Vermont castings Gifford insert

[Shoobedoo]

*** I decided to cross post this here because my impression is that the manufacturer sub-forum doesn't get much traffic***

Greetings to the forums from a newbie. The wife and I recently moved in to our new home, a modern log style house on 8 acres in a mostly rural area of the Potomac Highlands region of eastern West Virginia.

The house came with an older Lennox zero clearance fireplace that is pretty to look at but basically worthless as a heating appliance. I should note that the house is tight and well insulated and has a newish heat pump that keeps the place nice and warm, so we are not trying to heat the place with wood by any stretch. We wanted a wood burning insert for the ZC, but we found very limited options because of the relatively small fireplace opening, so we settled on a Vermont Castings Gifford because it was the only thing offered by any local stove sellers/installers that would fit.

I would be interested to hear opinions etc. from anyone that has experience with the VC Gifford insert.

Thanks.

 

[begreen]

It's a Quadrafire Expedition I insert, with different trim. Both are HHT, fixed burn rate inserts. Ok for nights and weekends, but not the best if the goal is 24/7 heating with wood. The shallow firebox will only hold a few splits at a time.

What is the make an model of the ZC fireplace? Does it allow or prohibit an insert to be installed in the documentation?

 

[Shoobedoo]

Thanks for the reply.

The goal isn't 24/7 heating, but it would be nice if it will supplement the heat pump. I was already expecting to be tending the fire frequently due to the small firebox, but i'm retired and have basically unlimited free time for it, lol.

The ZC is a Lennox HC 24, it came with the house and we received no documentation with it. The stove retailer/installer (Warner's in Cumberland MD) saw no issues with putting the VC Gifford in there, but they'll have to change out the stainless stove pipe that runs up the chimney.

 

[begreen]

Sorry, I am not finding anything pertaining to a HC 24. Did you mean the HC 42? If so, the fireplace can not have an insert installed unless it is specified by the manufacturer. This is from the manual:

13. DO NOT use a fireplace insert or any other
products not specified herein by the manufac-
turer for use with this fireplace.

This is the manual for the HC 42.

Table Of Contents; Safety Rules; Tools And Building Supplies - Lennox RD-42 Installation Instructions Manual [Page 2]

View and Download Lennox RD-42 installation instructions manual online. Merit Series 42'' Wood Burning Fireplaces. RD-42 indoor fireplace pdf manual download. Table of Contents: Precautions - Page 3; Assembly Outline - Page 4; Assembly Steps - Page 5; Fireplace Specifications - Page 6;...

www.manualslib.com

 

[Shoobedoo]

Yes HC 42, sorry.

Is their something in the document you linked that says I should not put a Gifford in it, because if there is I am not seeing it.

I have been unable to find any specific info on compatibility of the Lennox HC 42 ZC fireplace and the Gifford insert, either from HHT, Vermont Castings, or Lennox.

I did however find out that the Lopi Medium Flush nex gen Fyre insert specifically lists Lennox ZC fireplaces as being compatible. The Lopi unit is slightly larger than the Gifford and has a considerably greater heat output, so I assume if it is approved for use with Lennox ZC fireplaces then the Gifford should be ok, but I don't know...??

 

[EbS-P]

Yes HC 42, sorry.

Is their something in the document you linked that says I should not put a Gifford in it, because if there is I am not seeing it.

I have been unable to find any specific info on compatibility of the Lennox HC 42 ZC fireplace and the Gifford insert, either from HHT, Vermont Castings, or Lennox.

I did however find out that the Lopi Medium Flush nex gen Fyre insert specifically lists Lennox ZC fireplaces as being compatible. The Lopi unit is slightly larger than the Gifford and has a considerably greater heat output, so I assume if it is approved for use with Lennox ZC fireplaces then the Gifford should be ok, but I don't know...??

to restrain its UL listing the fireplace must be tested with any products that are allowed to be installed. So if it is not on the install list it wasn’t tested. If you choose to install untested products then then you have violated the the install manual and the fireplace is no longer UL listed. Ask your insurance how they feel about unlisted heating appliances.

Yes you can and some professionals will do the installation. There is no way to guarantee that it is safe without testing.

The other red flag was the installer wanted to replace the UL approved chimney of the ZC unit with something else. Is that allowed in the manual?

It’s a fire in your house you want it to be on the up and up. A UL listed appliance installed according to the manufacturers instructions assures that it is safe. Modifying a UL appliance is not safe and voids the UL listing.

 

[Shoobedoo]

What install list...?? There isn't one that I can find anywhere, and that's part of the problem.

The installer wants to replace the stainless pipe from the ZC fireplace because it doesn't meet the local building codes for the temperatures of the gasses that will be generated (much higher) by the Gifford insert versus the Lennox ZC fireplace. That seems like they know what they are talking about on that point anyway. I guess if I am going to get a straight answer on whether or not the Gifford is safe to put in a Lennox ZC fireplace i'm going to have to contact HHT/Vermont Castings directly because there is no info in that regard on their respective web pages, I thought I had been clear about that.

Thanks for the reply anyway.

 

[EbS-P]

What install list...?? There isn't one that I can find anywhere, and that's part of the problem.

The installer wants to replace the stainless pipe from the ZC fireplace because it doesn't meet the local building codes for the temperatures of the gasses that will be generated (much higher) by the Gifford insert versus the Lennox ZC fireplace. That seems like they know what they are talking about on that point anyway. I guess if I am going to get a straight answer on whether or not the Gifford is safe to put in a Lennox ZC fireplace i'm going to have to contact HHT/Vermont Castings directly because there is no info in that regard on their respective web pages, I thought I had been clear about that.

Thanks for the reply anyway.

Have you found the ID tag on the current ZC? All the answers you want can be found in the manual for your ZC. If it’s not in there then it’s not allowed. That’s how the UL listing/testing works. Just because it can be done and a professional is willing doesn’t mean it’s the right thing. It doesn’t mean it’s not safe either. The only way to be sure any modifications are safe is to have them tested and UL approved. You are not alone. This topic comes up almost weekly.

 

[Shoobedoo]

I thought I made this clear earlier... We didn't get any documentation with the ZC when we purchased the home. If you had read up thread you'd also know that the other guy (begreen) posted a PDF copy of the manual, and as noted up thread as well there is no list of approved inserts in it.

FWIW, just to be sure I didn't miss something I went back and read every single page of the PDF manual that begreen posted and there is no mention whatsoever of any approved or tested inserts, as in none of any make or model.

I appreciate your concerns but as I said I am going to have to contact HHT/Vermont castings or possibly Lennox directly to try and get a definitive answer on this. Continually telling me about UL listings etc. isn't going to get this resolved, but thanks anyway.

 

[mdmount]

Hi, did you ever install the Gifford? I have one and would like to find someone I can commiserate with.
M

 

[Shoobedoo]

Hi, did you ever install the Gifford? I have one and would like to find someone I can commiserate with.
M

No, we decided against it since the ZC fireplace we have isn't approved for inserts.

 

[mdmount]

Ok, I bought one and was wondering how you liked yours. Happy burning!
M