What are the questions to ask when buying cord wood?

[enduring]

What are the questions to ask when buying cord wood from a seller? I would like to get some input from others on this topic.

While we are harvesting our own wood currently, we don't have any sizable amount for fall this year. We don't heat with wood, but if power goes out in the countryside, we would heat with it for a short period of time. Then there is burning for pleasure and I suspect we will have 2-3 fires a week throughout the fall, winter and spring. I imagine a cord would do fine.

I am having difficulty getting wood bought, even though I see lots of ads in craigslist and facebook. This is new territory for me.

 

[Prof]

Well, this is tricky: You want seasoned wood (i.e., below 20% moisture content when freshly split and measured with the grain on said piece of wood). However, most folks selling wood will claim that their wood is seasoned despite this being obviously false. I choose to believe that they are just unaware, instead of intentionally deceiving me--I know, it is self-serving, but it helps me keep my faith in humanity....a bit. At any rate, knowing the species, when it was cut, and when it was split will help to an extent; but again, nothing takes the place of using your own moisture meter to take a reading on a fresh split. To save the hassle, I'd suggest simply planning on wood that you buy to be green and needing a year to dry out. I'm fortunate to live on about 14 acres of woodland. I can tell you, that I couldn't possibly scrounge a cord of truly dry wood on my land at this point. Most of it could be ready in a year though.... Of course cutting up pallets or buying bio bricks are options as well.

 

[byQ]

1. What kind of wood is it? All woods aren't equal. Some are dense (good) and some are light. Once you find out what kinds of wood are for sale look up their btu rating on a chart. Anything above 20 is good enough.

2. Is the wood dry? The seller may tell you it is. But dryness means different things to people. If the wood is in round form and the seller says it is dry - be wary. If the firewood is oak and the seller says it has seasoned for a year be wary (denser woods take longer to season). It is ok to get green wood if you have time and room to store it.

3. What is the quantity for sale? A cord? a face cord? a pickup load? Know a cord is 4' x 4' x 8'. Measure the amount when it is brought to you. You have the right to reject load if it is less then you ordered.

 

[enduring]

Thank you both. Helpful information. As a new wood stove owner, I need direction.

I scared one potential seller off, by asking how the wood was harvested. I wanted to know if it was cut live, cut standing dead, or on the ground. I thought that was a fair question as that would relate to quality of burns and BTU's right? He shot back a comment that he had years of experience and that I asked too many questions. I did reply, trying to leave the door open to making a deal, but he's gone. This event is what prompted this post. But I also need to learn what to look for in good burning wood.

I would like to know how long can a dead tree stand and still be suitable. Likewise, how long is a tree, laying on the ground, good for wood stove burning. I understand there will be variables and exceptions to the rule, but I don't even know the basics. My husband has been a good source of info, as he has been lighting tank heater fires for decades on the farm. The wood for the old tank heater can be anything, and has been. But as I understand these newer efficent wood stoves deserve better, lol. Its a new world for us.

Today I had fun getting the small amount of wood processed.

 

[brenndatomu]

He shot back a comment that he had years of experience and that I asked too many questions. I did reply, trying to leave the door open to making a deal, but he's gone.

Life is too short to do business with a putz like that...good riddance! A reputable seller will have no problems answering any questions and/or having their wood split open and moisture tested (randomly picked (by you) split)
Proving quantity won't be an issue for an honest seller either...selling by the cord (128 CF) or a fraction of a cord (1/4, 1/2, whatever) and willing to makeup any shortage once a delivery stacks up short. Or some just deliver stacked in a truck...quantity can be known by measuring the truck bed/wood then.
As far as species, I guess I would try to be familiar enough with the species that the seller claims to be bringing you that you can tell if the load is correct or not.
In the end even someone that is experienced could get burnt...once you find a good seller, try to stick with them.
Best plan would be to get a little stash built up so that it has time to dry and then you know what you have....most wood will keep for a long time if not left to lay wet...stacked, not touching the ground directly, with a top cover and open sides works pretty well. most wood species will be ready to go in 2 years (some in 1) and some (like Oak) tend to need 3 years to be real dry.

 

[kennyp2339]

Best bet to do, ask seller if wood is seasoned, more then likely they will say yes, some people seem to add salt and pepper to there wood stacks to make the claim its seasoned, when the seller arrives to deliver, pull 3-5 random splits, re-split and check with meter, if its above 20% then its not seasoned, the caveat here is that its early in the season, so if you get splits measuring 22 - 25% as long as its stacked right away in a area that gets a lot of air movement / sun it will dry out into the upper teens by fall time; anything above 28% I would reject onsite unless they want to take a reduced price for the load.

 

[EODMSgt]

As others have said, the two biggest factors are how long the wood has been seasoned and what type of wood you are getting. I'm not sure what the typical firewood is, and what the humidity/wind/sun amount is for drying where you're at in central Iowa, so what I have here in northern NH is irrelevant.

Unlike Prof, I don't have faith in humanity so I don't believe anyone when they say firewood is seasoned or it is a full cord. I haven't purchased firewood for a while but never had great luck with 'seasoned' wood, even from timber companies. Plan on double checking the moisture content, amount, and type of wood (I've seen where firewood sellers mix in softwoods to fill out their cords). As mentioned previously, a cord is normally 4 feet high by 8 feet long by 4 feet wide whereas a face cord is 4 feet high by 8 feet long by 16 inches wide. A face cord can differentiate if the seller is cutting the splits to a different length (i.e., 4x8 feet by 22 inches).

As for dead trees, there is a lot of variation. White birch goes punky quick when it dies, whether it is standing or on the ground. However red oak can last for years on the ground and is a perfect source. I just cut four standing dead trees yesterday (three long gone and one still dying). The beech was perfectly good, the two ash were 90% good, and the maple was excellent. Yet there are plenty of standing dead around that are completely worthless for firewood. There is no real answer to your question about dead trees due to variables other than you need to get a chainsaw into them and check. A lot of trees, even red oak, can have punk on the outer portion but the heartwood is still perfect for firewood. Just depends on how much time you want to invest. One advantage of standing (or on the ground) dead is that for most species, if you cut them now they will be perfect for burning next season.

Good luck.

 

[enduring]

Thanks for the very good explanations!

Should I start a new thread, with questions regarding starting a wood shed, and wood drying?

 

[moresnow]

Thanks for the very good explanations!

Should I start a new thread, with questions regarding starting a wood shed, and wood drying?

A new thread will generate more replies/opinions for sure. I have always stacked my splits two wide on pallets. My stacks are in a open yard/pasture area with full sun and wind exposure. I don't sweat top covering the stacks until just before snow and ice season. Seasoning time really starts after the rounds have been split and stacked correctly. Nothing goes in my stove until it's been seasoning at minimum 2 years and much of my wood has 3 years or more seasoning time on it.
As a new stove user it is understandably tough to get this coming seasons wood cured/seasoned correctly. Hopefully you can source dry wood somewhere! In the meantime keep cutting, splitting and stacking your own wood off the farm for the future.

 

[enduring]

Moresnow, thanks for your comments. We did cut up some multiple year old logs fo something...? After DH cut the log to lengths, I tested the end cut with my new moisture meter and it read 25% if I recall. Might be maple, might be elm, or even oak. Logs anywhere from 6-16" diameter. have to now develop a rack. So you cover your curing wood seasonally, only at the time of fall and winter precipitation and low temps? I will start that new thread, cause I have a few other questions that really relate to harvesting and curing wood, and not buying it, as this thread was about.

 

[brenndatomu]

I tested the end cut with my new moisture meter and it read 25% if I recall.

Moisture meter doesn't work correctly on end grain...the wood needs to be split so that you can measure the wood in the center...parallel to the grain...must be re-split to test again at a later date...always on a fresh split. And with the wood as close to 70-75* as possible, but that isn't as critical as the re-splitting...well, as long as the wood isn't below 32*F anyways...

 

[enduring]

SCORE! I have a short bed pickup load of 2 year old wood coming today, dumped on the ground. I may be paying too much, but the guy called me right back and told me how he gets the wood. He told me if I didn't like it he'd be ok with not dumping. He said "there's no cardboard or junk wood in my wood". He sources from tree cutting companies and friends. He also cuts his own. Wood is Oak, locust, elm, walnut, and mulberry. We'll have to sort and cover with a tarp for now. Fortunately we live on good draining soil, and have a gravel area we can dump it for now, waiting for our needed shed to be constructed. I started a new thread about wood shed and curing wood.

 

[enduring]

Thanks Brenndatomu. Good to know. I thought since it was a fresh cut, I might get a ball park reading. I will look at it again when we get to the splitting stage. Im getting a load at 1 today, Yay! I asked him all the questions about wood that you all were so helpful in providing me. He was open to discussion and with common sense.

 

[moresnow]

In the late summer/early fall I move my wood up to the back side of the house and stack once again on pallets. This pile gets covered to keep the snow, ice, rain off it. I also move a cord up onto my covered porch in the fall. The porch wood is stacked on simple wood racks. Last fall I started storing a cord in my basement. I use up all the outdoor supply first. Its awful nice to have the wood in the basement for the coldest part of the season. Saves a cold trip outdoors!

 

[brenndatomu]

Its awful nice to have the wood in the basement for the coldest part of the season. Saves a cold trip outdoors

I tried that once...hated all the bugs that came with it, didn't do it again. Stays in the garage now. But a lot of my wood still has the bark on, so that would probably mean more bugs too...

 

[brenndatomu]

I thought since it was a fresh cut, I might get a ball park reading

It may get you into the ballpark parking lot on fresh cut and wet piece, maybe.
But a moisture meter is basically taking a continuity/resistance reading, so that works best working with the grain instead of across it. Kinda like taking an electrical reading on opposite ends of the same wire vs taking it on opposite sides of a bundle of bare wires...that reading is pretty much useless.

 

[byQ]

SCORE! I have a short bed pickup load of 2 year old wood coming today, dumped on the ground. I may be paying too much, but the guy called me right back and told me how he gets the wood. He told me if I didn't like it he'd be ok with not dumping. He said "there's no cardboard or junk wood in my wood". He sources from tree cutting companies and friends. He also cuts his own. Wood is Oak, locust, elm, walnut, and mulberry. We'll have to sort and cover with a tarp for now. Fortunately we live on good draining soil, and have a gravel area we can dump it for now, waiting for our needed shed to be constructed. I started a new thread about wood shed and curing wood.

When you stack this mixed batch try to figure out which species is which. You have 3 denser woods - Oak, Locust, and Mulberry, and 2 medium dense woods - walnut and elm. I might try to position the stack so you can get to the walnut and elm, first. Also, it might be a good time to get an undesirable light wood - because it will dry in one season and be ready while you are waiting for those denser woods. Something like pine, fir, or poplar.

 

[Stinkpickle]

If you’re interested, there’s a nice couple I know in Ankeny with a firewood business who I prefer buy from. I know they’re currently swamped with campfire wood orders, but they’re fun to talk to and have decent prices...at least for pick ups. They deliver mostly, but I pick up, so I don’t know what they charge for deliveries.

 

[brenndatomu]

Something like pine, fir, or poplar.

Silver Maple, Box Elder...and Beech can be decent too, especially dead standing or dead and/or fallen branches that have been that way for a while, but not laying right on the ground...

 

[Stinkpickle]

I agree. Silver maple is a good choice around here. It grows all over the place.

 

[brenndatomu]

It grows all over the place.

Does here too...but can I ever find any when I want it?!
I have starting into a Box Elder glut here recently though...

 

[enduring]

Got my wood! took us 2 hours to receive and stack while building a makeshift rack, and now its started to rain. Just in time.

Stinkpickle. I will message you about your leads etc.

I'm going to the other thread to show my stack and I have some species questions. So join me there if anyone is interested.

 

[moresnow]

I tried that once...hated all the bugs that came with it, didn't do it again. Stays in the garage now. But a lot of my wood still has the bark on, so that would probably mean more bugs too...

Fortunately the wood I take indoors is bark free. We didn't notice any bug issue this year.