Weird Stove Situation; Suggestions Welcome

[Huckleberry]

I am replacing the Blaze King and am not interested in Blaze King information.

Greetings fellow wood-burners!

We currently have an older Blaze King Princess with 8" flue.
It is installed on an elevated stone hearth.
Has an 8" single-wall pipe rising 16" to a 90 degree bend,
then about 16" back through the wall where it enters a
8" to 6" reducer (I'm aware of how wrong that is),
and then runs out into a 7"-square brick chimney.
The hearth and chimney situation are tentatively not going to change.

As you likely know, the BK must be run with the bypass open until
it reaches combustion temp, and then you throw the lever down.
With that bypass open, flames pretty much jet straight out the top
of the stove, and cause our pipe and chimney to catch on fire,
so we always run it with the bypass closed, which isn't that big
of a deal since the catalytic combuster is worn out anyway.

We bought the house with this set-up,
and are now into our third winter here.
I don't like this situation, and am getting ready
to pull the trigger on an Englander 30-NCH.
It will fit on my hearth and even though it's a little taller
than my BK, I think will pipe out of the existing chimney hole,
and I will be able to eliminate that 8" to 6" reducer that I so dislike.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
TIA

 

[ratsrepus]

That probably is a King not a Princess, the 8 inch flu indicates that. A cleaning, new combustor, and coat of stove paint will have that looking in tip top shape. Id take the BK any-day over the Englander. youll get a good 24 hrs vs maybe 8hrs heat with the NC30. Ya the flames shoot up the flu with the bypass open, but you can minimize that by paying attention when firing it up

 

[bholler]

That probably is a King not a Princess, the 8 inch flu indicates that. A cleaning, new combustor, and coat of stove paint will have that looking in tip top shape. Id take the BK any-day over the Englander. youll get a good 24 hrs vs maybe 8hrs heat with the NC30. Ya the flames shoot up the flu with the bypass open, but you can minimize that by paying attention when firing it up

He does not like the bk and wants to replace it.

 

[bholler]

To Moderator:
Please do not move my thread to the Blaze King Thread.
I am replacing the Blaze King and am not interested in Blaze King information.
Thank you.

Greetings fellow wood-burners!

We currently have an older Blaze King Princess with 8" flue.
It is installed on an elevated stone hearth.
Has an 8" single-wall pipe rising 16" to a 90 degree bend,
then about 16" back through the wall where it enters a
8" to 6" reducer (I'm aware of how wrong that is),
and then runs out into a 7"-square brick chimney.
The hearth and chimney situation are tentatively not going to change.

As you likely know, the BK must be run with the bypass open until
it reaches combustion temp, and then you throw the lever down.
With that bypass open, flames pretty much jet straight out the top
of the stove, and cause our pipe and chimney to catch on fire,
so we always run it with the bypass closed, which isn't that big
of a deal since the catalytic combuster is worn out anyway.

We bought the house with this set-up,
and are now into our third winter here.
I don't like this situation, and am getting ready
to pull the trigger on an Englander 30-NCH.
It will fit on my hearth and even though it's a little taller
than my BK, I think will pipe out of the existing chimney hole,
and I will be able to eliminate that 8" to 6" reducer that I so dislike.

Thought and suggestions welcome.
TIA

View attachment 235948

What info are you looking for specifically? Have you had the whole system checked for safety?

 

[Huckleberry]

That probably is a King not a Princess, the 8 inch flu indicates that. A cleaning, new combustor, and coat of stove paint will have that looking in tip top shape. Id take the BK any-day over the Englander. youll get a good 24 hrs vs maybe 8hrs heat with the NC30. Ya the flames shoot up the flu with the bypass open, but you can minimize that by paying attention when firing it up

The dimensions are that of a Princess, so I surmised
from the 8" flue that it was probably an older model.
It's kind of irrelevant since I'm replacing the stove anyway.
The most important part of the equation here is that the chimney
hole going out my wall is 6" in diameter, so I need a stove with a 6" flue.
That's basic code.

 

[Huckleberry]

What info are you looking for specifically? Have you had the whole system checked for safety?

Just wanting general thoughts and suggestions.
I checked the whole system myself for safety
and determined that I need a stove with a 6" flue.

 

[bholler]

Just wanting general thoughts and suggestions.
I checked the whole system myself for safety
and determined that I need a stove with a 6" flue.

View attachment 235949

Ok so how did you check the system? Did you scan the chimney for cracked liners? What is behind that Stone and if it is over a combustible wall do you have enough masonry surrounding that crock?

The Englander is a great stove for the money. But it is a cheap stove and because of that there were some compromises made to keep costs down. And you do not have as much control as you do with many other stoves.

 

[showrguy]

Huckelberry, if you're blaming the design of the BK for "catching your stove and chimney on fire" I think you're gonna have issues whatever brand stove you end up with !! FWIW

 

[bholler]

Huckelberry, if you're blaming the design of the BK for "catching your stove and chimney on fire" I think you're gonna have issues whatever brand stove you end up with !! FWIW

I would have to agree with that.

 

[bholler]

The chimney situation is a whole other problem,
but one I'm not addressing until after winter.
It's brick with 7" square liner, and coated with black glaze.
I'm fully aware of the danger potential here.
Next year I will demo it off and run triple-wall pipe up the outside, then box, insulate,
side, and trim it, but that's serious remodeling that I'm not going to do right now.
At that point I will probably demo out the elevated hearth and build on the floor.
Masonry demo is a very messy endeavor, as anyone who's done it well knows.
Right now I'm just trying to get my flue legal.
Am I making too much of that?
Seems like my insurance company would not approve of this situation.

To me the reduction is much less of an issue than the problems with the chimney.

 

[ratsrepus]

He does not like the bk and wants to replace it.

He also said all comments welcome. Or to be exact, thoughts and suggestions.

 

[ratsrepus]

The dimensions are that of a Princess, so I surmised
from the 8" flue that it was probably an older model.
It's kind of irrelevant since I'm replacing the stove anyway.
The most important part of the equation here is that the chimney
hole going out my wall is 6" in diameter, so I need a stove with a 6" flue.
That's basic code.

didnt know they made a princess with an 8 inch flue.

 

[Huckleberry]

didnt know they made a princess with an 8 inch flue.

I can't get my face behind the stove,
but was able to confirm with a photo.
Apparently they used to be made with an 8" flue.
This stove seems pretty old.

 

[begreen]

Yes, 8", circa 1990.

 

[VirginiaIron]

To Moderator:
Please do not move my thread to the Blaze King Thread.
I am replacing the Blaze King and am not interested in Blaze King information.
Thank you.

Greetings fellow wood-burners!

We currently have an older Blaze King Princess with 8" flue.
It is installed on an elevated stone hearth.
Has an 8" single-wall pipe rising 16" to a 90 degree bend,
then about 16" back through the wall where it enters a
8" to 6" reducer (I'm aware of how wrong that is),
and then runs out into a 7"-square brick chimney.
The hearth and chimney situation are tentatively not going to change.

As you likely know, the BK must be run with the bypass open until
it reaches combustion temp, and then you throw the lever down.
With that bypass open, flames pretty much jet straight out the top
of the stove, and cause our pipe and chimney to catch on fire,
so we always run it with the bypass closed, which isn't that big
of a deal since the catalytic combuster is worn out anyway.

We bought the house with this set-up,
and are now into our third winter here.
I don't like this situation, and am getting ready
to pull the trigger on an Englander 30-NCH.
It will fit on my hearth and even though it's a little taller
than my BK, I think will pipe out of the existing chimney hole,
and I will be able to eliminate that 8" to 6" reducer that I so dislike.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
TIA

View attachment 235948

"...With that bypass open, flames pretty much jet straight out the top
of the stove, and cause our pipe and chimney to catch on fire,..."
I'm not sure your statement is a fair conclusion since your vent and possibly your chimney, is not to specifications.
Along with this design modification, what condition and type or lined/unlined chimney do you have?
What are your cleaning habits?

I don't like that Englander stove but many people think it is a fine stove. Your venting system must be matched to the vent size recommended by the manufacturer AND be in proper working order.

 

[kennyp2339]

I love the NC30, its a nicely built budget stove, but have you checked out PE's and regency's? That's the next step up and I haven't heard of any quality issues with either of those 2 brands. The twin sister to the NC30 is the summers heat 50SNC30 has had some issues the quality, mainly a bowing front end and bad door alignment / mounts.

 

[Huckleberry]

Huckelberry, if you're blaming the design of the BK for "catching your stove and chimney on fire" I think you're gonna have issues whatever brand stove you end up with !! FWIW

No, what I'm blaming is my whole through-the-wall chimney set-up.
I don't think the stove is good for this situation.
Another poster with a similar set-up had a fire in his chimney,
and his 90 degree bend is farther up the pipe than mine.
I'm thinking that these stoves should be piped
straight up and out, which is not an option for me.
I'm getting rid of it ASAP.

 

[bholler]

No, what I'm blaming is my whole through-the-wall chimney set-up.
I don't think the stove is good for this situation.
Another poster with a similar set-up had a fire in his chimney,
and his 90 degree bend is farther up the pipe than mine.
I'm thinking that these stoves should be piped
straight up and out, which is not an option for me.
I'm getting rid of it ASAP.

I am not going to try to talk you out of getting rid of the stove. If you don't like it fine. But it is not a problem with the stove design. Many people use similar stoves with similar setups with no problems. If it was mine I would fix the chimney issues before doing anything. No matter what stove you have you need a safe chimney. Personally I would also replace the cat so the stove can work as designed before replacing it. But that is up to you.

 

[ratsrepus]

I have a similar set up, 4 ft up then through the wall. I paid attention when I added some wood when i got home this afternoon. I let her go on high for 14 or so minutes, closed the bypass let her cook for another 20 minutes and no way did I feel the chimney would catch fire. Now if I opened the door thats another story. I agree with replacing the combustor

 

[jotul8e2]

Asking the experts because I am curious: Isn't venting a six inch flue into a 7X7 chimney going to cause a creosote problem no matter the stove?

 

[begreen]

Asking the experts because I am curious: Isn't venting a six inch flue into a 7X7 chimney going to cause a creosote problem no matter the stove?

28 sq in to 49 sq in so under 2x gain. It's within acceptable bounds and will not necessarily cause a problem, especially if it's an interior chimney

 

[Huckleberry]

Asking the experts because I am curious: Isn't venting a six inch flue into a 7X7 chimney going to cause a creosote problem no matter the stove?

Actually it's an 8" flue choked down to 6" as it enters the wall, then out to the 7"x7".

 

[bholler]

Actually it's an 8" flue choked down to 6" as it enters the wall, then out to the 7"x7".

That is only the crock it is fairly easy to change it out for a larger one. But if you have had multiple fires chances are the clay liners are shot regardless.

 

[Dataman]

I replace my Wood Stove. The Exact same mode. Mine was BK King from 1991. Great Stove. I replaced Catalyst and ran it for 3 years and finally got rid of it this past May. I went with Pellet Stove.

Harmon XXV. Been very happy with not bringing in Wood. I had 10 cords split up and ready to go for this Winter and gave it all away to Wife's Niece. They got my 1 year old Dirty Hand Too. (22T Log Splitter).

I had the old BK glowing when I first moved in. I never had chimney fire (see one so I know what they look like). I use 8" broom with extensions from outside about 6x a year. So no buildup (gotta do something to keep busy).

If I had to do it again I would get Harmon P68

(broken link removed)

50k BTU on old BK King and 50k on Harmon XXV. But I would have gone bigger if I thought about it more. It ended up being $3500 for stove (floor model). Plus install (insurance). They even removed the 435lb BK King to back porch for Wife to move (she be strong lady, uses tractor with forks).

I had some teething troubles, noise. 2 Screws impacting distro fan. Some rattling fixed with RTV.

I purchased 5 tons of Pellets. Will heat with it until March. Might have 1 ton leftover. Next year won't heat with Pellets until Nov (Like I did with Wood, used 3 cords yearly). I have Heat Pump and Elec is .05 Kilowatt.

It's really nice not cleaning stove couple times a week with ash bucket or having smoke enter house because I opened the door too soon. At 60 I was just tired of dealing with wood.

I spent about 6k with battery backup and inverter and pellets.

3500 - stove
1200 - Install
1000 - Pellets
600 - Inverter
100 - Permit

I think it's well worth it.

Harmon XXV

• Dataman
• Sep 17, 2018

Harmon XXV Setup

 

[Hogwildz]

The other issue no one mentioned is, the BK stoves release cooler exhaust gases, which does cause build up faster for obvious reasons.
This may also play a part in your issues. That whole 90 degrees into a cooler oversized existing clay liner is just not optimal.
I'm not necessarily blaming the stove, but it surely does not help the issues. So many set ups, some work great, some work fine, and some just are a PITA. Looks like you inherited the latter.

Keep in mind, If you get build up in that same set up with an NC30, while it is open till up to temp, you may find the same or similar issues arise.

I agree with bholler in that you should def find the cause of the chimney issue, maybe there is none to find, but should definitely be investigated thoroughly.

As far as the parrots continually chiming in about telling you to keep a stove you stated you no longer want, just ignore them. Some asshats just can't take a hint, let alone get a clear message.

Lastly, anyone calling the NC30 anything but a well built inexpensive stove, obviously has never owned one, and just does not get the fact that it is well built stove, although very basic and bland, but never the less a great stove at a great price. Which does not mean any compromises were made, but they can make money without overpricing the stove at the same time.

You might want to consider losing the 90 for 2- 45's if you have the space to do it, and make sure the horizontal section is running slightly uphill to the thimble, which it really doesn't look like the existing does. And that may be another part of you issues as far as any build up to catch on fire.