Vogelzang hard to control fire

[larryjbjr]

Ok, so I purchased a Vogelzang VG3200-P from Menards and installed it myself. Not my first wood stove install, not that that means much, just saying. I've included a pic of the stove pipe from stove to chimney for reference. I ran 15 feet of stainless double wall chimney thru the basement ceiling, thru a closet on the main floor, thru that ceiling, and out the roof. just over 4 feet of chimney sticking thru the roof, meets or exceeds the 3-2-10 rule. Let me tell you, this chimney has excellent draft. Way better than my previous install at my old house. When I lit the fire there was zero smoke came out of the stove door.

Fired up my first fire in it since moving it inside (lit 2 fires in it when it was still on the utility trailer to burn off the paint smell before moving it inside) and find it nearly impossible to control the fire. I lit a small fire for starters but even with both the primary and secondary air controls totally closed the fire just burnt about as hot as it wanted to (the stove top was almost 700 deg in the center). I even tried stuffing a towel in the hole in the back where you would connect an Outside Air Kit, and still no effect on the fire. What gives?

I called US Stove company ( the manufacturer) and the lady there told me that with these new EPA 2020 stoves you have to caulk the stove pipe or fresh air will travel down the pipe and into the firebox causing my problem. Now, I'm no genius, but that sounds like she is just crazy. Can fresh air travel down the stove pipe, which again has excellent draft pulling air UP, especially while there is a hot fire in the firebox?

 

[john26]

Check around the door hinges and the welds on the fire box. I have an Ashley Af700 furnace (US Stove) where the hinges were welded to to the face of the stove there was a gap and it pulled air into the firebox, I covered the gaps on the inside with extra fire brick. Also check you door make sure it seals tight hinges or latch may need adjustment. Place a dollar bill between the face of the stove and the door, close the door if you can move the dollar you need to tighten it up. With stove burning light an incense stick move it around the stove slowly and see where it draws in. Gaps in stove pipe usually draws in air there should be no need to seal them your class A chimney should seal on its own.

 

[clux]

Add a pipe damper.

 

[bholler]

Ok, so I purchased a Vogelzang VG3200-P from Menards and installed it myself. Not my first wood stove install, not that that means much, just saying. I've included a pic of the stove pipe from stove to chimney for reference. I ran 15 feet of stainless double wall chimney thru the basement ceiling, thru a closet on the main floor, thru that ceiling, and out the roof. just over 4 feet of chimney sticking thru the roof, meets or exceeds the 3-2-10 rule. Let me tell you, this chimney has excellent draft. Way better than my previous install at my old house. When I lit the fire there was zero smoke came out of the stove door.

Fired up my first fire in it since moving it inside (lit 2 fires in it when it was still on the utility trailer to burn off the paint smell before moving it inside) and find it nearly impossible to control the fire. I lit a small fire for starters but even with both the primary and secondary air controls totally closed the fire just burnt about as hot as it wanted to (the stove top was almost 700 deg in the center). I even tried stuffing a towel in the hole in the back where you would connect an Outside Air Kit, and still no effect on the fire. What gives?

I called US Stove company ( the manufacturer) and the lady there told me that with these new EPA 2020 stoves you have to caulk the stove pipe or fresh air will travel down the pipe and into the firebox causing my problem. Now, I'm no genius, but that sounds like she is just crazy. Can fresh air travel down the stove pipe, which again has excellent draft pulling air UP, especially while there is a hot fire in the firebox?

View attachment 302534

Nope she is crazy. Check the door for leaks you may need a damper

 

[larryjbjr]

Nope she is crazy. Check the door for leaks you may need a damper

Figured so.

I have a damper but not sure where to put it. I've heard not good to put it too close to the stove but wasn't sure if I could put it up on the long angled stretch between the two 45's.

 

[larryjbjr]

Also, thought of something after posting. Since it was my first fire in this stove I just took some 15" long 2x4s and split them in strips and used that for my first fire. Could the problem have been that my wood was split so small?

I have some actual hardwood splits but scared to start too big of a fire now that that one was hard to control.

 

[larryjbjr]

Check around the door hinges and the welds on the fire box. I have an Ashley Af700 furnace (US Stove) where the hinges were welded to to the face of the stove there was a gap and it pulled air into the firebox, I covered the gaps on the inside with extra fire brick. Also check you door make sure it seals tight hinges or latch may need adjustment. Place a dollar bill between the face of the stove and the door, close the door if you can move the dollar you need to tighten it up. With stove burning light an incense stick move it around the stove slowly and see where it draws in. Gaps in stove pipe usually draws in air there should be no need to seal them your class A chimney should seal on its own.

So, by the hinges I could not move the dollar bill no matter how hard I pulled. However, as I got closer to the latch I found that it was not loose but I could pull it out without much effort. Don't have any incense, but a smoking kleenex moved around the door it seemed that some smoke was pulled into the stove by the latch area, but not much.

The latch is a bit wobbly when door is open so I will try to tighten it.

 

[clux]

Also, thought of something after posting. Since it was my first fire in this stove I just took some 15" long 2x4s and split them in strips and used that for my first fire. Could the problem have been that my wood was split so small?

I have some actual hardwood splits but scared to start too big of a fire now that that one was hard to control.

You want to be able to shut it down regardless of the size of fuel you're using.

 

[bholler]

Also, thought of something after posting. Since it was my first fire in this stove I just took some 15" long 2x4s and split them in strips and used that for my first fire. Could the problem have been that my wood was split so small?

I have some actual hardwood splits but scared to start too big of a fire now that that one was hard to control.

Yes very small and very dry soft wood will make it hard to control. And regardless 700 on the stovetop is not at all over firing. I would try running it as is and see how it goes. Your chimney is not that tall it shouldn't be over drafting

 

[larryjbjr]

Ok, I put the damper right above the first 45.

No way to tighten the door latch as far as I can tell.

 

[bholler]

Ok, I put the damper right above the first 45.

No way to tighten the door latch as far as I can tell.

View attachment 302544

If the bill takes a fair amount of force to pull out it's fine. Post a picture of the latch. Many of the cheap stoves the only way to adjust them is by bending them

 

[larryjbjr]

If the bill takes a fair amount of force to pull out it's fine. Post a picture of the latch. Many of the cheap stoves the only way to adjust them is by bending them

Well, it doesn't just slide out, but I think a 4 year old could pull it out.

Here is a pic of the latch. As you can see there is a nut on the outside, then the latch, then 2 washer, and then 2 more nuts. I can remove the outer nut, but not tighten it beyond what it already was. Doesn't look like any thread left to tighten the inner nuts. Tried to remove the latch to remove a washer, but latch will not budge even with nut removed.

 

[bholler]

Well, it doesn't just slide out, but I think a 4 year old could pull it out.

Here is a pic of the latch. As you can see there is a nut on the outside, then the latch, then 2 washer, and then 2 more nuts. I can remove the outer nut, but not tighten it beyond what it already was. Doesn't look like any thread left to tighten the inner nuts. Tried to remove the latch to remove a washer, but latch will not budge even with nut removed.

View attachment 302545 View attachment 302546

You have a stack of washers behind the latch. Take one out and move it to the front and the latch will get tighter

 

[brenndatomu]

VZ stoves tend to be "easy breathers"...I had a little VZ Defender and there is not much I could do with it other than plug off some intake holes (it was in a fireplace, so no room for a pipe damper, which is what I would have preferred)
I covered half of the one large primary air hole, the boost air hole once the fire was established and then about half the secondary air once things were up to temp. That calmed things down a lot, but it would still run toward the upper end of the "normal" temp range. 800* was no unheard of...

 

[larryjbjr]

You have a stack of washers behind the latch. Take one out and move it to the front and the latch will get tighter

Tried. The latch itself is on so tight I could not budge it. I could get a pry bar, but don't want to break anything.

 

[bholler]

Tried. The latch itself is on so tight I could not budge it. I could get a pry bar, but don't want to break anything.

Grab it with pliers and wiggle it back and forth a little bit has to come off

 

[larryjbjr]

Ok, I may have found the problem. Under the firebox is a pan to catch ashes. When I move a smoking tissue around the front the smoke gets sucked into that tray. Wonder how I could seal that up....

 

[brenndatomu]

Seal the ash plug up better then...didn't realize that model had one...I hate those things...nothing but trouble IMO

 

[larryjbjr]

Seal the ash plug up better then...didn't realize that model had one...I hate those things...nothing but trouble IMO

I hear you. Total waste of space too. Tried using the one on my Englander. Ended up just scooping the ashes out, was easier.

 

[brenndatomu]

I hear you. Total waste of space too. Tried using the one on my Englander. Ended up just scooping the ashes out, was easier.

Totally agree. I'd just seal that plug up with some furnace cement.
Or cut the handle off and let it get buried in ashes...it'll seal up.

 

[larryjbjr]

Totally agree. I'd just seal that plug up with some furnace cement.
Or cut the handle off and let it get buried in ashes...it'll seal up.

I pulled the plug and found that the rope gasket is just sitting in there only attached at one point so kinda floppy. Cleaned it a bit and put it back in. I'll test it later, gotta go hunting now.

If it still leaks, I'll try sealing it up.

 

[begreen]

So, by the hinges I could not move the dollar bill no matter how hard I pulled. However, as I got closer to the latch I found that it was not loose but I could pull it out without much effort. Don't have any incense, but a smoking kleenex moved around the door it seemed that some smoke was pulled into the stove by the latch area, but not much.

The latch is a bit wobbly when door is open so I will try to tighten it.

That's probably ok. Put in the key damper. It's ok to be close to the stove if the draft is strong. The other thing you might do is look underneath the stove and see how the air is regulated. The other thing to look for under there is if there is boost air being fed to the base of the fire in front. If so, look for the unregulated port that supplies that air and block it off with a strong magnet for testing.

 

[larryjbjr]

So, today I started my first fire since this conversation. I got fire going with some kindling, then added 3 medium size splits of cottonwood. Once those were burning good I added 3 more of the same and closed the door and the secondary air as well. After about 5-7 minutes I checked it and the fire was raging with stove top temps over 750 and flue around 375. I closed the primary air and the key damper but still could not get fire to die down even a bit. So, I stuffed a towel in the air hole on the back of the stove and put a box fan on a chair blowing across the stove top. The fire just kept going strong until it finally ate up all the wood.

What am I doing wrong here? Even with the key damper closed I could not control this thing. I'm about ready to call Vogelzang and tell them to come get their stove and give me a refund.

Wonder if Menards will take it back without charging me a restocking fee......

 

[bholler]

So, today I started my first fire since this conversation. I got fire going with some kindling, then added 3 medium size splits of cottonwood. Once those were burning good I added 3 more of the same and closed the door and the secondary air as well. After about 5-7 minutes I checked it and the fire was raging with stove top temps over 750 and flue around 375. I closed the primary air and the key damper but still could not get fire to die down even a bit. So, I stuffed a towel in the air hole on the back of the stove and put a box fan on a chair blowing across the stove top. The fire just kept going strong until it finally ate up all the wood.

What am I doing wrong here? Even with the key damper closed I could not control this thing. I'm about ready to call Vogelzang and tell them to come get their stove and give me a refund.

Wonder if Menards will take it back without charging me a restocking fee......

What wood are you loading on how hot of a fire? Why are you letting it get that hot before you shut it back? What temps did you see after shutting back?


I really doubt calling us stove company will get you anywhere at all but you can try

 

[larryjbjr]

What wood are you loading on how hot of a fire? Why are you letting it get that hot before you shut it back? What temps did you see after shutting back?

cottonwood. I know, it burns hot and fast. I was experimenting with it so I'll know next time to not load so much of it. But, why can I not kill this fire? Or, is my experience normal?

I closed everything nearly completely down except the key damper and got distracted with something and when I came back it was raging.

After I shut everything including the key damper the fire was still raging and temps stayed over 700 for about 15 more minutes.

It's like nothing would stop this fire. I understand a hotter fire pulls more draft, but even closing the key damper did nothing. Now, I can say that they key damper is a Menards one and even closed the damper is not tight up against the inside of the pipe so it's going to allow some draft around it. Is that normal?