Vermont Castings Dutchwest Everburn Stove Demo Videos

[tradergordo]

Not sure how useful this will be, but I figured with all the discussion about everburn technology, it was about time I made a video that at least shows how the stove can perform well under the right circumstances. I may add a couple more to the series, but for now I think it covers a lot. There are currently 5 parts. I am using and demonstrating pretty much all of the things I've learned that work. But really this was with ideal circumstances that will not exist all the time for all users. I am using good, seasoned, dry hardwood; I have basically the perfect installation with a straight up flue/chimney; I am burning on a cold day, with a high pressure system outside -- all of this adds up to the best possible conditions for this stove.

Note: There is absolutely no editing to these videos, so they are pretty raw, but obviously also very honest, I show a clock in every video so you know exactly how much time has elapsed (not to mention I show the temps in the room, in the flue, and at various points on the stove itself). I also show the chimney at various stages in the burn (although there are no emissions to see, haha). These were all shot yesterday.

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[Todd]

Trader,
I've clicked on every link and they are all the same? Do i have to subcribe? But I do have some advice. By the looks of your splits, you might get better results if you split them in half. They seem a little large to me. I only use those sized splits 1 or 2 at a time and when I'm looking for a long burn at reload with established coals.

 

[tradergordo]

Trader,
I've clicked on every link and they are all the same? Do i have to subcribe? But I do have some advice. By the looks of your splits, you might get better results if you split them in half. They seem a little large to me. I only use those sized splits 1 or 2 at a time and when I'm looking for a long burn at reload with established coals.

Sorry, the links were screwed up, I just fixed them, give it another try.
As for split size - it depends on what you are trying to do. Small splits are great for quickly establishing a coal bed. Ideally you aren't doing that very often. For a good overnight burn, with this stove, I have found that its best to stuff the biggest splits you can fit though the door, but you're only going to get 2 in there, then fill in all the gaps with whatever you can fit. So yea, you need basically all different sizes of split. I didn't actually show how I prepare the stove for an overnight burn, but its BASICALLY like you see in the last video, only in that video I only put two somewhat large splits on, nothing else, and dampered immediately and cut the air immediately. When I do the same, but add extra wood to completely fill the firebox, I get consistent 8-10 hour burns with nice big coal beds when I wake up in the morning so that I can bring the temps up and damper down again within 20 minutes. This routine has been working well for me.

 

[Todd]

Looks like the stove is doing what it's suppose to do. The fire looks just like a cat stove, slow lazy burn. Do you think these downdraft stoves are just more temperamental to the outside temps? What was the outside temp when you made this video?

 

[jtp10181]

Site says I need to upgrade flash player, which I already had the newest version of. Went to the link it had which re-installed and it still says the same thing.

 

[bmwbj]

Trader, Awsome videos, I wish someone had some demo videos like that for a VC IntrepidII. I can never seem to get mine to operate like that. I think I'm just not running her hot enough. It seems like every time I damper it down, I get tons of smoke. My wood is very dry, and I let the stove get to about 700 and the outside
pipe magnetic thermometer reads about 600. Maybe I shoult let her get hotter? what do you think. I love to see a good video on the proper operation of my stove.

 

[tradergordo]

Looks like the stove is doing what it's suppose to do. The fire looks just like a cat stove, slow lazy burn. Do you think these downdraft stoves are just more temperamental to the outside temps? What was the outside temp when you made this video?

Yea, the folks at Vermont Castings have said that a lot of people were surprised by how little flame there can be when its dampered down. Sometimes you will see no flame at all, and if you've got it stuffed full of wood, sometimes you won't even see the orange glow - you wouldn't even know there was a fire if it weren't for the temperature readings and the heat coming off it.

I DO, absolutely think that the downdraft stoves are more temperamental to outside temps (and pressure). When I made the video the outside temp was between 22 and 25 degrees F. I have much more difficulty when the outside temps are around 35+ and/or certain low pressure conditions. Under poor conditions, I usually have to burn more with the air up after dampering down and be careful to maintain a good coal bed. Burning hotter compensates for other factors that lower draft. Of course if its warmer outside, you don't always want so much heat inside, which means you might have to let the stove linger in the coal stage for much longer or even let it basically go out.

 

[tradergordo]

Site says I need to upgrade flash player, which I already had the newest version of. Went to the link it had which re-installed and it still says the same thing.

Does your computer play youtube videos? I thought Metacafe was basically the same, not sure. But anyway I found this help page for people having trouble playing the videos:
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By the way, that site is pretty easy to use. I would love to see more videos from the hearth community. There are a lot of tools out there that can painlessly convert the .avi file from your digital camera to the format required to work on the video hosting websites.

Some videos I was thinking of making:
Splitting wood (could include stacking/covering/etc)
Using a chainsaw.
Stove maintenance (checking the gaskets - dollar bill test, tightening the doors, fixing or replacing firebrick, etc)
Chimney sweeping
How to optimize heat distribution thoughout the house (insulation ideas, passive solar, fans, etc)

 

[Gunner]

Good video's Gordo,

The only thing thats wierd to me is the flue gas being higher than the stovetop. My stove is the exact opposite with the flue gas being consistantly 200 deg lower than the stovetop.

 

[tradergordo]

Good video's Gordo,

The only thing thats wierd to me is the flue gas being higher than the stovetop. My stove is the exact opposite with the flue gas being consistantly 200 deg lower than the stovetop.

I'd love to see these details for a bunch of different popular stoves. Just curious - how do you measure your flue gas? These temps can vary WILDLY depending on how you measure them (as little as a few inches up or down the flue makes a big difference, and of course probe vs. external makes a huge difference. Mine is an internal probe at about 14 inches up the flue.

That said, I've always thought the existing everburn designs were somewhat poor when it came to heat exchange. If you really look closely at one, its easy to see why. Basically secondary combustion occurs at the back of the stove and all of those gasses go straight up the flue, unimpeded by anything, there is no direct path even to the griddle top (which ISN'T the top of the firebox by the way). The entire secondary combustion chamber is also insulated with a ceramic filament material that impedes heat from reaching the cast iron. The design promotes good draft, and if you can recapture some of that flue gas heat by using a long run of single wall pipe like I do, you really don't lose anything. But if you have a setup that doesn't allow you to capture that heat and use it, then this might be a reason not to buy this type of stove.

 

[Bill]

Thanks for making the videos, very informative. I still think the DW is one nice looking stove.

 

[Todd]

Good video's Gordo,

The only thing thats wierd to me is the flue gas being higher than the stovetop. My stove is the exact opposite with the flue gas being consistantly 200 deg lower than the stovetop.

I'd love to see these details for a bunch of different popular stoves. Just curious - how do you measure your flue gas? These temps can vary WILDLY depending on how you measure them (as little as a few inches up or down the flue makes a big difference, and of course probe vs. external makes a huge difference. Mine is an internal probe at about 14 inches up the flue.

That said, I've always thought the existing everburn designs were somewhat poor when it came to heat exchange. If you really look closely at one, its easy to see why. Basically secondary combustion occurs at the back of the stove and all of those gasses go straight up the flue, unimpeded by anything, there is no direct path even to the griddle top (which ISN'T the top of the firebox by the way). The entire secondary combustion chamber is also insulated with a ceramic filament material that impedes heat from reaching the cast iron. The design promotes good draft, and if you can recapture some of that flue gas heat buy using a long run of single wall pipe like I do, you really don't lose anything. But if you have a setup that doesn't allow you to capture that heat and use it, then this might be a reason not to buy this type of stove.

Just to let you know even tho I have a soapstone stove, your internal pipe temps are similar to mine. When I'm running a 500-600 stove top temp my internal pipe temps are 600-800. I also noticed my temps are similar to yours in the bypass mode.

 

[Jfk4th]

Great video gordo, and a nice wood shed full of wood. I love this stove, I like the side loading feature and the everburn rumble. Man If I could afford a huge ass house, I am talking 10,000 sq ft, I would have a Pacific Energy Summit, Avalon Olympic, Dutchwest Everburn, and Hearthstone Mansfield Soapstone all spread out accordingly. That should "my" house warm and toasty.
And since I was rich I could spend all day in my 3000 acre woods and cut trees down, ride my John Deere tractor to my backyard and split them in my 1000 sq ft wood shed!

Then watch sports and movies with my 100 inch HD Plasma TV.

Oh "If I had a million dollars......."

Sooo many good woodstove out there....

 

[tradergordo]

Thanks for making the videos, very informative. I still think the DW is one nice looking stove.

I like the look too. I think it has a sort of "fierce/powerful" vibe as opposed to "wimpy/docile/pretty". Heh. But it's also practical, those expensive enamel stoves don't radiate heat as well as simple, black, cast iron.

 

[Gunner]

Good video's Gordo,

The only thing thats wierd to me is the flue gas being higher than the stovetop. My stove is the exact opposite with the flue gas being consistantly 200 deg lower than the stovetop.

I'd love to see these details for a bunch of different popular stoves. Just curious - how do you measure your flue gas? These temps can vary WILDLY depending on how you measure them (as little as a few inches up or down the flue makes a big difference, and of course probe vs. external makes a huge difference. Mine is an internal probe at about 14 inches up the flue.

That said, I've always thought the existing everburn designs were somewhat poor when it came to heat exchange. If you really look closely at one, its easy to see why. Basically secondary combustion occurs at the back of the stove and all of those gasses go straight up the flue, unimpeded by anything, there is no direct path even to the griddle top (which ISN'T the top of the firebox by the way). The entire secondary combustion chamber is also insulated with a ceramic filament material that impedes heat from reaching the cast iron. The design promotes good draft, and if you can recapture some of that flue gas heat by using a long run of single wall pipe like I do, you really don't lose anything. But if you have a setup that doesn't allow you to capture that heat and use it, then this might be a reason not to buy this type of stove.

Double wall stovepipe, Probe thermo, 18" +/- from the collar.

When I'm 600 stovetop flue gas is 400

 

[Gunner]

Good video's Gordo,

The only thing thats wierd to me is the flue gas being higher than the stovetop. My stove is the exact opposite with the flue gas being consistantly 200 deg lower than the stovetop.

I'd love to see these details for a bunch of different popular stoves. Just curious - how do you measure your flue gas? These temps can vary WILDLY depending on how you measure them (as little as a few inches up or down the flue makes a big difference, and of course probe vs. external makes a huge difference. Mine is an internal probe at about 14 inches up the flue.

That said, I've always thought the existing everburn designs were somewhat poor when it came to heat exchange. If you really look closely at one, its easy to see why. Basically secondary combustion occurs at the back of the stove and all of those gasses go straight up the flue, unimpeded by anything, there is no direct path even to the griddle top (which ISN'T the top of the firebox by the way). The entire secondary combustion chamber is also insulated with a ceramic filament material that impedes heat from reaching the cast iron. The design promotes good draft, and if you can recapture some of that flue gas heat buy using a long run of single wall pipe like I do, you really don't lose anything. But if you have a setup that doesn't allow you to capture that heat and use it, then this might be a reason not to buy this type of stove.

Just to let you know even tho I have a soapstone stove, your internal pipe temps are similar to mine. When I'm running a 500-600 stove top temp my internal pipe temps are 600-800. I also noticed my temps are similar to yours in the bypass mode.

I must be losing my mind todd, I swore I remember you saying your flue gas temps are LOWER than your stovetop and that's why you felt you got "more" out of the cat stove.

 

[Todd]

Gunner, you aren't losing your mind. I did say that, but that was when I had an external thermo. I recently purchased a probe thermo. My external reads about 250-350 while the internal is between 600-800 stove top of 500-600.

400 seems kinda low for an internal stack temp while stove top is 600? My probe says that is right on the cutoff line for creosote formation. Maybe your thermo is off by a bit, or more likely that PE Summit is so damn efficient it's right on? ;-)

 

[Gunner]

I don't know...it could be off.

After I char a new load and everthing settles in, probe flue gas is always 200 lower than whatever stovetop is.

 

[Todd]

I don't know...it could be off.

After I char a new load and everthing settles in, probe flue gas is always 200 lower than whatever stovetop is.

Try putting your external thermo next to your probe and see what you get.

 

[Gunner]

Will do, tomorrow when I get home.

 

[tradergordo]

Creosote forms around 270-300F. If you are seeing 400 internally at the bottom of your stack, its almost certain to be in the creosote forming range toward the top of the stack. Has anyone ever seen published figures for how many degrees flue gasses typically cool per foot traveled in standard flues and chimneys? I'd be interested in this info... but if most or all of the smoke is being burned up (i.e. you don't see smoke coming out of your stack) then creosote probably isn't going to be a problem.

 

[BrotherBart]

Creosote formation occurs when the pipe surface is below the boiling point of water, 212 degrees. A pipe at 250 or more all the way up is gonna do just fine.

I have to go up and look at my pipes in a few days. I will drop a remote barbecue thermo down one of them to see what the temp is up there at various points of the burn.

Some times don't ya just feel sorry for all of those millions of wood burners that just light the thing and don't worry about all of this stuff?

 

[TMonter]

A pipe at 250 or more all the way up is gonna do just fine.

Actually creosote starts forming at 273F (if you want to be exact) and gets consistently worse as the temp drops. This is the condensation point of unburnt hydrocarbons (VOC's) for wood fuels. It has a lot to do with concentration and moisture content as well as other various factors.

I've noticed if I stay above 250 as BB says with well seasoned wood, creosote formation is minimal (except on the damn rain cap).

 

[jtp10181]

Site says I need to upgrade flash player, which I already had the newest version of. Went to the link it had which re-installed and it still says the same thing.

Does your computer play youtube videos? I thought Metacafe was basically the same, not sure. But anyway I found this help page for people having trouble playing the videos:
(broken link removed)

Had to uninstall and re-install flash player. It worked fine on everything else so dunno what the problem what. Works now though.

 

[Gunner]

I can tell you for sure that I do not have a creo problem in my stack...I got about 2 cups of fine tan powder last year from 24'. I have burned 2 1/2 cords so far, and will burn another 2. I have not and will not need to clean my cap. Also the outside top 3' of chimney is clean as new.