Water pipe froze and burst today

[wahoowad]

We got down to zero last night and stayed below freezing all day. Around 1 PM I was taking a shower in my downstairs bathroom and heard a muffled bang. By the time I could grab a towel to investigate I could hear water falling from the ceiling inmy living room. Sure enough I had a pretty heavy flow coming out around a heating duct vent in the ceiling. Whew, this was gonna be a new experience for me.

I shut off the water using a valve inside my house. It took a dozen towels to mop up the water - they are all outside frozen now. Limited floor damage that I can see. No carpet got wet, just a parquet wood floor that I actually hope needs to get replaced. I've always disliked it and would prefer to have my insurance replace it with regular wood flooring. Not sure if it is damaged.

I'm waiting for the plumber to come by. Apparently there have been a lot of emergency calls this Saturday due to the cold. Water is shut off, I hope he comes by soon so he can at least stop the leak at the failure point and I get my water back on. Am sure my dining room ceiling will need to be repaired as I see the seems coming loose. Anything advice to handle the situation in terms of making a homewoners claim, getting the job done right, etc? The house is 1987 vintage and I'm surprised this happened.

 

[Dix]

I have one, too...hot water to the main part of the house, near the kitchen (basement window). Waiting on a call back for the cavalry.

See what the plumber says as far as damage goes. If you have a $500 deductible, and the entire repair job is near that, it's not even worth it to call the insurance company (IMHO). Your rates will go up, atleast mine did a few years ago with a gutter backing up under the eaves and sending a waterfall inside my house.

Good luck

 

[wahoowad]

I can only assume it will exceed that. Then again maybe my fear of plumbing issues is making it worse than what it is in my head. I can tell I need sheetrock work as my dining room sheetrock has damage at the tape seems. It looks like a couple trips at least from a sheetrock/painter to fix it and finish it. The plumbing repair is probably going to the easiest - at least I hope so. I want my water back on!

Kinda worried that whatever caused it could allow it to happen again. Cold weather is not that foreign to where I live. I've seen zero degrre temps here before, certainly below freezing for extended number of days. And that parquet wood floor - wondering what all that water that soaked into it is going to treat it. I do believe it is just glued directly to concrete, and I heard it is glued down very well from neighbors who have tried to remove the same flooring.

 

[Dix]

Is there a shut off near that broken pipe, so you could turn off the leak, and resume water to some other portions of the house?

I have no hot water to the main house, but hot in the apartment, and cold water every where, through pipes, that is

 

[wahoowad]

hey, I'm fixed! $450 though. Seems steep but he had some kind of price sheet with fixed prices for all the different stuff he did. I feel like I've been fleeced a bit but admit I am not familiar with plumbing rates. I still have to find a drywall guy to come in soon to fix the big hole and paint.

 

[seige101]

What did he all do/replace? Probably a higher rate for weekend/emergency service call. But post back with what he did and how long he was there, i can have my plumber friend give an estimate too.

Also going through the same thing at my late aunts house friday night. The coupling in the circulator pump motor to the impeller failed, so the boiler water wouldn't circulate. A cast iron baseboard froze and cracked in the middle. Fortunately the rest of the system froze so only a gallon of nasty brackish water ruined the living room carpet. We fixed that by capping off each end and started to defrost the system, found a brass t has split at the seam, shut the system down drain it, repair, re-fire bleed all the air. Things are starting to warm up and radiators are defrosting another leak was discovered on the second floor a while later. While i was out grabbing a pizza they found that leak. I walked in to water pouring out of a dining room light fixture. Shut down the system, drain repair (re-sweat a coupling) fill system, bleed air, fire it up. Wait a lil bit, bleed more air. Waited a long time for the last baseboard in the living room to completely thaw. Around midnight i went home, and my dad left an hour later. Uncle stayed the night to make sure nothing else happened. We are all gonna spend 1 night a week until the weather warms up a little bit.

So in conclusion i feel your pain!

 

[wahoowad]

We get some cold weather here in Virginia but nothing compared to what you folks get (and especially are having lately) further North. I guess things like this happen a lot up there.


As far as my bill, he:

- made an emergency call on a weekend;
- spent a few minutes reviewing my plumbing situation an attempting to isolate where the pipe likey burst;
- sat down at my invitation to have dinner as I knew he had been running hard all day and it was 6 PM and our job was just starting
- cut one hole in the ceiling to access the pipe;
- cut out the burst pipe section and soldered in replacement pipe;
- turned water back on, verified all plumbing working and no leaks;
- cleaned up his mess;
- he was here going on 3 hours

 

[dave11]

The bill sounds a bit steep to me, if part of the three hours was him eating dinner at your expense. Not sure why it took him quite that long to replace one pipe section. Was there something else complicating the matter?

I'm sure you'd rather not see him again. What is the situation with the pipes in your attic crawlspace? Is there any insulation around them at all?

 

[hilly]

How much of the bill was the Sunday emergency call out charge? It kind of makes sense to me that they have to have a fairly high emergency charge to discourage people from calling them out at all hours for something that can wait until the work week.

If I was the plumber I would have knocked some off for the meal!

I hope it works out well for you.

 

[Jambruins]

Forget the copper pipe and soldering, use pex and watts connections or sharkbites. You could cut the busted pipe out put a watts connection or sharkbite on the two ends in the ceiling and then install a piece of pex between the two watts connections/sharkbites. Done in 15 minutes.

 

[velvetfoot]

The last time I tried sweating pipe wasn't too pretty.
I think I needed a hotter torch with the lead free solder.

 

[Jambruins]

velvefoot, usually when I sweat a pipe it ends up leaking too. That is why I use pex and the quick connect fittings I mentioned in the post above yours. I just did a fix at my house and I bought two of the Watts quick connect fittings (around $5 each) and had the pipe fixed in 15 minutes. Pex and quick connect fittings are the way to go.

 

[velvetfoot]

Last time I tried it was bone dry.
I've sweat pipe many years ago and it was easy as pie.
The lead free stuff is the problem.
I've got a mapp torch but haven't tried it yet.

 

[Gooserider]

We get some cold weather here in Virginia but nothing compared to what you folks get (and especially are having lately) further North. I guess things like this happen a lot up there. <snip>

Actually you'd be surprised, pipe freezing is a fairly rare problem here in the frozen north, except in those cases where there are extended power outages... Almost every time I've had a pipe freeze, it's been while I was living down south...

The reason is pretty simple if you think about it - we KNOW that it will get cold / freeze up here, so we (and the codes) are careful to design our plumbing systems to deal with it - for instance running all the water pipes inside the heated space, NOT up the outside wall (like I had at an apartment when I lived in Baton Rouge, LA many years ago) I suspect that a plumber in New England that ran a pipe through an attic space would soon be seeking another job, but more southern plumbers push what they can get away with a lot more...

That said, sounds like you're all set this time, but I'd agree with the earlier suggestions to use PEX instead of copper - in addition to easier installation, it is supposedly less prone to freezing, though it isn't officially rated for it. I'd also consider trying to install some heat tape along the pipes in the attic, the sort with automatic switching sensors.

Gooserider

 

[pastera]

The last time I tried sweating pipe wasn't too pretty.
I think I needed a hotter torch with the lead free solder.

The lead free solder does not whet as well - the joint needs to be spotless, also use tinning flux.

Aaron

 

[Jambruins]

I have never heard that pex if less prone to freezing but I have heard that pex can expand to 4 times its size so it less likely to bust if it does freeze.

 

[Gooserider]

I have never heard that pex if less prone to freezing but I have heard that pex can expand to 4 times its size so it less likely to bust if it does freeze.

More or less what I've heard as well, and what I meant in my earlier post - A few claim it's less likely to freeze because it's not as good a thermal conductor as copper, so it stays warm longer, but I suspect that's a minor effect. More important is it's ability to swell as opposed to burst...

Gooserider

 

[velvetfoot]

Tinning flux?
I think I got flux made for the lead free solder, is that the same stuff?

 

[Gooserider]

Tinning flux?
I think I got flux made for the lead free solder, is that the same stuff?

Probably - at least the stuff that I've used was marked as being good for both lead free and regular solder... Important note though is that it is for plumbing ONLY - don't use it on electrical / electronics stuff - it's a mild corrosive and wiring isn't heavy enough to stand up to it.

Gooserider

 

[velvetfoot]

Well, to close this loop...such as it is.
I had to share the good news.
After my last experience I was very gun shy about sweating with the lead free stuff.
I just now successfully used that new self lighting torch, a Bernzomatic TS8000 from HD, and an Oatey Safe Flo silver lead free plumbing soldering kit also from HD.
It was easy as pie! I think I might have used either the wrong solder or flux or whatever.
The flux that came with the kit was indeed a tinning flux, the No. 95 from Oatey.
The back of the kit package said that it was as easy as soldering with the stuff containing lead, and it was right!
It said the melting temperature range is 420-460F.
I first used the MAPP and the Propane, and on the 3/4" fittings I used it seemed to be a wash.
That auto light torch is also great. So much better than messing with the lighter.i
The sky's the limit!

 

[tutu_sue]

Thank you very much for the update on the lead free stuff. Will be installing a new boiler soon and will let hubby know the flux to get. He had some trouble with the lead free and I think it was the flux he was using.