Welding cast iron?

[Joe Rampey]

I need a little advise. I have an old consolidated dutchwest FA264 catalytic stove. It just started acting up - unable to get it to stay in catalytic burn... I thought it must be the catalytic combuster so I took the top off and found a big crack in the inner top. Right between the bypass damper and the seat for the catalytic combuster. Can a good welder fix this or should I get a new part?

I called VC and a new piece is $300+. It is described as an assembly - they are calling me back today with a full descriptionvof what is included. If it includes the catalyst thats not too bad. but...

this has a great stove and I'd hate to give it up. Oh-it will be 4 to 6 weeks for delivery! Winter will be over!

 

[clemsonfor]

The time frame sounds bad to me

Is the part removeable from the stove, i guess it is, if it is an assembly? Reason i ask is that if you have to get a mobile welder out to your house i can see you easily spending $100-150 and it may not last. So i would buy the new part. But if its removeable and you can get it burned back togeather for say $50 id say go for it.

 

[BobUrban]

It can be welded. Cast is not as easy to weld as mild steel but they make special rods that work well and it should be preheated. If you can take the part out I would call around and ask welders, welding shops. It would be a rather simple task if you delivered it to them. Like a, "while you wait" type thing. If you can get it done cheap enough I think getting back into the game so to speak will save you enough on gas or heating oil to justify even a potential temporary fix until you can get a new part ordered.

 

[6mmbrer]

Cast iron can sometimes be brazed. If the crack isn't too bad, that may be an option. You need to have someone do it that is skilled in brazing though. Unless they've done a bit of gas welding, production welding guys usually aren't that good at it. For 300 bucks it'd be worth a try.

 

[Joe Rampey]

Yes - it is removable. I have the stove in pieces now... I am calling a couple of welding shops this morning to get prices. I too think if I can get it done for $50 itis worth it even if it is temporary.

Guess I'll be off to a welding shop today!

Thanks for the quick replies

 

[Joe Rampey]

Regarding rhe delivery delay... frankly I am tickled that I can get any parts - this stove s 21 years old! I was told the parts are made to order. I'm glad they still want tomake them and have the molds.

 

[ScotO]

I'd never braze cast iron, but as bob said it can be welded. I use stainless welding wire or rods when I weld cast. Grind out the crack, drill a hole on each end of the crack to take the stress out of the surrounding material, preheat the surrounding area, and proceed to fill it in. I think Certanium rods will work but I always used Blue Max rod. High nickel contents make it work well for cast iron.

 

[BobUrban]

Scotty is a much better welder than I - I rely on my buddy the pro to do any technical welds as he would answer this question like Scotty did with rod types and past experience. Also, the drill each end is a great suggestion and I appologize for not mentioning it. Cast is soft so drillling and grinding will be minimal and I imagine, done by an experienced welder, you could get another 20yrs out of it but even if it gets you through a season or two you could stash a few sheckles along the way and order the part without the pain of a big cash outlay. Make sure you ask about their cast welding experience and let them know what you are looking for as a result. Anyone can goop a bunch of snot onto a crack and make it look like it is welded but only a good welder can put it back to servicable use. As long as it is not a deal breaker it would be best to go with a welder that at least sounds like they know what they are doing - even if they are priced a little higher. Keep us posted on the results!!

 

[semipro]

Uneven heating of cast iron is what leads to cracks. This applies to welding repairs also.
Its best if the whole piece can be slowly and uniformly heated up before welding.Then a special nickel rich rod/wire can be used.
It needs to cool slowly also.

Edit: you might consult with local machine shops. They have to deal with cracked cast iron on regular basis.

 

[ddahlgren]

Depending on the size of the part, see if you can take it apart to the smallest possible size, it has to be heated long and slow to get to temperature and then returned to the oven to cool slowly or it will crack at the weld. Thisis not a while you wait thing unless you have all day. As an example I have aluminum assemblies tig welded on occasion for my biz. The shop will preheat to 350 degrees for 2 hours weld and return to the oven to cool slowly for minimum distortion or internal stress.

 

[clemsonfor]

Like has been said here "professional" is the key, not just a shop with a welder. Dont go to the muffler shop and have them weld it. Take these guys advice and ask these questions, or ask the process he will do to it, "cause you heard cast is finiky to weld". See what he says, do this a few times and see which one sounds like the guys here advice. He dont have to go into detail, he could say just clean it up drill ends, heat it then weld and cool slowly, etc.

I mean i have a cheap welder but would not try to weld a cast piece like this. I just burn stuff like my farm equiptment back togeather, welding nuts on stripped bolts, or welding my lawnmower back togeather. I can weld better than some guy who "did it a few times years ago" but i would not do anything like this that i own, just like i dont weld trailer tounges or axles on trailers.

 

[ddahlgren]

Iwould call around before spending a day driving around. You are looking for a large fab shop that has an oven most mom and pos will not. If they do not weld cast iron fairly often pass them by. Another way to narrow it down is call some welding supply shops and ask if they know anyone who weld cast iron. If they are big company that does it often the weld shop guys will know just buy what supplies they are buying. It is usually welded with 307 or309 stainless rod and no one buys that just to have some it costs a fortune. I would not grind it for them let them do the prep work so if there is an issue the issue is theirs and you have not given them an excuse for failure. Do let the shop know how big in size and what the part weighs so they will know if it will fit in their oven and how long the preheat and post weld cool will take and they will charge you for this as well. They can not do the next job while yours is in the oven though some will bury in sand for the cool down too.

Another possibility is referred to cold welding or plug stiching. They drill the ends of the crack and then drill and tap as series of holes one at a time and tap them for a cast iron plug.They drill the next one very close to the last so the plugs interlock tap plug and repeat until they get to the end. This is very time consuming and can get expensive if the crack is long. You might even check with industrial supply houses to see if the sell the taps and plugs in a small quantity. When done with all the plugs they snipped off almost flush the peened.

 

[Jack Fate]

I need a little advise. I have an old consolidated dutchwest FA264 catalytic stove. It just started acting up - unable to get it to stay in catalytic burn... I thought it must be the catalytic combuster so I took the top off and found a big crack in the inner top. Right between the bypass damper and the seat for the catalytic combuster. Can a good welder fix this or should I get a new part?

I called VC and a new piece is $300+. It is described as an assembly - they are calling me back today with a full descriptionvof what is included. If it includes the catalyst thats not too bad. but...

this has a great stove and I'd hate to give it up. Oh-it will be 4 to 6 weeks for delivery! Winter will be over!

The company I work for has had the same problem ( not a wood stove ) & the machine needed to run .They sent part out so a shop a long way away that specialized in welding cast . Long story short part failed second day . Was told by other maint persons this happened before .Ask the best welder later that works for my company his thoughts on welding cast he stated success rate wasn't that good .( this man was a welding god,retired ) so good luck ,I hate these situations, a true catch 22

 

[Joe Rampey]

I found a "friend of a friend" that has his own shop... sounds like he knows what he's doing. He said he'll heat it in an oven to 350 - 400 in a sand bed. Pull out the pan full of sand and plate and weld it stat and return it to the oven... then turn the oven off - allowing it to coast down to room temp over 3 hours. Using a stainless rod.

The part is about 18" X 24" 25 lbs. The crack runs from a rectangular damper opening to a circular opening in which the catalytic combuster sits. about 1.5" long. This has to be the hottest part of the stove. I'll get the part back tomorrow $50!

The welder suggested that I try to warm the stove up slow over the first 5 fires. If it holds then let her rip!

 

[ScotO]

You'll be fine, sounds to me like the guy knows what he's doing. I've always used a torch to heat up the parts I weld, and then do the welding, and after welding, put the torch back on the part and slowly 'wean' the heat off, allowing the part to cool slowly.....

I've welded quite a few cast iron parts in my short life....the two most 'critical' pieces were a swimming pool heater water manifold (that was left full of water over the winter one year and had a major blowout), the other was a pivot bracket for an antique metal brake (the kind that bends some pretty thick sheet steel). To replace that manifold would've been several hundred bucks, so I fixed it and it still works to this very day, no leaks. As for that antique metal brake part, it was obsolete and impossible to find. It's in my neighbor's shop, and is still in service this very day.

Like I said it can be done, but doing it right is the key. Let us know how you make out on your repair...

 

[raybonz]

I owned a FA264CCL for a very long time and I am wondering if you can actually get this part.. I would double check this info if I were you as I am pretty certain they do not make it anymore.. FYI I sold this stove for $350.00 and it was in good shape.. I replaced the CDW with the T5 and like it much more!

Good Luck!
Ray

 

[Joe Rampey]

I owned a FA264CCL for a very long time and I am wondering if you can actually get this part.. I would double check this info if I were you as I am pretty certain they do not make it anymore.. FYI I sold this stove for $350.00 and it was in good shape.. I replaced the CDW with the T5 and like it much more!

Good Luck!
Ray

Got a call back today from VC parts - yep, its been out of production for a loooong time - I bought this stove in 1992!, but, I can get the "assembly"! the $300+ turned into $345 and the assembly includes the inner top, damper plate, gaskets, bolts,and cement... I don't need the damper plate - mine is fine, so I'm going to try the welded plate. Just ordered gaskets, cement, a new handle... don't know where mine went - I've been using an end wrench for years... and a new thermometer. I'm hoping by the time the gaskets and cement gets here I'll have all of the parts cleaned up and ready to reassemble. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Oh! I'm planning on replacing all of the bolts... they look like 1/4 stainless carriage bolts. Am I missing anything?

 

[Joe Rampey]

Oops - correction to above - I'm going to use the welded inner top!

 

[raybonz]

Got a call back today from VC parts - yep, its been out of production for a loooong time - I bought this stove in 1992!, but, I can get the "assembly"! the $300+ turned into $345 and the assembly includes the inner top, damper plate, gaskets, bolts,and cement... I don't need the damper plate - mine is fine, so I'm going to try the welded plate. Just ordered gaskets, cement, a new handle... don't know where mine went - I've been using an end wrench for years... and a new thermometer. I'm hoping by the time the gaskets and cement gets here I'll have all of the parts cleaned up and ready to reassemble. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Oh! I'm planning on replacing all of the bolts... they look like 1/4 stainless carriage bolts. Am I missing anything?

I bought my 264CCl in ~1988 and it came with 3 brass handles and one shaker grate handle along with tthe coal stuff (which I never used), nice wrought iron toolset, ashbin, wood carrier, woodstove gloves and spare parts for $660.00.. Used it 20 years or so and sold it for $350.00 and replaced the gloves last year, still use the wrought iron toolset and lost the log carrier eons ago... Seems like I never stopped learning how to run that stove lol.. Much easier now!

 

[Joe Rampey]

Just an update for everyone... I put the stove back together after getting new gaskets and cement. Been warming it up slowly with 5 small fires. peeked at the welding repair and it seems to be holding.

Well today I fired it up and after warming it up closed the damper and let the catalyst lite off. Wow, it's like the stove was roaring to go... The temps at the catalyst were about 700 and once the catalyst lit they slowly climbed to 1400. It's been there now for 5 hours. I think Ill try to keep this baby going for a few days and see what she'll do.

Thanks everyone for your advise,

 

[lopiliberty]

My old dutchwest cracked and WARPED in the same place. There was no fixing mine. It was so warped when the bypass was closed it was still open about 2 inches. Hopefully the weld will hold but don't be surprised if it starts to warp where it cracked

 

[Joe Rampey]

An update to an old thread... Well, I got two more good years out of my CDW stove. The welding repair from two years ago is still good, but the inner back wall cracked just below the flue outlet last week.

I think it's time to retire this wonderful little stove - at the rate of 3 - 4 cords per year... 1992 to 2015. Wow that's a bunch of wood!

Now to choose a new stove.

 

[fire_man]

Joe

Thanks for updating this thread. Some good info here on welding cast iron and the pitfalls but sounds like it worked out for you.
Good luck finding a new stove - lots of good ones out there.

 

[raybonz]

An update to an old thread... Well, I got two more good years out of my CDW stove. The welding repair from two years ago is still good, but the inner back wall cracked just below the flue outlet last week.

I think it's time to retire this wonderful little stove - at the rate of 3 - 4 cords per year... 1992 to 2015. Wow that's a bunch of wood!

Now to choose a new stove.

I got many years out of my old CDW and I like running the "new" stove much more.. Short learning curve and low maintenance I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much better many new stoves are..