Well, after no burns for a week, now...??

[tiger]

So, had a nice series of nice burns after a full cleaning and the following thread :https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/creosote-greasy-back-there.188852/

So, today cold enough and I fired it up, after under 10 minutes ignited, that's pretty good for me. Ao, now, why, after a about 1/2 hour past ignition, Why are a few pellets during and the rest of the pellets sitting in the burn pot and not burning? What the heck? Was burning great when I shut it down. No idea why I cannot trust the unit to rerun as well "next time" as "last time". Full burn pot, not all pellets in there burning, some flaming pellets in ask tray.

Data point. Again, Hamers pellets, alway had good luck. 49F outside, 71F inside from the household boiler. Only a few hours since last deep cleaning including the fuel, it was doing great before.

Hmm, "feed motor "light goes one and off but I suspect more time "On" than I am used to but that conjecture.

 

[tiger]

Update, a little while later, seems to be burning much better -- but what conditions lead to a full pot, and only one small part of the contents burning and the rest of the pellets sitting there unignited?

 

[Washed-Up]

Are all of the holes in the bud pot free and clear of carbon, they’re fully open? And have you removed the plate under the burnpot and cleaned out around the igniter? Unplug the stove before you do this.

 

[Mt Bob]

A Harman should light in 4-7 minutes. If it does not,got a dead bird in the flue? Kidding,I know you just leaned it,but the flue and intake have to remain open. If it does not light properly,you can end up with that situation. Other things--weak igniter. Igniter cradle installed wrong(this is very easy to put in wrong,just ask my BIL!). Control board acting up. Have you sprayed out the pots lately? A weak combustion blower. You can try,every time before starting,turn to test mode, after stove starts tests,open door,so auger does not run,and let combustion blower run for 5 minutes or so,to warm it up. Lastly,depending on your serial number,there may be an upgraded burn pot for your stove.

 

[Mt Bob]

This is in addition to what Washed-Up has said.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Does the stove have a manual draft damper like my 6039's have? I get that once in a great while when I get in a hurry and don't put in enough starter pellets and I get a tiny flame as the burn pot fills up and I pull the damper out and off she goes.

Maybe some day I'll get a unit with an ignitor but then, maybe not.

 

[tiger]

A Harman should light in 4-7 minutes. If it does not,got a dead bird in the flue? Kidding,

7 minutes is a good day for this unit, over the years I've owned it. OK, sorry to over-react, and right now it's burning sweet. No idea why a pellet stove should take more man-hours of maintenance that every other device in the house put together. Again, sorry. It's just looking at a tribble of flame on one corner of the burn pot, and the rest of the pot full but not burning, after a recent 6-hour cleaning, just drives me bonkers. 100% certain that in mid-winter, with NG prices through the roof and I sincerely need a decent burn, the stove will laugh at me like the villain in a cheap movie.

Perhaps I should keep a daily logbook, but perhaps 15 hours of burn since the last deep clean including the flue, and a 90-degree pick at every opening in the burn pot's holes., and as rigorous a vacuuming of the under-burn-pot area as I can accomplish without risking damage to the ignitor wires.

Dead bird? I hope it suffered!

 

[SidecarFlip]

I shudder to think what fuel prices will be this winter. Between that and the absence of food at the super, it's gonna be tough I suspect.

All of us are pretty fortunate but there are a whole passel of folks out there who aren't.

 

[Mt Bob]

New igniters are cheap, I would replace it, and it would give you a chance to make sure igniter cradle is in right. As I said,if it does not initially light properly,you can get a big buildup.

 

[Zeus]

So, had a nice series of nice burns after a full cleaning and the following thread :https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/creosote-greasy-back-there.188852/

So, today cold enough and I fired it up, after under 10 minutes ignited, that's pretty good for me. Ao, now, why, after a about 1/2 hour past ignition, Why are a few pellets during and the rest of the pellets sitting in the burn pot and not burning? What the heck? Was burning great when I shut it down. No idea why I cannot trust the unit to rerun as well "next time" as "last time". Full burn pot, not all pellets in there burning, some flaming pellets in ask tray.

Data point. Again, Hamers pellets, alway had good luck. 49F outside, 71F inside from the household boiler. Only a few hours since last deep cleaning including the fuel, it was doing great before.

Hmm, "feed motor "light goes one and off but I suspect more time "On" than I am used to but that conjecture.View attachment 285341

So, had a nice series of nice burns after a full cleaning and the following thread :https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/creosote-greasy-back-there.188852/

So, today cold enough and I fired it up, after under 10 minutes ignited, that's pretty good for me. Ao, now, why, after a about 1/2 hour past ignition, Why are a few pellets during and the rest of the pellets sitting in the burn pot and not burning? What the heck? Was burning great when I shut it down. No idea why I cannot trust the unit to rerun as well "next time" as "last time". Full burn pot, not all pellets in there burning, some flaming pellets in ask tray.

Data point. Again, Hamers pellets, alway had good luck. 49F outside, 71F inside from the household boiler. Only a few hours since last deep cleaning including the fuel, it was doing great before.

Hmm, "feed motor "light goes one and off but I suspect more time "On" than I am used to but that conjecture.View attachment 285341

Hey tiger how old is your combustion motor?

 

[mtnbiker727]

4 to 7 minutes to light? I've never timed it, but I'd say mine lights in about a minute. Quite often it is lit before the pellets stop flowing on the initial pot fill.

 

[Zeus]

Does the stove have a manual draft damper like my 6039's have? I get that once in a great while when I get in a hurry and don't put in enough starter pellets and I get a tiny flame as the burn pot fills up and I pull the damper out and off she goes.

Maybe some day I'll get a unit with an ignitor but then, maybe not.

Hey sidecar I think you might be right, but it looks like his damper is too many pellets in the pot during start up could be a weak igniter,cumbution fan or pellets maybe damp / hard to ignite for some reason.

 

[tiger]

Hey sidecar I think you might be right, but it looks like his damper is too many pellets in the pot during start up could be a weak igniter,cumbution fan or pellets maybe damp / hard to ignite for some reason.

Have you sprayed out the pots lately?

Does the stove have a manual draft damper like my 6039's have?

Well, it burned fine for the rest of the evening.

This AM, I had ignition in 8 minutes*, and it is burning great right now, flames all the way to the top of the interior of the stove. I made no changes, even the same bag of pellets in there. Really perplexing thing about the stove is that its behavior can change, making “diagnosis” difficult; which means — can I rely on it?

To answer questions: I replaced the combustion fan/motor in February 2020, let’s say 1.5 tons ago. The ignitor is original, I’ve avoided messing with the wires and such in that area; it has always been a bit slow to light off, 6 minutes to perhaps 12 and once in a while even longer. Distribution fans auger and auger motor original; I’ve been contemplating picking up an auger & motor just in case. The pellets have been in the basement for perhaps 6 weeks now, I run a dehumidifier down there and the humidity is +/- 50%.

I do not think this model has a manual damper, if there is one please let me know.

I am very curious what “Have you sprayed out the pots lately?” means.

*By the way, usually when I get ignition it’s pretty much all at once in a big whoosh. This AM, it looked like one part ignited first, left side, and the flame spread across the pellets; that said, it happened pretty fast, so this may not be a useful data point.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Hey tiger how old is your combustion motor?

Better yet, what condition is the combustion fan in? On my 6039 USSC, the combustion fan are original (about 20 years) but I've been meticulous in their care and feeding but I did notice the fan is starting to erode away. Probably time for a replacement fan next year if I can get the old one of the shaft that is. I'll probably have to heat the boss on the fan wheel with my gas axe before the set screw will let go or take a die grinder and slit it and remove it but if I ruin the shaft, I'll purchase a new assembly,

I see you can buy replacement fan wheels, just getting the old one off is the issue.

 

[Mt Bob]

Your combustion fan should be fine,then.What year is your stove? Also, the auger rarely goes bad, and, on a Harman,the auger motor usually gets noisy before it dies.But,depending on the installation,the back side components do get hotter than a FS .

 

[SidecarFlip]

Do Augers ever wear out? Mine, at 20 years still looks pristine and it has 'augered' many, many tons of pellets and corn into the burn pot. Not even the auger tube has an visible wear, but then USSC used schedule 60 seamless steel tube for that.

Having said that, I remember somewhere sometime seeing one from a Quadrafire that looked like twisted wire. Mine are a solid steel weldment, flighting welded to a steel shaft that has a tang on the end that engages a drive lug on the auger motor reduction gearbox. Always nice and shiny and no wear visible.

 

[Montecarlossfan]

Well, it burned fine for the rest of the evening.

This AM, I had ignition in 8 minutes*, and it is burning great right now, flames all the way to the top of the interior of the stove. I made no changes, even the same bag of pellets in there. Really perplexing thing about the stove is that its behavior can change, making “diagnosis” difficult; which means — can I rely on it?

To answer questions: I replaced the combustion fan/motor in February 2020, let’s say 1.5 tons ago. The ignitor is original, I’ve avoided messing with the wires and such in that area; it has always been a bit slow to light off, 6 minutes to perhaps 12 and once in a while even longer. Distribution fans auger and auger motor original; I’ve been contemplating picking up an auger & motor just in case. The pellets have been in the basement for perhaps 6 weeks now, I run a dehumidifier down there and the humidity is +/- 50%.

I do not think this model has a manual damper, if there is one please let me know.

I am very curious what “Have you sprayed out the pots lately?” means.

*By the way, usually when I get ignition it’s pretty much all at once in a big whoosh. This AM, it looked like one part ignited first, left side, and the flame spread across the pellets; that said, it happened pretty fast, so this may not be a useful data point.

My 52i ignites from the left side at times to the middle, ignition usually takes anywhere from 2-3 min to 5 min depending on pellet type.

How full is your hopper when it’s going through ignition? I only ask because there is an adjustment using the dip switches for initial feed time which may improve ignition .

No damper on this stove , only draft adjustment is the little white pot that looks like a screw on control panel and that’s the low draft meaning on slow burn etc, most of the time half way to a little more is plenty on that unless you have an extremely long run of exhaust.

I suspect the igniter is caked with buildup if it’s taking that long , do you tap the side of the burnpot with the scraper tool after you clean out the inside, you would be surprised what falls outta there. Also depending on which cradle it’s possible that during cleaning it got bumped as well(I learned this a few times lol).

My 52i is a 2014 build and I only replaced the combustion blower as it was a little noisy, used high temp anti seize so I can take the fan blades off easy for yearly cleanings.

I also replaced burnpot gasket and the igniter last year as well with an aftermarket igniter(I know I know lol) but not the 15 dollar aftermarket , the 35 dollar one which I suspect is oem anyway. The stove still lights off easily.

The auger and motor should last quite a while, my parents are on the original on a circa 2006 accentra insert stove.

How is the flame once it lights off? Vibrant or lazy?

 

[Zeus]

Well, it burned fine for the rest of the evening.

This AM, I had ignition in 8 minutes*, and it is burning great right now, flames all the way to the top of the interior of the stove. I made no changes, even the same bag of pellets in there. Really perplexing thing about the stove is that its behavior can change, making “diagnosis” difficult; which means — can I rely on it?

To answer questions: I replaced the combustion fan/motor in February 2020, let’s say 1.5 tons ago. The ignitor is original, I’ve avoided messing with the wires and such in that area; it has always been a bit slow to light off, 6 minutes to perhaps 12 and once in a while even longer. Distribution fans auger and auger motor original; I’ve been contemplating picking up an auger & motor just in case. The pellets have been in the basement for perhaps 6 weeks now, I run a dehumidifier down there and the humidity is +/- 50%.

I do not think this model has a manual damper, if there is one please let me know.

I am very curious what “Have you sprayed out the pots lately?” means.

*By the way, usually when I get ignition it’s pretty much all at once in a big whoosh. This AM, it looked like one part ignited first, left side, and the flame spread across the pellets; that said, it happened pretty fast, so this may not be a useful data point.

Hey tiger when does this problem happen, during start up or does it happen after the stove has been burning?

 

[tiger]

Hey tiger when does this problem happen, during start up or does it happen after the stove has been burning?

My 52i ignites from the left side at times to the middle, ignition usually takes anywhere from 2-3 min to 5 min depending on pellet type.

How full is your hopper when it’s going through ignition? I only ask because there is an adjustment using the dip switches for initial feed time which may improve ignition .

No damper on this stove , only draft adjustment is the little white pot that looks like a screw on control panel and that’s the low draft meaning on slow burn etc, most of the time half way to a little more is plenty on that unless you have an extremely long run of exhaust.

I suspect the igniter is caked with buildup if it’s taking that long , do you tap the side of the burnpot with the scraper tool after you clean out the inside, you would be surprised what falls outta there. Also depending on which cradle it’s possible that during cleaning it got bumped as well(I learned this a few times lol).

My 52i is a 2014 build and I only replaced the combustion blower as it was a little noisy, used high temp anti seize so I can take the fan blades off easy for yearly cleanings.

I also replaced burnpot gasket and the igniter last year as well with an aftermarket igniter(I know I know lol) but not the 15 dollar aftermarket , the 35 dollar one which I suspect is oem anyway. The stove still lights off easily.

The auger and motor should last quite a while, my parents are on the original on a circa 2006 accentra insert stove.

How is the flame once it lights off? Vibrant or lazy?

Your combustion fan should be fine,then.What year is your stove? Also, the auger rarely goes bad, and, on a Harman,the auger motor usually gets noisy before it dies.But,depending on the installation,the back side components do get hotter than a FS .

Both last night and this AM, once going it burned fine; so I'd call this a startup problem. Again, this stove has seemed to exhibit different symptoms at different times. How old? I thought 2013, but I see in my sig file I bought it 2014 but in February, so I'll guess made in 2013, I wonder it there's a built-on date somewhere on the stove. I've gotten used to the 6-12 minute ignition times, as long as it starts no big deal. 99% of the time when it lights off, it's pretty much all the pellets in the burn pot at once, not starting at one end, that surprised me. Usually at light-off the burn pot is, eh, half full? Obviously the ignitor is getting hot enough to ignite pellets -- but it might be borderline? It has never gotten worse since new; then again, did not get better, either. By the way, thanks everyone for the input!

 

[Zeus]

Both last night and this AM, once going it burned fine; so I'd call this a startup problem. Again, this stove has seemed to exhibit different symptoms at different times. How old? I thought 2013, but I see in my sig file I bought it 2014 but in February, so I'll guess made in 2013, I wonder it there's a built-on date somewhere on the stove. I've gotten used to the 6-12 minute ignition times, as long as it starts no big deal. 99% of the time when it lights off, it's pretty much all the pellets in the burn pot at once, not starting at one end, that surprised me. Usually at light-off the burn pot is, eh, half full? Obviously the ignitor is getting hot enough to ignite pellets -- but it might be borderline? It has never gotten worse since new; then again, did not get better, either. By the way, thanks everyone for the input!

Ok so I had a similar issue with mine what I did was take the igniter out of the burn pot and scraped all the crud that had built up over time.be careful not to damage it I used a small screwdriver with flat head to scrape into the little crevices of the igniter. You can do this without disconnecting the wires it did fix my start up issue. Your build date is inside your right hand door on the side of the stove .just open it up and it’s attached to the right side of the stove oh and when you take out your igniter you may find some carbon build up in between the igniter and burn pot holes that otherwise you can’t see to clean with out it removed. So my theory of the issue is dirty igniter inhibited which provides slow ignition and stove keeps feeding pellets causing too many pellets in pot slowing your start up even more.

 

[tiger]

Your combustion fan should be fine,then.What year is your stove? Also, the auger rarely goes bad, and, on a Harman,the auger motor usually gets noisy before it dies.But,depending on the installation,the back side components do get hotter than a FS .

Ok so I had a similar issue with mine what I did was take the igniter out of the burn pot and scraped all the crud that had built up over time.be careful not to damage it I used a small screwdriver with flat head to scrape into the little crevices of the igniter. You can do this without disconnecting the wires it did fix my start up issue. Your build date is inside your right hand door on the side of the stove .just open it up and it’s attached to the right side of the stove oh and when you take out your igniter you may find some carbon build up in between the igniter and burn pot holes that otherwise you can’t see to clean with out it removed. So my theory of the issue is dirty igniter inhibited which provides slow ignition and stove keeps feeding pellets causing too many pellets in pot slowing your start up even more.

Aah, I see inside the RH door at the bottom a series of tiny squares, labeled. There are stamping marks on two of them that suggest a build date of December 2013, shortly before I bought it.

Ignition this AM in seven minutes... that sounds inconsistent with an ignitor problem? Then again, I've had light-off woes before. Perhaps i should look for an online video of ignitor replacement, as it is I cannot visualize doing two things (A, the mechanical attachment of the ignitor to the stove and B, changing over two wires), both with my fingers through a holes perhaps 1.5 inches by 3 inches? This sounds like nano surgery to me. If I can see and understand the process, compared to so many other things an ignitor shouldn't be to expensive (Ha! I 2021, with everything escalating in price?), and somewhere on the forum, I think I once saw the part # and a source (pellethead) for the replacement part.

Same goes for the circuit board, presumably.

 

[Zeus]

Aah, I see inside the RH door at the bottom a series of tiny squares, labeled. There are stamping marks on two of them that suggest a build date of December 2013, shortly before I bought it.

Ignition this AM in seven minutes... that sounds inconsistent with an ignitor problem? Then again, I've had light-off woes before. Perhaps i should look for an online video of ignitor replacement, as it is I cannot visualize doing two things (A, the mechanical attachment of the ignitor to the stove and B, changing over two wires), both with my fingers through a holes perhaps 1.5 inches by 3 inches? This sounds like nano surgery to me. If I can see and understand the process, compared to so many other things an ignitor shouldn't be to expensive (Ha! I 2021, with everything escalating in price?), and somewhere on the forum, I think I once saw the part # and a source (pellethead) for the replacement part.

Same goes for the circuit board, presumably.

I would order a new one through pellet head while your waiting for it try cleaning the old one.see if it Fix your problem if so you can use your new igniter as back up. Replacing igniter pretty easy but you have to pull stove out to do it that’s the hardest part. Oh you can also manually light the stove to also see if the issue is resolved that way.

 

[mtnbiker727]

4 to 7 minutes to light? I've never timed it, but I'd say mine lights in about a minute. Quite often it is lit before the pellets stop flowing on the initial pot fill.

OK, so I timed it yesterday. At 2:58 I got my first sparks, and 3:55 was the first small flame, which rapidly became a full flame. The burnpot kept filling with pellets for maybe 20 seconds after the full flame happened.

Now today when I started it, it didn't spark until after the burnpot was full. I'm not sure what the difference was, it was the same bag of pellets.

 

[tiger]

OK, so I timed it yesterday. At 2:58 I got my first sparks, and 3:55 was the first small flame, which rapidly became a full flame. The burnpot kept filling with pellets for maybe 20 seconds after the full flame happened.

Now today when I started it, it didn't spark until after the burnpot was full. I'm not sure what the difference was, it was the same bag of pellets.

I hear you. Now, my last half-dozen fires have lit off just fine, although nowhere as fast your yours. Same pellets from the same skid. Just like scientific experiments, it's not results if it's not reproducible.

I'm still going to pick up a spare ignitor, but still no clue how to install it and if I get in a bind halfway through the job -- that means calling in a professional.

 

[Mt Bob]

Before you get carried away, be aware 52i's had long history of intermittent poor ignition, and "poof" on lighting. There have been burn pot upgrades, that really helped. The thing to do is see if yours has the "lever" cradle style igniter, if does,it seems they have done away with that,a year or 2 ago,and went to a conventional burn pot and igniter cradle. If you cannot tell the difference, take the igniter cover/clean out off,take a picture and post,we can help. Will leave you some reading material.

Harman 52i igniter

Hi all! Been a while since I e last posted but that because the Harman has been running flawlessly for a few years. Only thing I e replaces is the gaskets and center medallion. Noticed recently though that it’s taking a while to light and pellets are overflowing before igniting. I clean this...

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