Well here we are again with our seasonal quad issues Help!

[green wood]

Seems every season its something with this stove., Started out fine in oct and nov. As soon as we need it cause of dropping temps it acts up. We started out in early oct with a complete cleaning, Bricks out, blower fan cleaning the whole gamit. It worked great up until a month ago. The auger we put it in a few years ago already crapped, so I put another one in. Now it will fire up, lights all work as should....green..then goes to red ect but after a about 15 mins it just stops feeding pellets and fire goes out.
I checked the wire under the thermo, no broke wires , made sure its out enough in the pot.....i cleaned out all the holes in the sides of the pot. pot door is functioning as supposed too. 3 things ive noticed and this is why were here to ask the pros.
First , when it does ignite, it whoofs pretty hard....like a combution whoof! Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 pushes of the reset button to get it to fire up.

Secondly it doesnt always fire up unless i remove the vacuum tubing from the stove side and give it a suck, and then i can hear the switch open or close? not sure on that...but sometimes i need to do that. sometimes not. its weird. other times it starts fine but eventually like stated it goes out ill go to hit the restart and nothing happens and then i have to do the vacumm tubing deal again. ...definately not consistent tho.

Thirdly when it is running or starting up....i can feel a fairly decent blower breeze around the auger side of the stove when the side panel is open. Im nost sure if i ever noticed that before? just seems like a decent abount of air coming around from that area.

I have put a new vacuum switch in this stove not that long ago , I called cleveland controls who makes it and they said it highly doubtfull its bad already as they last for decades. Could i have a vaccum leak some where? My door gasket doesnt look horrible...not like some i see online. Basically its like it loses its prime so to speak.


any pro advice is welcome and appreciated. Ive thought about buying another stove but i have so much money in this one now...and the prices of used stoves is nuts. Id hate to start all over learning a nother brand ect....

 

[Shoe1757]

I am not sure what model you have, but I have an old quadrafire contour (2001). But a few questions might help others with more knowledge than me. What model? Is it running on an external wall thermostat? Are you letting it run out of pellets and then filling the hopper and resetting? When you replaced the auger, was there a seal around the shaft that seals off the end of the auger tube and was it in good condition still? When you did your deep clean, did you remove the burn pot? Did you check the vacuum hose for cracks or bad sealing on the auger tube? Does it use a thermocouple inside a ceramic tube?

If I had to guess, one issue is causing both problems. The whoosh could be lack of air, so the pellets smolder and smoke a lot longer until there is enough free oxygen to start combustion. Be careful as I have personally seen a pellet grill blow the lid wide open when this occurred.

I chased a vacuum problem on my contour one day. Basically completely dismantled it, replaced burn pot gasket (This was an issue one other time), sealed the heat exchanger, cleaned the vent pipe, checked exhaust fan speed, replaced door and window gasket, inspected firebox for cracks, etc etc. Turns out when I was cleaning the vent pipe, my puppy dropped a rag in my exhaust vent cap. It was blocking enough air that the fan could not created a vacuum because the exhaust had no where to go. Pulled the rag out and boom, good as new. Could have saved myself 4 hours.

 

[green wood]

I am not sure what model you have, but I have an old quadrafire contour (2001). But a few questions might help others with more knowledge than me. What model? Is it running on an external wall thermostat? Are you letting it run out of pellets and then filling the hopper and resetting? When you replaced the auger, was there a seal around the shaft that seals off the end of the auger tube and was it in good condition still? When you did your deep clean, did you remove the burn pot? Did you check the vacuum hose for cracks or bad sealing on the auger tube? Does it use a thermocouple inside a ceramic tube?

If I had to guess, one issue is causing both problems. The whoosh could be lack of air, so the pellets smolder and smoke a lot longer until there is enough free oxygen to start combustion. Be careful as I have personally seen a pellet grill blow the lid wide open when this occurred.

I chased a vacuum problem on my contour one day. Basically completely dismantled it, replaced burn pot gasket (This was an issue one other time), sealed the heat exchanger, cleaned the vent pipe, checked exhaust fan speed, replaced door and window gasket, inspected firebox for cracks, etc etc. Turns out when I was cleaning the vent pipe, my puppy dropped a rag in my exhaust vent cap. It was blocking enough air that the fan could not created a vacuum because the exhaust had no where to go. Pulled the rag out and boom, good as new. Could have saved myself 4 hours.

I thanks for responding. Ive been on here quite few times with issues with this stove, Every season its something else. Cant afford to go out and buy a new stove or even a used one the way the pricing is currently so trying to make it through. Its a 1200 stand alone from 2005 I believe. We bought it used.
there was a gasket that gets pinched between the auguer housing and the stove itself. It doesnt fit exactly as good as the original because we bought and entirely different auger and cage one season. I just deep cleaned it last night had all the bricks out...over head pan.....cleaned out all the holes in the pot ect. Last year i took the heat blower motor out and brushed and vacc it out.

your right...i could see how a door could blow out....it can get pretty loud igniting. Doesnt always do it..but it has. I havent done the dollar bill trick this season, but i have in the past. I have a new gasket in a box as a back up. I may attempt that this weekend.

it is not running on a therm. I just run it on med all day. Yes i have run it out of pellots at time sure....buy mostly just add pellots when we get home if were out for any long period. It does have the ceramic cover over the wire above the pot. I checked that last night.....everything looked good. right position ect..... Its weird for sure.....it takes 2 or 3 pushes of the reset button to get a fire......and yes most of the time theres smoke inside then it ignites then it will die out. the red lights come one like there suppose too....but for whatever reason the auger stops feeding pellot to continue. something changed cause all of oct and november the stove ran perfect.... out of the blue it start acting up. so i thought well im not cleaning it often enough. so i did and its still not right. The vaccum switch if fairly new as well. Im trying to replace the vaccum hose but my local hardware store doesnt have much of an assortment in sizes of hoses. I notice the one end got a lil hot and swelled.? maybe thats enough to lose vaccum? no idea...but im gonna try to replace it to remove all doubt. this fall before using i cleaned out the chimney and the clean out to eliminate any issues and the dam thing ran perfect right out the gate.

 

[Shoe1757]

I totally understand the issue of not having the funds to simply replace it. Times are not easy and everything is expensive. I am not a professional by any means, so take it all with a grain of salt and use your own judgement. The 1200 seems somewhat similar in design to my contour as far as controller, burn pot, fans, yadda yadda. So what I say will be based on the assumption that they operate similarly.

So I am thinking of 2 possible causes, maybe both, potentially just one are causing the issue. The slow start up, excessive smoke, and whoosh could be a failing ignitor. It is not getting hot enough to ignite on the first try, so you reset 2 or 3 times.

Are you resetting because there aren't any pellets being fed, or because they never ignited? If its because there is no pellets, we can sort of eliminate the ignitor. If it is feeding pellets, but still won't light, we can go down that path first.

So on my stove, on the startup it will start the exhaust fan, then the igniter. If there is enough vacuum, it will then feed the initial dose of pellets to fire. This should be enough pellets to get a good flame and heat the thermocouple enough that it send voltage to the control box indicating fire. Green light comes on. It will then feed a couple more pellets and continue doing this until the red light comes on indicating it is up to full operating temp. Somewhere around 150 degrees the room blower kicks in.

When you do get it to start, does the flame look normal? Bright yellow and really sharp tips, or is it orange/dark orange with tall slow moving tips, potentially even blackish towards the tip?

Could you post a picture of what it looks like when it does start, but does not continue to feed pellets? I feel like if we put our heads together we can figure this out without wasting money replacing every part until it works normal. I don't like those methods lol.

 

[green wood]

Thank you for replying.
Don't seem to get much help on here much anymore. People aren't too compassionate these days. I can only get it to feed if I suck on the stove side of the vacuum switch hose
Soon as I try to re attach the hose on the nipple it stops feeding.
I guess a 2 yr old switch is bad already. Sucks



I think I read I can jump snap disc 2. And see if it starts with out vacc switch. ..meaning bypassing it.

Don't think it's igniter

It glows read and will ignite pellots if I can get them to feed. Again. That only happens if I pull vacc hose and suck to close switch.

 

[johneh]

Don't seem to get much help on here much anymore. People aren't too compassionate these days.

You could be right about that but then many who have been helped have never said thank you!
You said that if you suck on the vac hose pulling vac from the switch it works. Well to my little brain
you may have damaged the switch it takes very little vac to activate the switch. Jump the wires and see it it works
note if you have all ready tried this and it didn't work then it is my bad for not reading the full thread

 

[green wood]

Thank you for responding. We have always been courteous if you happen to follow are threads about this stove. I guess some folks get tired of hearing about our troubles.
So any way I just jumped the number 2 snap disc that I believe runs the vacuum switch. Is that what you wanted us to try?


I still needed to suck on the vacuum hose to get it to put pellots in the pot. Does this mean our switch is bad already? Crazy if that's true. Its not that old.


By the way as soon as plug in the stove. That switch makes a clicking sound. One click

 

[johneh]

From the wiring harness diag. I have snap disc #2 has nothing to do with the vac. switch .
Take the 2 wires of the vac switch and connect them together (careful not to ground them )
does the auger now work? Does the combustion fan come on?
The circuit for the vac switch is a Red wire to the vac switch from the switch to a capacitor
With a bypass then to the auger motor
This is the manual I am looking at maybe it is not the right one

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installmanuals/CLASSIC_BAY_1200_C_PELLET_STOVE_OWNER_7027_802.pdf

 

[green wood]

From the wiring harness diag. I have snap disc #2 has nothing to do with the vac. switch .
Take the 2 wires of the vac switch and connect them together (careful not to ground them )
does the auger now work? Does the combustion fan come on?
The circuit for the vac switch is a Red wire to the vac switch from the switch to a capacitor
With a bypass then to the auger motor
This is the manual I am looking at maybe it is not the right one

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installmanuals/CLASSIC_BAY_1200_C_PELLET_STOVE_OWNER_7027_802.pdf

Yes. I just did that
And yes the auger immediately started .

So how do I determine if it's the vac switch or a other vacuum issue. Don't really want to buy another switch....as I mentioned. Its not old. We find it hard to believe it's shot already. Unless me sucking on the hose broke it?

 

[Ricks]

When you followed the instructions John gave you and connected the two wires together that were connected to the vacuum switch that test proves the vacuum switch is not working.

The way I read your comments are my stove isn’t working, if I connect the two wires at the vacuum switch together my stove works. If my understanding is correct then the vacuum switch needs to be replaced.

i am not ruling out the stove could have other problems, just the simple test you performed points to a defective vacuum switc.

yes vacuum switches are delicate and sucking on it could have broken it. In the future instead of sucking on it, just temporarily connect the two wires together. Connectnag the two wires together takes the vacuum switch out of the loop.

Rick

 

[green wood]

Thank you!

 

[Shoe1757]

Would be awesome if you had a mag gauge you could make sure the stove is actually pulling enough vacuum and 100% pin point the switch being the problem. But I guess as long as you buy from a decent seller, you could always return the new switch if it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[green wood]

Yes. That would be but that's above my pay grade as I do not know what a mag gage is. Lol

It finally started but took way too long....not normal. I'll look for a vac switch I guess.

Thank u for the help.

 

[ManitobaSky]

If it runs with the vac switch jumped but is not burning correctly you have an other issue. Have you checked the air intake for blockages?

 

[green wood]

If it runs with the vac switch jumped but is not burning correctly you have an other issue. Have you checked the air intake for blockages?

If ur meaning the oak yes I've checked it.
I just pulled the combustion fan yoday and vacuumed it. Wasn't that dirty

With the switched jumped I got a fire and the flame seems normal. But it took a long time to get it fired up. I'm goin to order a vacuum switch this week. Just running out of options.

 

[green wood]

If it runs with the vac switch jumped but is not burning correctly you have an other issue. Have you checked the air intake for blockages?

If ur meaning the oak yes I've checked it.
I just pulled the combustion fan yoday and vacuumed it. Wasn't that dirty

With the switched jumped I got a fire and the flame seems normal. But it took a long time to get it fired up. I'm goin to order a vacuum switch this week. Just running out of options.

 

[green wood]

Thank you for all thar responded to us. We ordered a switch this morning. I.also took the stove all apart yesterday and cleaned out both fans and passage ways. It actually wasn't that dirty as we thought it would be. So hopefully this solves the issue this year.

We have a friend that got divorced who has a stove from ace hardware it's a castle ?

She said she'd sell it to us on the cheap if this doesn't fix our quad.

 

[ManitobaSky]

Hopefully your new switch solves your problems, the stove your friend has is likely a castle serenity. Lots of people seem to like them. I actually have a brand new one sitting in the box. I got it as a backup stove since between myself and my parents we had three Harman stoves.

 

[green wood]

Well we just installed our new switch. Didn't fix it. Shouldn't soon as u hit the reset button the auger should come on correct? It's not. I have a feeling if I pull the vacuum line off and give it a suck it will start feeding like our old switch....but I'm not goin too cause now I'm afraid of ruining a new part. Any ideas folks.?

 

[ManitobaSky]

Remove the vacuum hose from the switch and blow back into the stove, the hose or connection to the stove may have become blocks somehow. also check the hose for holes or cracks. After that start looking at seals and gaskets.

 

[green wood]

Remove the vacuum hose from the switch and blow back into the stove, the hose or connection to the stove may have become blocks somehow. also check the hose for holes or cracks. After that start looking at seals and gaskets.

yes thank you....ive taken a paperclip and cleaned out the nipple the hose pushes onto...inspected the hose as well... Another member that has seen my gasket says its whooped. so Im replacing that next. Unless its something really odd , not sure cause we have been all through the stove that last few years with new parts and cleaning ect.....It is old but their not that complicated as far as how they work. Hoping this is the fix. Getting very very cold here this week and one stove wont cut it. Any one have any luck cutting the gasket into 3 pieces? everyone seem to complain about the corners bunching up then the door not closing afterwards.

 

[ARC]

Im trying to replace the vaccum hose but my local hardware store doesnt have much of an assortment in sizes of hoses. I notice the one end got a lil hot and swelled.? maybe thats enough to lose vaccum?

Did you replace hose when you installed new switch? Local hardware store probably does not carry this type of hose it is a high temperature silicone hose not a rubber hose you get from a hardware store, ebay, amazon and all the pellet stove parts websites sell this hose. Hot and swelled would be enough to lose vacuum you usually can trim a little off the swelled end and reattach.

 

[green wood]

Did you replace hose when you installed new switch? Local hardware store probably does not carry this type of hose it is a high temperature silicone hose not a rubber hose you get from a hardware store, ebay, amazon and all the pellet stove parts websites sell this hose. Hot and swelled would be enough to lose vacuum you usually can trim a little off the swelled end and reattach.

yes i tried to buy hose a hardware and it was nothing close. so i did have an end that got hot towards the fire box, i took a razor and trimmed it back like you mentioned. thank you

 

[ARC]

yes i tried to buy hose a hardware and it was nothing close

Even if you found one the right size it would not be the right hose it is a special high temperature silicone hose.

 

[green wood]

Even if you found one the right size it would not be the right hose it is a special high temperature silicone hose.

yes i believe you. Im back to using the original hose, just trimmed it. Thank you