Vogelzang Ponderosa

[diyrye]

Here is a pic with a fresh reload of the stove, both handles completely closed. And its at 300 pipe temp already with blower at max

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...610-00000119AD470934.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Do you have good draft at this stoves location? I NEVER have smoke spillage unless I'm blowing on some pieces in the morning that I just threw on some old coals left over from previous night.

 

[Huntindog1]

I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.

Lip Lifter,

Can you post a picture of the top, thats pretty amazing that you warped a "step" top type of stove. 3/16" inch steel top that has the step bend would take some high heat to warp.

I have had my stove that has the same step top up to around 1000 deg F glowing slightly and no warpage.

I think everyone will be wanting to see that pic.

 

[liplifter]

I would if it was easier and it woulnt take that high of heat depending on how it was tacked and welded together. it could have been from factory and never noticed.psoting is too out of my range not joining photo bucked to do that

 

[Huntindog1]

Liptlifter, Dont know who you are but these stoves are UL approved and EPA certified, the were tested in Omni test labs a very well respected lab in the industry. You dont pass those tests by being tacked together. The tops dont get warped only getting your stove up to 400 degrees.

I have the next size down Vogelzang , The Performer Model, its very well made stove and I have compared it to other stoves.

I dont say much about Vogelzang on here but Vogelzang takes a lot of flack based on the old fashioned stove thats still made by them meant to be a cheap old fashioned type stove that was used years ago. You get people trying to compare it a $100 stove to $3000 stoves.

Most people on here have been around the barn a few times and your gonna have to show us a pic before we believe you warped a 3/16" step top type stove only getting the temp to around 400 deg.

Posting pics are very easy. You can copy and paste ones that are small file size and you can upload larger ones from your computer.

Lastly warping the top has nothing to do with the seams and welds. You never said it was coming apart at the welds or seams.

 

[diyrye]

here is the dip in the middle of mine, dont know if it was like that before i got it too hot or not. I never looked across the top before to notice. only about 1/8" if that. it would have to stay glowing orange for quite some time to dip a lot or im sure if that cast iron chicken was on it while glowing that would help bend it down.

 

[Huntindog1]

Thanks for the pic, looks like there is something there on the left side of center, but if you got it too hot your pretty lucky. You at least know you got it too hot.

 

[begreen]

I would if it was easier and it woulnt take that high of heat depending on how it was tacked and welded together. it could have been from factory and never noticed.psoting is too out of my range not joining photo bucked to do that

Here's a guide on picture posting. Let me know if you need help.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/putting-images-into-your-forums-posts.87212/

 

[liplifter]

I am a certified welder and fabricator so obviously you dont know what your thlaking about if something is not properly tacked clamped and weldewd in the right sequence it WILL warp no matter if it's 3/16 0r 7/16 and UL rating has nothing to do with quality control in a chinese factory.

 

[Huntindog1]

I have a ponderosa installed 2 weeks ago and the top already has a heat sink in it.Really disappointed.Where do they get the advertised 14 hr burn times ?packed to the gills with osage or ash no longer than 6 and thats on "slow burn".no reply from mfg. yet

Well hopefully they will honor their warranty if its like you say.

If your packing it full to the gills of Osage Orange like you said that would be a good case for over heat. Packing these type stoves will lead to over heat with high btu wood and Osage Orange is one of the highest btu wood. Monitoring the stove top temp is a better indicator of how hot the stove is than the stove pipe.

Wood Species Lbs/Cord , M BTU/Cord

Osage Orange 4,728 / 32.9
Hickory, Shagbark 4,327 / 27.7
Eastern Hornbeam 4,267 / 27.3
Beech, American 3,890 / 26.8
Birch, Black 3,890 / 26.8
Locust, Black 3,890 / 26.8
Hickory, Bitternut 3,832 / 26.7
Locust, Honey 3,832 / 26.7
Apple 4,140 / 26.5
Mulberry 3,712 / 25.8
Oak, White 4,012 / 25.7
Maple, Sugar 3,757 / 24
Oak, Red 3,757 / 24
Ash, White 3,689 / 23.6

 

[begreen]

Something else sounds amuck. If the stove can't run all day with a full load of locust, hickory or osage orange it's not a serious stove IMO. As long as it's run as designed the stove should be able to run at 650-700F burning this wood.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.

Wet wood.

 

[Huntindog1]

I dont think it's possible to overheat mine but yes the top is warped and i guess heat sink is the wrong term.I cant get the thrmo on the pipe over 350 and its low on the pipe.I would have to leave the door cracked to get it 400 or higher.

BeGreen,

Your right something sounds a muck , it sounds like wood that has high moisture content. But not being able to get the stove pipe above 350 would not be hot enough to warp the top of the stove. If the stove wasnt getting hot for him and he left the air wide open then later on it heated up with a full load of osage then that may point to why the top is warped. As the wood will eventually dry out even it its slow to start up, then temps in the stove could reach over temp levels once the secondaries fire up.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I dont say much about Vogelzang on here but Vogelzang takes a lot of flack based on the old fashioned stove thats still made by them meant to be a cheap old fashioned type stove that was used years ago. You get people trying to compare it a $100 stove to $3000 stoves.

They get a lot of flack for the EPA exempt stoves that are dangerous. US Stove also has a few stoves like this. And these are not "$100" stoves. They are listed for over $400 on Home Depot:
(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202398322/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=wood+stoves&storeId=10051#.UOR5xeRZV-U)

 

[Huntindog1]

Inflation , dang it hits everything.

He should have bought a NC-30 as you can find those cheaper than the Ponderosa.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Inflation , dang it hits everything.

He should have bought a NC-30 as you can find those cheaper than the Ponderosa.

You can still get a Ponderosa for $999 at Northern Tool. Not a bad deal if the firebox measurements are accurate.

 

[begreen]

BeGreen,

Your right something sounds a muck , it sounds like wood that has high moisture content. But not being able to get the stove pipe above 350 would not be hot enough to warp the top of the stove. If the stove wasnt getting hot for him and he left the air wide open then later on it heated up with a full load of osage then that may point to why the top is warped. As the wood will eventually dry out even it its slow to start up, then temps in the stove could reach over temp levels once the secondaries fire up.

Yes, there is a piece of the puzzle missing here for sure. I loaded up the T6 to the gills with locust this morning. It's been cruising at 600F for hours.

 

[CenterTree]

I'm guessing you mean the top sunk down in? I find with mine if I pack it with wood and even have the air controls both shut it can still overheat rather quickly if you don't keep the blower on. It doesn't seem as air tight as it should be. I'm concerned if I really have it cranking and power goes out I think the stove would be orange in a minute or two without the blower. Mine will keep coals for 12+ hrs especially if I shovel ash onto the top of them if I want to just fire it back up later and house is already warm enough.

I am entertaining the idea of buying this stove. But, if this stove "needs" to have the blower running in order to not overheat, how can this be a viable stove for power outages. (or cottages without electricity)???

I thought I was sold on the NC30, till I saw this at NorthernTool. Maybe the 30 is better???

 

[Huntindog1]

All these tube type stoves can over heat if the conditions are right.

Warranty is better on the NC-30.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I thought I was sold on the NC30, till I saw this at NorthernTool. Maybe the 30 is better???

They are both big steel stoves. For the most part, they will both heat about the same size area and provide about the same burn times. Between the two, it comes down to which you like the look of better and how much you are willing to pay. You can get the 30 for $650-900, the Ponderosa is $999-1300.

If you screw up, you can make any stove burn too hot. A fan is not required on either stove.

 

[diyrye]

Centertree: I should say it doesn't "need" to have blower running but it is much easier to overheat without it running. If you want it to put out anywhere close to the amount of btu's it's rated for, you're going to need to run the blower if youre tryin to heat a large area. Mine, if I load it full of smaller split wood and with the air intakes both closed, it will almost definetally get too hot. An infrared thermo would be nice I suppose get a more accurate reading on stove top as well as pipe temp.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Centertree: I should say it doesn't "need" to have blower running but it is much easier to overheat without it running. If you want it to put out anywhere close to the amount of btu's it's rated for, you're going to need to run the blower if youre tryin to heat a large area. Mine, if I load it full of smaller split wood and with the air intakes both closed, it will almost definetally get too hot. An infrared thermo would be nice I suppose get a more accurate reading on stove top as well as pipe temp.

What is your definition of "too hot?"

Because I have not seen or used a stove yet that required a blower to keep it under control.

 

[Huntindog1]

I think one thing that needs to be pointed out that never leave the stove air wide open and leave the house as most times the less than quality wood will eventually evaporate the moisture and the stove will then start burning at a higher rate while you are gone and could over heat especially on a big full load packed in there. I can see people thinking , I will leave the air wide open as they dont want the stove to burn out. I have left the house several times with the stove barely burning as I went a head and turned down the air. When I get back home the glass is clean and the wood is burnt so it eventually did get going while I was gone.

One person mentioned they use a small screw that they dropped in the groove of the bimetallic stove top thermometer as the stove heats up the small light weight screw is moved around the dial and then is left at the highest reading of the stove top heat. So you know how hot it got.

 

[diyrye]

Too hot I guess I would say is flue temp over 600. I usualy run mine with the thermometer out if the redone which starts at 5-550 I think off the top of my head?

If I have both air controls completely closed, door closed and turn the blower off with a fresh loaded of wood it will easily go over 600 degree flue temp. Perhaps my thermometer is off? I think in my hurry to cool the stove off ( when i overheated it) my flue temp was around 800 when the top was glowing. But I could be wrong because I was kinda freaking out at the moment.

 

[Huntindog1]

I would lay that thermo on the stove top , that is a better way to know how to control the stove.

800 deg flue pipe temp and stove top glowing your could have been over 1000 degrees stove top temp. That will warp a stove top especially if your reaching close to 1200 deg which you could have been.

Start turning the air down in 1/4 ways increments when the stove top is 400 degrees. Wait about 4 or 5 minutes and see how its burning and turn it down another 1/4 ways etc.... If its heating up really quick and you loaded on a big bed of coals you know that you can turn it down a little quicker.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Too hot I guess I would say is flue temp over 600. I usualy run mine with the thermometer out if the redone which starts at 5-550 I think off the top of my head?

If I have both air controls completely closed, door closed and turn the blower off with a fresh loaded of wood it will easily go over 600 degree flue temp. Perhaps my thermometer is off? I think in my hurry to cool the stove off ( when i overheated it) my flue temp was around 800 when the top was glowing. But I could be wrong because I was kinda freaking out at the moment.

Are you saying the surface temperature of the pipe is over 600?