Vermont castings reliance

[shootrj2003]

I had a Reliance 2340 given to me ,I’m new to these pellet stoves,,so…everything seems to work ,auger feeds,fans work,it does burn,just does not get real hot or burn well .and after a long time it shuts off ,I’m thinking even at top speed it does not feed enough pellets ,it does feed just not enough.if I put pellets on manually it seems to burn well.I emptied the hopper ,the pellets in the stove seem dry to me,I vacuumed it and all air passages -out it’s a clean stove,at the bottom of the hopper is ,I guess,the feed block which moves back and forth to feed pellets to the auger,it does move,however if I reach down while it’s moving I can fairly easily stop it and even push it back and it will cycle around and move again,is this safety engineered to prevent smashed fingers? If it is I can’t see it pushing much pellets with any force! If not,is it broken or out of adjustment? I removed the back cover and it is operated by a complicated looking linkage and wheel drive,the wheel being turned by attachment to the auger shaft in a planetary manner,its held by an arm against the linkage and it rolls and pushes against the linkage which is attached to the feed block internally and above the auger,hard for me to describe this set up! Sorry., the owners manual is for…well owners ,not guys who want to repair it,to avoid paying the repair guys .a field service manual would be awsome but of course they are hidden from mortals!I hope you can help,this thing weighs about 400 lbs and I don’t want to move it in the house til i know it can work! Thanks.

 

[johneh]

The only thing other than a dirty stove I can think of is the control panel in
manual to T Stat mode?

 

[tbear853]

Welcome!

It does sound like maybe the switch is in t-stat mode, not stove mode? T-stat mode is for if wired to a wall mount t-stat. Stove is flipped to right and runs the stove off it's internal t-stat. Seams like I had that issue once. It's easy to flip and not realise if fishing around for a piece of broken pellet at loading time.

A lot of parts are Dayton, etc, available at W W Graingers.

Have you a manual with it?

 

[shootrj2003]

It’s in the stove mode not thermostat mode.Is that pusher/ feed block right? Or should have some real pushing force behind it?I can basically stop it with thumb pressure.I have An owners manual with it but owners manuals always stop at any real technical info ,like how to adjust feed blocks or remove the auger motor or cleaning an electric eye or even how to find the thermocouple. It helped me get started with the basics ,but doesn’t serve any meat or potatoes with the meal. The good stuff always ends with “call the dealer” or “seek professional help.”and they always try to sell you a new model because that one’s old! You know the drill.lol
By the way ,Bear that2220 is very ,very close to it ,so I know it’s been around for awhile.mine is blue though.

 

[tbear853]

It’s in the stove mode not thermostat mode.Is that pusher/ feed block right? Or should have some real pushing force behind it?I can basically stop it with thumb pressure.

I know of a sliding gate that controls the dropping of pellets into the auger. I've never tested it for force though.

There is a thermocouple in the exhaust that my notes show went bad or at least VC said it did. ... not long after my install. My stove was feeding too fast like it was trying to catchup, they sent me a new one and that was the fix I guess cause it's been fine since. I kept the original, intend to test it maybe.

I also replaced my auger bearings and the motor with the reduction ghear box once in the '90s, a bearing siezed and tore up the gear box ... I made a shield to shield the bearings from excess heat like if the stove ever again ran to empty. Empty let fire back through auger tube to bearing faces I think.

Otherwise, replaced fir pit couple years ago, original developed cracks allowing combustion air to bypass fuel in the pit. I have redone the flue a few times. Good stove.

 

[shootrj2003]

That sounds like what I’m talking about how far does it shut on yours?mine goes about halfway across the hopper opening.thanks for helping by the way.

 

[tbear853]

I haven't yet started burning this year, but I think it closes off the hopper access hole. It's still full of last year's last load of pellets. I'll endeavor to look next it's uncovered. As best as I recall, it's main function is to "close the door" so to speak between the hopper and the auger below ... to keep any flame or burn out of the hopper.

I need to lube mine ... but not testing it's force with my thumb.

 

[shootrj2003]

Does anyone have a picture of a thermocouple for a reliance 2340?this is what I have and it doesn’t look right to me,but hey ,what do I know until I know,you know? How do I test it iron wire + copper - heat the end and check Mv’s? I have multi tester. Pretty primitive simple knowledge of its use but I can learn.

 

[shootrj2003]

Can anyone tell me if this is a normal thermocouple,or at least tell me it is one?

 

[tbear853]

Can anyone tell me if this is a normal thermocouple,or at least tell me it is one?

Looks like it to me. I'll see if I can find my old one for comparison.

 

[Bill A]

The thermocouple looks to be the correct one, but it probably needs to be replaced.
If the stove is shutting off it may be due to the TC opening up as it heats.

In stove temp mode, it feeds pellets until the exhaust temp exceeds the temperature setpoint on the dial.

If you search these forums for Vermont Castings Reliance you will find a few posts where I documented an alternate part that I found on Ebay. The key thing to remember is that it must be an ungrounded type, that is electrically isolated from the fitting that holds it.

The Reliance is all Harman Pellet pro on the inside. The pusher block is spring loaded and meters the amount of pellets that are allowed to fall into the auger underneath. It can be adjusted inside the back of the stove, there is a cast iron plate with knob and lock nut to set the maximum travel the block can move. Ideally it is adjusted so that if the when the auger runs continuously, it will not feed an excess of pellets, i.e. no burning pellets falling off the burn pot.

You might also want to do a deep clean of the inner passages of the stove, the opening under the exhaust blower and in the front of the stove.

Is this one of the all cast iron or steel weldment Reliance's? My stove and TBears are the steel weldment.
Good luck
Bill

 

[tbear853]

Thank you Bill .... I was hoping you'd see this thread we are in.

Below is the "other / older" thread. That oil quietened my fan and stove run flawlessly once I run out / tossed junk pellets. New burn pot is great.

Newbie here with Vermont Castings Reliance 2220

Hello New to this forum and to wood pellet burners, but not to wood stoves and coal stokers. I just acquired a VC Reliance 2220 from a local CL add. The stove seems to be in fairly good shape, feeder works, exhaust blower works, and the two distribution blowers also work. The problem right...

www.hearth.com

 

[shootrj2003]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the “weldment”? And I see the parts are greatly Hartman inside . The local stove store could not help me even to speak with a tech,they were all out,but they would be glad to sell me a new one,I told them no thanks and they lost all interest! It was pretty much what I expected!if it’s anything like Harley Davidson they would prefer old models don’t darken their doorstep!( I own a 77 Sportster) so you could not possibly jury rig a furnace thermo couple I guess?lol So ,can I test this unit with a multi tester? How is it hooked up? What should it read? I assume the steel wire would be + the other- ? Bill ,thank you for getting back to me,I did clean it out - all passages .if it helps it’s a spitting image of the one pictured here.T bears pic just blue. I saw a couple on eBay that to be formy model but not quite the same visually any part numbers to look for? It will probably my cellar shop if I can fix it.

 

[Bill A]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the “weldment”? And I see the parts are greatly Hartman inside . The local stove store could not help me even to speak with a tech,they were all out,but they would be glad to sell me a new one,I told them no thanks and they lost all interest! It was pretty much what I expected!if it’s anything like Harley Davidson they would prefer old models don’t darken their doorstep!( I own a 77 Sportster) so you could not possibly jury rig a furnace thermo couple I guess?lol So ,can I test this unit with a multi tester? How is it hooked up? What should it read? I assume the steel wire would be + the other- ? Bi ll ,thank you for getting back to me,I did clean it out - all passages .if it helps it’s a spitting image of the one pictured here.T bears pic just blue. I saw a couple on eBay that to be formy model but not quite the same visually any part numbers to look for? It will probably my cellar shop if I can fix it.

VC made two versions of the stove, from the outside they look the same, but inside, they have either a welded steel structure (weldment) or one with bolted together cast iron parts. My stove and TBear's are the 2200 series with the welded steel structure. Specs wise, I think the cast iron models put out slightly less heat on high but more importantly the internal parts layout is slightly different, so not sure what parts are different between the two.

TC's can be tested with an ohm-meter, they should read as a dead short since they are two different metals welded together at the end. When heated up they produce a small voltage that the control board can read. If you were to heat it with a lighter or torch you might see 1 or 2 millivolts worth of signal. In my stove and I assume yours, the TC is tied to the internal DC power supply and if it contacts the grounded metal chassis, it will damage the circuit board. Mine was damaged in this way and I had to fix it.

As far as old motorcycles go, I had a 1984 Goldwing that the local Honda dealer wouldn't touch, they only wanted to work on the newer ones so that is how it is with these old stoves, when they need fixing your kind of on your own.
The good news is that the Reliance is really a Harman on the inside with a much prettier face, so parts can be swapped out with newer Harman parts.

 

[shootrj2003]

I see the weldment is the entire unit construction .I’m learning ,I’ll look and see if it’s cast I think it’s steel though.do they both come apart ,as in the sides a nd top etc. Or only the cast unbolt .I have educated myself on TC ‘s ours( Vermont Castings 2340 )being ungrounded j type,are these exposed tip TC’s or did mine lose a probe tip?I see the Tempco MTA01331’s have a probe.I also found there are three type tips grounded,ungrounded,and exposed, mine tests positive for continuity and puts out Mv o.oo cold and up to 26.5 when heated and so works ,for now, I scraped it clean and will reinstall it being careful not to ground it as per your warning but I will replace it as it can’t hurt..I assume it does not matter how far it protrudes into the exhaust as long as heat gets to it?thanks your continued assistance!
After replacing the TC these are my observations,the burner blower works,it does not noticeably increase speed if I turn it up with the switch.(the minimum -maximum rheostat switch on the left side.)the auger is physically turning also,observed from the back of the stove,and is moving the feed block linkage,looking in the fire pot I see I unburnt fresh pellets moving as the auger turns at the very bottom.On the other hand it does not increase speed with the min.- max. Rheostat switch to any significant amount either and ,pellets ,no matter the setting are not filling the fire pot or overflowing or even pushing ashes in the cinder box before it burns up and the the stove shuts down Half an hour ( approx.) the blower fans( right side switch ))seem to be operating, these are my most recent observations and I hope in better tech lingo than my earlier explanations. The sides seem to be cast and un boltable from the bottom. The gaskets all seem good. The stove does not really even get hot before shutdown. The pellets I’m using seem to me to be dry and normal and start burning well ,it simply seems to run out of fuel even though the auger is definitely running.I know this long winded Sorry.

 

[Bill A]

I see the weldment is the entire unit construction .I’m learning ,I’ll look and see if it’s cast I think it’s steel though.do they both come apart ,as in the sides a nd top etc. Or only the cast unbolt .I have educated myself on TC ‘s ours( Vermont Castings 2340 )being ungrounded j type,are these exposed tip TC’s or did mine lose a probe tip?I see the Tempco MTA01331’s have a probe.I also found there are three type tips grounded,ungrounded,and exposed, mine tests positive for continuity and puts out Mv o.oo cold and up to 26.5 when heated and so works ,for now, I scraped it clean and will reinstall it being careful not to ground it as per your warning but I will replace it as it can’t hurt..I assume it does not matter how far it protrudes into the exhaust as long as heat gets to it?thanks your continued assistance!
After replacing the TC these are my observations,the burner blower works,it does not noticeably increase speed if I turn it up with the switch.(the minimum -maximum rheostat switch on the left side.)the auger is physically turning also,observed from the back of the stove,and is moving the feed block linkage,looking in the fire pot I see I unburnt fresh pellets moving as the auger turns at the very bottom.On the other hand it does not increase speed with the min.- max. Rheostat switch to any significant amount either and ,pellets ,no matter the setting are not filling the fire pot or overflowing or even pushing ashes in the cinder box before it burns up and the the stove shuts down Half an hour ( approx.) the blower fans( right side switch ))seem to be operating, these are my most recent observations and I hope in better tech lingo than my earlier explanations. The sides seem to be cast and un boltable from the bottom. The gaskets all seem good. The stove does not really even get hot before shutdown. The pellets I’m using seem to me to be dry and normal and start burning well ,it simply seems to run out of fuel even though the auger is definitely running.I know this long winded Sorry.

Hello Shooter
From pictures I've seen of the original TC from Tbear, it was an exposed type meaning you see the weld ball of the two conductors.
This doesn't mean that a shielded, ungrounded type TC wouldn't work, the one that I used was this type and it worked fine.

I think you misunderstand how the temperature dial is supposed to work. Turning it up doesn't increase the speed of either the feed motor or the exhaust blower. What it does is to raise the temperature setpoint of the exhaust temp TC so that if the exhaust is below the TC's reported temperature, the feed motor turns feeding pellets into the burn pot. Once the exhaust temperature rises above the setpoint temperature, the unit stops feeding pellets. As the pellets burn down, and the exhaust temperature falls below the setpoint, it starts feeding pellets again.

If you look into my old post, it shows my stove with the side panels off, from there you can see the two round tubes that carry the flue gases from the top of the stove into the bottom and to the exhaust blower. Mine is a 2200. It doesn't really matter though, since the mechanicals and the control board were the same on both stoves.

You may want to check the polarity of the TC wire too, if I remember they are white and red. Red is negative and white positive which is backwards from

I see the weldment is the entire unit construction .I’m learning ,I’ll look and see if it’s cast I think it’s steel though.do they both come apart ,as in the sides a nd top etc. Or only the cast unbolt .I have educated myself on TC ‘s ours( Vermont Castings 2340 )being ungrounded j type,are these exposed tip TC’s or did mine lose a probe tip?I see the Tempco MTA01331’s have a probe.I also found there are three type tips grounded,ungrounded,and exposed, mine tests positive for continuity and puts out Mv o.oo cold and up to 26.5 when heated and so works ,for now, I scraped it clean and will reinstall it being careful not to ground it as per your warning but I will replace it as it can’t hurt..I assume it does not matter how far it protrudes into the exhaust as long as heat gets to it?thanks your continued assistance!
After replacing the TC these are my observations,the burner blower works,it does not noticeably increase speed if I turn it up with the switch.(the minimum -maximum rheostat switch on the left side.)the auger is physically turning also,observed from the back of the stove,and is moving the feed block linkage,looking in the fire pot I see I unburnt fresh pellets moving as the auger turns at the very bottom.On the other hand it does not increase speed with the min.- max. Rheostat switch to any significant amount either and ,pellets ,no matter the setting are not filling the fire pot or overflowing or even pushing ashes in the cinder box before it burns up and the the stove shuts down Half an hour ( approx.) the blower fans( right side switch ))seem to be operating, these are my most recent observations and I hope in better tech lingo than my earlier explanations. The sides seem to be cast and un boltable from the bottom. The gaskets all seem good. The stove does not really even get hot before shutdown. The pellets I’m using seem to me to be dry and normal and start burning well ,it simply seems to run out of fuel even though the auger is definitely running.I know this long winded Sorry.

The original TC was an exposed junction type, TBear had shared a picture of one he had as a spare from Vermont Castings. the one I used and recommended was an ungrounded shielded type which means that the TC wires are insulated in a closed SS tube.

I think your misunderstanding how the stove temperature dial works. The TC measures the exhaust temperature and sends that back to the control board. The idle temperature of these stoves is about 200F. Turning the dial up raises the setpoint that the board compares with the exhaust and then either turns the feed motor on if it is below the exhaust. Once it is above it shuts the feed motor off. It doesn't change the speed of either the feed motor or the exhaust blower. Max on the dial means that the setpoint is north of 500F.

If the stove is shutting down, then I think that there is something wrong with the TC or the wires to the board. Disconnecting the TC wires should cause the feed motor to stop turning. The TC is polarized meaning that how it is connected is important. The red wire is negative and the white positive which is contrary to standard wire colors.

As far as what model you have it doesn't really matter much since the internals are still Harman. Mine and TBears are the 2200 series, which were the predecessor of the 2340. Attached is a pix of my stove with the cast iron panels removed.

 

[shootrj2003]

Alright,thanks for clearing that up on how the TC works and ,yes I assumed calling for more heat meant more air and more fuel fed faster,my TC does plug in the board with a one way type connector that would take some butchery and forcing to hook up backward but I will check it,and as I said I’ll order a replacement asap.Also ,as you said,the red is -neg.,
Just to reiterate,howeverI don’t see my feed auger stop anytime until the whole stove shuts down and it burns the pellets in the pot,if the auger is not shutting down that means A.The stove is not reaching the set point temp. Or B.The TC can’t sense a temp.or -can’t sense a temp correctly.Is that possible ,can a TC Work but not sense the temperature correctly?I know it does work I measured it with multi tester but I don’t know how sensitive A new unit is. Also if the auger is not stopping why isn’t the pot filled and overflowing with pellets?my brain hurts and yes I did vote for a new gov.tonight,but got to got bed one more question is the feed auger and the motor shaft one straight solid unit or is there a clutch/slip connection there ,does watching the motor turning mean the auger is turning Also?,brain hurts thanks for you help,good night.

 

[Bill A]

Interesting, so do the rest of the buttons work on the little control panel? Does the stove start with the green and stop with the red button?
If you check out the thread about rewiring the Reliance control panel, I had uploaded a little wiring diagram, in it it shows the feed control pot and the DC voltage you should see if you use your multimeter. Reliance control board wiring
If it doesn't start and stop with the buttons, you could have a damaged circuit board.

 

[shootrj2003]

All the buttons seem to perform their assigned tasks,did you see the video because I don’t see it posted here and I posted it the other day for you?

 

[Bill A]

No, I didn't see a link to a video, but the fact that the control buttons work is a good sign.
You can try this as a quick test of the TC, cut off the weld ball at the end , clean about 1\2" of insulation and any tarnish or corrosion and twist the 2 wires together to make a new TC junction. This should work long enough to see if the TC is the problem. Start the stove and immediately heat the twisted section with a lighter, the feed motor should turn off and turn back on when it cools off. You don't have to light a fire to run this test.

 

[hearthtools]

Does anyone know What is the correct auger motor for this unit?
4 or 6 Rpm?

I fix one last year for someone it had a bad auger motor
Jamed up auger system
And both muffin fans not working
I replaced the fans with generic ones.

Replaced the auger motor with a 4 RPM
The stove would work but the auger bogged down.
Replaced with a higher amp one it was a little better but still had issues sometimes.

I adjusted the pusher with less force yesterday because it was still having a hard time feeding after a load of pellets.

Anyone know where to get a stronger motor and if it needs a 6rpm.

 

[tbear853]

Mine is the 2220, I first replaced the auger motor and drive in 1993 after a siezed bearing on the auger destroyed the reduction gear. I also then put new bearings on the auger and made a shield to shield them in the event the stove runs out of fuel and fire burns in the auger tunnel ... it's like a cup on the shaft. Yesterday, I put a new auger motor in, my 1993 was showing wear, I thought vwas an issue, but now I know my issue is with the feed sliding gate. It barely moves. Anyway, to answer your question, with the 2220 Reliance, with weldment, 4 RPM is correct. The original number was 6Z906, my Dayton lasted long. That number has been replaced, now 1LNF7.

 

[tbear853]

I haven't yet started burning this year, but I think it closes off the hopper access hole. It's still full of last year's last load of pellets. I'll endeavor to look next it's uncovered. As best as I recall, it's main function is to "close the door" so to speak between the hopper and the auger below ... to keep any flame or burn out of the hopper.

I need to lube mine ... but not testing it's force with my thumb.

The Reliance is all Harman Pellet pro on the inside. The pusher block is spring loaded and meters the amount of pellets that are allowed to fall into the auger underneath. It can be adjusted inside the back of the stove, there is a cast iron plate with knob and lock nut to set the maximum travel the block can move. Ideally it is adjusted so that if the when the auger runs continuously, it will not feed an excess of pellets, i.e. no burning pellets falling off the burn pot.

Bill

I quote a prior post of mine and a partial of Bill's. Recently, like last couple days, I was seeking to chase down a "blockage" that I narrowed down to the feed block that slides below the pellet hopper, above the horizontal auger feeding the fire. It uses a 1/4 RPM motor, it's a small electric motor connected to a really high reduction gear box, so torque is high after the speed slow down. The feed block has a rectangle opening, it slides on a shelf ... and it never totally blocks the passage from hopper to auger. It backs up to "load" position and the first time, it fills, then to transfer pellets below, it moves to "dump" position which is maybe only 3/8 or 1/2", When it "dumps", it never totally empties ... it just pushes a few pellets out over the edge of the surface upon which it slides to drop into the auger. Part of the rectangular opening is always open to the pellet hopper above, as well as the auger below. The shelf it slides on is under the pellets in it, only the portion unsupported by the slide actually dumps.

The sliding feed block is pushed into "dump" by a lever and cam operated by a roller on the connection between auger motor and auger. A simple spring is all that returns the pusher block back to it's "load" position as it pulls the cam lever upward.

I see now why the manufacturer says pellets over an inch long can bridge the pellet drop opening. I also see how buildup behind the block can limit it's spring powered return to load.

 

[tbear853]

I forgot to attach this to the above post yesterday, might help explain? Was taken with my feed block in total "reload" position. The adjustment for stroke as seen on the cover of the feed weldment feed block compartment is set at the factory, it is locked by a set screw. Ifg ever adjusted to increase, it backs the screw out thus allowing the feed block to recede further to the left under spring power for "a bigger bite" is all, it has no effect on total travel to the right powered by the cam or auger drive.