Vermont Castings, quality in recent years

[Cath]

I have a lead on a newer VC stove. I realize their reputation is returning to its former luster. How new would a stove of theirs need to be in order to be relatively certain of its quality?

The stove I have in mind is described as roughly 3 years old. Should I try and pinpoint the date of purchase more accurately?
Thanks,
~Cath

 

[begreen]

There was a bad run in the 90's - Resolute Acclaim burnt out it's innards regularly. Craig and Elk can fill you in on other issues. I think you would be fine with a 3 yr old VC if it's been treated well. Where will the stove be going and what size is it?

 

[kwburn]

i too agree that anything 3 years old if treated properly should be good to go. i think the Aspen or Intrepid NON-CAT would be the only two models with somewhat shaky reviews that were being sold at that time but even on those i think it was more design than quality control.

my two cents.

 

[elkimmeg]

Cath the resolute acclaim too the most heat in more ways than one the original steel heat places warped and cracked Research was done to replace those plates with more durable refractory castings True even when QC q was in question VC was working on solutions and learning moving forward.

Let me explain the situation hythetically Say VC makes 50,000 stoves a year and the percentage of qc is 2% that;s 1000 stoves with issues. A smaller manufacturer makes 5000 stoves their qcc % the same thats 100 stoves. Connon sense tell you who has the most vollume to be vocal? Forgetting the 49,000 stoves are preforming as they should in homes or 4,900 of the smaller manufacturer. Any used stove should be time tested by now and either the parts replaced or there in glaring evidence for all to witness the defect. Another factor is abuse
People that overfired their stoves and assume its a qc issue again 50,000 on the market a larger % will be heard from. Point being there were many good stoves manufactured during the lesser QC era People loose that point. This is not just a VC issue but common sense applied to all manufacturing.

I would be more concerned about the user ability to burn properly in any used stove manufacture make little difference. Gaskets do wear out and need replacing or the idiot who uses the open ash door to fire his stove and forgets to close it. Or using wax logs and combustiable fluids to fire a stove or the guy that forgets to close the wide open air supply. There is a much better chance that defects happened due to usser error or abuse, more than any QC issues. These issues are not confined to one manufacturer.

To answer your question VC was first bought out in 1993 or there abouts by Majestic. Majestic got bougth out in 1996 by CFM. It was during this time QC issues increased. Yes CFM milked the VC name and quality treated dealers poorly started selling gas grills to the box stores that further pissed off their dealers and all dealers live with the fear that stoves would be next.

Parts support was not what is should have been also during this time. VC oppend up their own stores which futher pissed off dealers. they also took on additional dealerships in the territioy of established ones. All this in effort to milk every last $$$ for themselves and share holders. This usually occures after corporate take overs. Quite a few dealers felt they were treated poorly and they were and dropped the VC line but they also did not spread the good news and dissed the crap out ov VC. Not saying Vc did not deserve it. Since VC was one of the few Cat stoves their main line up, one way to diss VC was to attack cat stoves discredit them. Cast doubt in the minds of the buyer. Tell them thay are hard to work costly replacementss.
and that gathered a lot of support,even convient for dealers that never sold a cat stove, to repeat the scorn for cats. Till this day this is still being used to scare off Cat purchers. The cat stove requires more work one more lever to activate. Well the lever that activates the cat is the same damper that most stoves use for secondary combustion. So whether one engages a non cat secondary combustion damper or the cat stove damper, its the same requirement in user imput action. Not to make this a cat vs non cat debate run properly it really is a non issue.

To this day the wounds of past dealership dealings surface scorn towards VC. Craig can confirm anything I said here. I did not try to gloss it over. He was a dealer at this time with VC. and started Hearth.com as a means to communicate with fellow dealers and dealings with distributors and manufactures.. Many early post addressed the concern VC was eliminating the local dealers for the box stores. I myself, do not subscribe to box store competition to the local guys. I feel it is like a cancer hurting long established familly run stores. I limit my shopping there and prefere to support the locals when ever I can. The familly I see at the post office or at Church Sunday.

 

[Cath]

...
... Another factor is abuse People that overfired their stoves and assume its a qc issue again 50,000 on the market a larger % will be heard from. Point being there were many good stoves manufactured during the lesser QC era People loose that point. This is not just a VC issue but common sense applied to all manufacturing.
...
To answer your question VC was first bought out in 1993 or there abouts by Majestic. Majestic got bougth out in 1996 by CFM. It was during this time QC issues increased. Yes CFM milked the VC name and quality treated dealers poorly started selling gas grills to the box stores that further pissed off their dealers and all dealers live with the fear that stoves would be next.
...
Quite a few dealers felt they were treated poorly and they were and dropped the VC line but they also did not spread the good news and dissed the crap out ov VC. Not saying Vc did not deserve it. Since VC was one of the few Cat stoves their main line up, one way to diss VC was to attack cat stoves discredit them. Cast doubt in the minds of the buyer. Tell them thay are hard to work costly replacementss.
...
even convient for dealers that never sold a cat stove, to repeat the scorn for cats. Till this day this is still being used to scare off Cat purchers. The cat stove requires more work one more lever to activate. Well the lever that activates the cat is the same damper that most stoves use for secondary combustion. So whether one engages a non cat secondary combustion damper or the cat stove damper, its the same requirement in user imput action. Not to make this a cat vs non cat debate run properly it really is a non issue.
...

Elk,
Thanks for the info and for putting it into historical perspective.

BTW, where are the blowers on the VC Winter Warm? I ask because I remember Rhonemas explaining that the Morgan / Clydesdale are "flush mounts" but the are more efficient if you leave some overhang so the air blows into the room more effectively (because of where the blowers are set). Is that a consideration with the VC WWs?
~Cath

 

[kwburn]

I just know a couple years back when I was looking at Intrepids hearing negative things about the last version of the non-cat model because I was thinking of purchasing one (ended up buying an Intrepid II catalytic). The non-cat version I am thinking of had no top loading unlike the original Intrepid that did but rather only loading through the front. More than one dealer would not recommend it to me at the time and I think the next year it was discontinued (not sure).



quote:
I looked at the reviews for the Intrepid on this site. There were four of them: two positive and two negative. I noticed that the two negative ones were written by the same person.

I personally have an Aspen and it works just fine even with my poor external masonry chimney setup.

The negative reviews written by the same person:

https://www.hearth.com/ratings/art.php?id=1856

https://www.hearth.com/ratings/art.php?id=1927[/quote]

 

[elkimmeg]

KWburn I think I advised the cat intrepid. For the small fire box this is one serious area heater. It does what is is suposed to do and does it well.

I willing to put this stove up against any simmilar fire box size stove i and it will out preform all others hands down clear leader of the fire box class
Kwburn has one am I exagerating? this stove has been so sucesfull that it has had a 20+ year model run ,so far nothing has come close to replacing it

 

[kwburn]

No doubt Elk, I agree with you on the Intrepid catalytic. My wife and I both love it. Bought it brand new (something almost unheard of for me and stoves) and it has been worth every penny. You just need to have realistic expectations for the area you need to heat with it. Ours can handle almost all of our first floor which includes the family room with a cathedral ceiling while our insert at the other end carries the burden of getting heat upstairs.

I've said them before but my favorite qualities:
Top Load - safe, amazingly clean, convenient, smokeless, did i say safe? i only need to open the front doors for access to the ash pan, thats it. everything else from above.
Thermostatic air control - amazingly useful. needs only minor adjustments to the air control here and there. otherwise set it and forget it.
Very efficient - does it burn overnight? of course not, its a small stove with a small firebox. but it will squeeze more out of a couple of little logs than anything else out there. i can literally carry in one basket of 8 or so small splits and it will last me most of the day and into the evening. god, my old wood hungry insert will inhale that in 2 hours.

The cat operation is very easy after a very short learning curve. You just need a stove thermometer in the middle of the griddle to keep you informed.

KWburn I think I advised the cat intrepid. For the small fire box this is one serious area heater. It does what is is suposed to do and does it well.

I willing to put this stove up against any simmilar fire box size stove i and it will out preform all others hands down clear leader of the fire box class
Kwburn has one am I exagerating? this stove has been so sucesfull that it has had a 20+ year model run ,so far nothing has come close to replacing it