manual says.

Another point is thimbles are for clearance to combustibles. Concrete doesn't burn so IF you are only going thru crete you do not need one. You could do a hole slightly larger than your pipes OD and seal it. This all changes IF there is say a framed wall inside you are going thru.

 

[bags]

Saw Smokey was here after I typed and posted. Work with him. Smokey, What do you do then if you have a 10" thick wall and the max the thimble will over lap and allow for is 7 1/2" to 8"?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Saw Smokey was here after I typed and posted. Work with him. Smokey, What do you do then if you have a 10" thick wall and the max the thimble will over lap and allow for is 7 1/2" to 8"?

Talk to the thimble makers and see what is available, bet they have the parts you need.

I don't do installs you aren't going to catch me drilling through house walls when I can have that liability on someone else's dime.

 

[broncbob]

I have looked at going through the rim joist or board, but there isn't enough clearance between the last floor joist and the rim joist, and I have a gas line in the way.

I know 90* bends are not ideal, but I don't have enough clearance from the ground to feel good about a direct vent with possible snow buildup around it.

I for sure need 4" pipe, as I exceed the max EVL of 3" according to the manual.

I do have a finished wall in the basement that I'm going through, I was under the impression as long as the thimble reached the concrete foundation, I would not need to run a thimble through the foundation. Am I wrong about this?

I have read the manual a few times, the numbers on the hearth pad and vent size have come from it, as well as clearance from the ground for venting.

 

[bags]

I see your situation. I don't see a problem with it if the thimble gets you clearly past the combustibles. Just to be safe and not get your rear in a sling you could ask around and like Smokey said maybe contact Dura Vent or another pellet vent manufacturer and describe the situation. If it was my house and I was doing that type of install I know what I'd do.

Smokey is very knowledgeable and well versed in the venting so take note on what he says. The way I see it is concrete is non-combustible and if the thimble sleeve inserts a ways into your foundation wall and also offers the clearance to combustibles inside and out then you should have it covered IMO. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me. Get some more opinions. I know some have stuffed the vent directly thru concrete foundations but all they were dealing with was crete.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You need a thimble all the way from that wall to the outside if the wall is against the foundation. The thimble serves more than one purpose. The first and most important is that it mechanically enforces the clearances to combustibles and the second is that it and the requirement that no joint in the vent where it passes through a thimble prevents and hot exhaust gases from lighting up anything via seepage, there is a third function and it to is a safety and that is they get sealed on the outside around the where the vent passes through the thimble and around the thimble where it is against the wall this third function works in a smelly manner to notify the owner if there is a leak inside the thimble and to protect from smoke and combustion byproducts being drawn back into the house from the vent system.

Your installation desires are always dead last when it comes to venting.

There are currently a couple of threads on the forum dealing with cases of burn back (aka hopper fires).

These normally require several conditions to be in place and leading the list is an improper installation.

You are going to be putting that stove in a basement which in and of itself is a red flag for me. You need to pay close attention to any negative pressure conditions as that is the floor that is apt to have the most severe cases.

Then we have your location which at 4800' in altitude or there about.

Sorry bags but if the wall is against the foundation that thimble must pass through both.

 

[broncbob]

Thanks for your help Smokey and others!

I have access to the equipment to check for negative pressure in buildings. I will run a 24 hour check to make sure that I'm not suffering from that condition right off the bat. I know that I don't show any signs of bad negative or positive pressure problems as of now. But I will check for any minor pressure problems!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks for your help Smokey and others!

I have access to the equipment to check for negative pressure in buildings. I will run a 24 hour check to make sure that I'm not suffering from that condition right off the bat. I know that I don't show any signs of bad negative or positive pressure problems as of now. But I will check for any minor pressure problems!

Glad to hear that as some folks get introduced to that situation in a bad way.

Remember a clean stove is a happy, warm, and safe stove.

 

[bags]

Well learned some more. Makes sense. Let me run this by then. IF you are only dealing with an 8" to 10" would it then be OK to just run the pipe straight thru and seal the hole with high temp silicone? IF it is all concrete only. Non-combustible says to me the thimble is useless other than maybe a trim plate inside and out.

After reading what you said I probably wouldn't do some things for reasons stated. Definitely a single pipe straight run with no joints. A joint inside the wall I see as a major no go. Read where too many leak and have issues with joints as it is. I high temp silicone every one of mine and not just a quick and dirty smeared up mess around the outside.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In a 100% non combustible situation a straight through vent run can be done and the vent penetration sealed. Provided the locals don't have a gotcha in their version of the codes

If he didn't have that wall cavity to deal with and there was no combustible material under that stucco he would have a much easier job of things.

Basement installs can be a royal pain. They take planning on several different fronts.

 

[broncbob]

The wall cavity is the only combustible worry I have, the stucco on the foundation is just stucco on the concrete to dress it up, there is no foam or any other material behind it. Just a quick skim coat to dress up the foundation a bit.

I agree that it needs a lot of planning, just a bit more than I thought. I have a T-40 that has lived on the main floor of this house since 1999 with out any issues other than the ignition element going bad. The former owner has it direct vented, and it passes inspection, but tends to make a mess on the stucco. I plan to do a vertical vent through the roof in the spring.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Sounds like you have a plan remember measure many times and only cut once.