Weird ash on rug - Mt Vernon AE?

[jlar]

Hello,

I have a strange issue that i believe started maybe last year but maybe earlier. I have a the Mt Vernon AE and it is fairly old (close to 18 years or so, I think). I recently cleaned it and got it ready for this year use. The stove started up and ran fine. A while later I walked into the room and noticed a black "spot" on the rug a few feet out from the stove. See attached pics. It is very light, very black ashy, and fails apart at the touch leaving your fingers sooty. It reminds me of the texture of dryer lint.

I have had this happen a couple times already this year and noticed it a few times last year. I believe that the only place it could be coming from is out the top inside air vent ... the vents that provide the heat to the room. I am just confused as to what it could be and concerned if there is some safety issue. I do clean the blower "squirrel cage" but it gets dirty again pretty quick. The stuff on the cage is similar in texture. I don't clean anything after the blower as I don't really have much access to it and it was never suggested that it was needed. Could it get hot enough to char something?

Anybody seen this before? Any thoughts are appreciated.

Jim

 

[Whitenuckler]

Hello,

I have a strange issue that i believe started maybe last year but maybe earlier. I have a the Mt Vernon AE and it is fairly old (close to 18 years or so, I think). I recently cleaned it and got it ready for this year use. The stove started up and ran fine. A while later I walked into the room and noticed a black "spot" on the rug a few feet out from the stove. See attached pics. It is very light, very black ashy, and fails apart at the touch leaving your fingers sooty. It reminds me of the texture of dryer lint.

I have had this happen a couple times already this year and noticed it a few times last year. I believe that the only place it could be coming from is out the top inside air vent ... the vents that provide the heat to the room. I am just confused as to what it could be and concerned if there is some safety issue. I do clean the blower "squirrel cage" but it gets dirty again pretty quick. The stuff on the cage is similar in texture. I don't clean anything after the blower as I don't really have much access to it and it was never suggested that it was needed. Could it get hot enough to char something?

Anybody seen this before? Any thoughts are appreciated.

Jim

That could indicate a leak and do a full internal inspection. It might be time to replace it.

 

[johneh]

That could indicate a leak and do a full internal inspection. It might be time to replace it.

Whitenuckler, I agree it needs a full inspection. The thing that might bother me is that there is no complaint of smoke heavey during start up but also a faint smell when running. Also, the amount of ash seems more than a little through a small hole. It is also black, suggesting incomplete combustion. My feeling is the heat exchanger tubes may have a light coating of dust, lint, and hair clinging to the exchanger tubes. Especially because of the stove's age. Jlar also says the cage gets dirty very quickly. I think I would first try high-pressure air (compressor) blown into the exchanger tubes and see just how much crap blows out. Just a thought

 

[silverfox103]

Are you missing a cat?

Tom

 

[silverfox103]

Not familiar with the Mt Vernon AE but I would guess that something is not getting cleaned that should be.

That seems like a lot of ash, there's got to be a trail or clues, that should be obvious.

I would shut it down and tear it apart. There's got to be a gasket worn, crack someplace or something not put back correctly.

Is your stove an insert? Chimney clear and clean? Vent pipe clean? Door gasket?

I would not hesitate to call the factory or the local dealer, it would be worth the service call.

When all is said and done, it will end up being an easy solution; but you have to hunt it down first.

Good Luck

Tom

 

[jlar]

Thanks for the replies! I haven't dug into it yet but a couple things: I do occasionally get a smokey smell on startup that is pretty noticeable. Been like that for years. I have tried to find the source using things like flashlight and dark room but never found anything. Had a friend who sold and installed stoves come out once and he never found anything specific either. It does not always do it but it is pretty strong when it does. For reference, this is a standalone stove, not an insert, with a direct out the wall straight pipe, no vertical rise. Stove was just cleaned a few weeks ago (except for the squirrel cage) and it has only been run a few times this year.

Also .... tonight I shined my flashlight in the opening where the warm air comes out the top into the room (sorry for not having all correct terminology). I see coatings of dust both in gray (like what is caked on the squirrel cage convection motor) and in black (like that which has hit the rug). As stated before, I have never cleaned anything except the motor for this part of the system. The cage itself is caked up as usual because it is such a pain to clean. I don't see anything sooty in the area behind the two side panels. Dusty, yes, but not black/sooty. Would I see anything if I snaked an inspection camera down to the convection motor? Happy to blow air as a test if you can explain the best method to try it.

I am not opposed to having a pro come out and look. I am just wondering if it really is just something that needs a good cleaning.

And I have no pets to lose ....

Jim

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thanks for the replies! I haven't dug into it yet but a couple things: I do occasionally get a smokey smell on startup that is pretty noticeable. Been like that for years. I have tried to find the source using things like flashlight and dark room but never found anything. Had a friend who sold and installed stoves come out once and he never found anything specific either. It does not always do it but it is pretty strong when it does. For reference, this is a standalone stove, not an insert, with a direct out the wall straight pipe, no vertical rise. Stove was just cleaned a few weeks ago (except for the squirrel cage) and it has only been run a few times this year.

Also .... tonight I shined my flashlight in the opening where the warm air comes out the top into the room (sorry for not having all correct terminology). I see coatings of dust both in gray (like what is caked on the squirrel cage convection motor) and in black (like that which has hit the rug). As stated before, I have never cleaned anything except the motor for this part of the system. The cage itself is caked up as usual because it is such a pain to clean. I don't see anything sooty in the area behind the two side panels. Dusty, yes, but not black/sooty. Would I see anything if I snaked an inspection camera down to the convection motor? Happy to blow air as a test if you can explain the best method to try it.

I am not opposed to having a pro come out and look. I am just wondering if it really is just something that needs a good cleaning.

And I have no pets to lose ....

Jim

If you have, or can borrow an inspection camera and look at the heat exchange tubes that would be a good start. Because the stove interior draws a vacuum, the ash should not be coming out. The room fan blows through the exchange tubes, so if there were a bad weld or crack in them that could explain it. In your picture, is that an ash deposit on the floor in front of the stove?

 

[jlar]

I do have a cheap inspection camera that works pretty well. I will run it down through the vent at the top tomorrow. I assume that would be my best access to them? I can remove the convection motor and run that direction but the access is tougher as the stove is in a corner. Very cramped access.

As for the picture of the ash. Yes, I picked it up a couple feet in front of the stove on the rug. Again, it is like char cloth or black dryer lint and it was 1/2" in size or so ... size of a nickel maybe. It doesn't resemble anything that I have ever cleaned out of the inside of the stove, either in the firepot or in the baffles behind the mill. It is "hairy" ... like blackened dryer lint (you can see it in the zoomed pic). I will snap a pic of the squirrel cage too.

Hopefully I will have some more images tomorrow. Ran out of time today

Jim

 

[Whitenuckler]

I do have a cheap inspection camera that works pretty well. I will run it down through the vent at the top tomorrow. I assume that would be my best access to them? I can remove the convection motor and run that direction but the access is tougher as the stove is in a corner. Very cramped access.

As for the picture of the ash. Yes, I picked it up a couple feet in front of the stove on the rug. Again, it is like char cloth or black dryer lint and it was 1/2" in size or so ... size of a nickel maybe. It doesn't resemble anything that I have ever cleaned out of the inside of the stove, either in the firepot or in the baffles behind the mill. It is "hairy" ... like blackened dryer lint (you can see it in the zoomed pic). I will snap a pic of the squirrel cage too.

Hopefully I will have some more images tomorrow. Ran out of time today

Jim

If you can identify what it is, then that would help. Only ash could possibly be coming out. The stove will suck room air and blow it threw the heat exchangers. Is it possible the room blower is picking up ash dust or blowing paint residue out the front?

 

[johneh]

If you can identify what it is, then that would help. Only ash could possibly be coming out. The stove will suck room air and blow it threw the heat exchangers. Is it possible the room blower is picking up ash dust or blowing paint residue out the front?

Or if it is lint-type material and the heat exchanger reaches 320. Then that material will flash over, giving the appearance of ash .
This ash will then be discharged from the heat outlet of the stove

 

[zrock]

You say you cleaned your stove but did you clean the chimney pipes and check the fresh air intake if you have one. To me that looks like something is blocked and the startup cannot push things out fast enough

 

[jlar]

Ok .. first to answer the extra questions: I did clean my chimney pipes (it is only a 3 foot straight pipe through the wall) and don't have an air intake. I did run a camera down the room exhaust at the top today and found that it is pretty filthy. Maybe I did lose a cat ... neighbors cat maybe. Are YOU missing a cat Tom? Hard to get good pictures but I think it is clear that it needs a good cleaning. They aren't so much heat exchanger "tubes" but maybe more of a large chamber with "fingers" like on the inside. You can see them in the first pics. I tend to agree that maybe it is getting hot enough to char up the lint balls that are stuck in there.

I won't be able to get to it until next week but I will pull the convection motor and use a combo brush, air compressor, and vacuum to clean all this up. Then I will try to take a good look at all the joints, etc. to see if anything looks cracked or worn out. I am concerned a bit on the smokey start up smells but maybe I can do a better job searching for those as well afterwards. The only seal that has ever been replaced is the one on the combustion motor (replaced with a rubber style).

I will follow up with comments afterwards if any of you are interested. Thanks to all for the help provided

Jim

 

[Whitenuckler]

Ok .. first to answer the extra questions: I did clean my chimney pipes (it is only a 3 foot straight pipe through the wall) and don't have an air intake. I did run a camera down the room exhaust at the top today and found that it is pretty filthy. Maybe I did lose a cat ... neighbors cat maybe. Are YOU missing a cat Tom? Hard to get good pictures but I think it is clear that it needs a good cleaning. They aren't so much heat exchanger "tubes" but maybe more of a large chamber with "fingers" like on the inside. You can see them in the first pics. I tend to agree that maybe it is getting hot enough to char up the lint balls that are stuck in there.

I won't be able to get to it until next week but I will pull the convection motor and use a combo brush, air compressor, and vacuum to clean all this up. Then I will try to take a good look at all the joints, etc. to see if anything looks cracked or worn out. I am concerned a bit on the smokey start up smells but maybe I can do a better job searching for those as well afterwards. The only seal that has ever been replaced is the one on the combustion motor (replaced with a rubber style).

I will follow up with comments afterwards if any of you are interested. Thanks to all for the help provided

Jim

I think that is one of the benefits to OAK kits. You draw in clean fresh air instead of the possibly "dirty" air in back of the stove. I don't have pets myself, but my stove is in a corner and that would be a natural place for stuff to collect. I cleaned my pipe yesterday and it's not easy. Mine is a basement install with a clean out inside and out and probably 20ft of piping. Luckily for me it is always just a nice dry dust that comes out except right at the exhaust nozzle. That make a big mess behind the stove but I just vacuum it up with the "Ash Vac". Next is to clean the stove. I try to keep the area in back near the distribution blower clean.

 

[zrock]

Yes definitely looks like its sucking in the cat.. another benefit to the OAK is your drawing in cold air from outside instead of trying to draw air from inside the house that is forcing it to pull through every crack and air leak your home has. During the winter i can noticed the difference in pulling the cold air from outside and the colder it is the hotter the fire is burning to a certain point.

Umm may want to rethink about using a air compressor on a stove that has ash hiding everywhere you may end up with a big mess in your home..LOL... i went and got one of those computer cleaning kits that attach to your vacuum and put a long section of clear hose on the end and it gets everywhere and works quite well. Also found a bottle brush or something like that with a really long handle..

 

[jlar]

Yep, agree on not making more of a mess. I have a pvc fitting that I attached a length of garden hose to years ago. It fits over the end of my shop vac hose and I can feed it up through the combustion/exhaust pipe and also down behind the baffle inside. Works really well, so I will rig up something like that. Also have a long handled brush with a flexible wire handle so you can bend it to shape. I will feed both through the top and up though the opening where the motor sits. Project for this week.

I will look into the OAK options. Sounds like a great idea. Might even clean the house once in a while ....