What is the best option in purchasing a woodburning insert?

[Pdog]

I just posted this on another board and then found the link to this forum. Wow, lots of info, plan on doing a lot of reading this weekend.

My wife and I are finally biting the bullet after going back and forth the past couple of years. The house we bought has a wood burning fireplace and an old (not sure model name or number) insert that we use every year. Heats the room nicely, but doesn't have a blower and the doors to load it are very small. We don't need it to heat the entire house (1800 sf), but I wouldn't mind if it did at least warm it up a little more than what we have now. We decided now was the time, take advantage of the tax credit.

Not exactly sure how to measure our fireplace since it has an insert in it already. We have seen a couple of models we like, along with the recommendations on this board. What we were wondering is what do you guys find the best way to purchase, have an installer come out, measure and inspect and then give a price, or do you generally go to a dealer to purchase and they recommend an installer? I would prefer to have someone come out so it is measured correctly. I know online sales can save a lot of money too, not sure how many installers would be willing to install a unit they did not supply.

I am pretty handy (roofs, additions, bathroom remodels, etc), but get a little nervous thinking of setting an insert and SS liner up myself for safey reasons if I purchased and decided to install myself.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Welcome to the forum. I would have an installer come out and make their recommendation either way. I would be straight up with them and offer to pay for the evaluation if you are not sure if you are going to do it yourself. More than likely they would apply it toward the job if you go with them. Then, once you have the measurements, spend some time here and figure out what would work best for you. Good luck and take some pics of the existing setup to post with the measurements.

 

[Pdog]

Thanks! I will look in the yellow pages I guess to find installers in the area, not sure where else to look. No idea how they are going to get rid of the old unit, looks like it weighs a ton. I will take some pictures tonight and post them.

 

[webbie]

If you've done bathroom remodels...this is probably easier. In terms of measurement, I usually do these.


1. Height and width of the front opening.
2. Distance back that that measurement goes (usually one brick, etc.).
3. Width of the rear at the bottom
4. Depth from face of fireplace to rear at bottom.
5. Depth from face of fireplace to read (hold tape measure in air) at about 2 feet height (most inserts are about this tall).
6. Distance hearth comes out in front of the fireplace.

Obviously, you'd have to remove your old one - but that may be needed to properly measure and inspect the chimney situation anyway.

 

[AK13]

I'm not sure how it works in your area, but there are independent installers in my area that the shop I bought an insert from recommended. They don't even install themselves. So the installers that I've dealt with (quotes only, nothing installed yet) wouldn't care whether you bought online or through a shop.

 

[btuser]

I don't know if online is going to save you any money, because of the shipping. The hardest part of the install (it was for me working by myself) is getting the stove to the hearth. Do you know if you're going to re-line the flue? I would suggest it but I don't know your situation/installation particulars. All-in-all a decent install is going to cost you about $1000.00 labor. That might be less when you factor a stove shoppe using their own installers and upcharging you on the stove, but its a pretty big/heavy job with some real danger when you start talking about relining a tall chimney. That's 2 guys for the day. Clean the existing flue, perform any demo needed, install an insulated liner w/ top plate + cap, install the new stove/insert and connect, then do a test light and leave your home cleaner than they found it. I'm sure there are other things like block-off plates + actual permits where the AHJ actually shows up that can sprinkle some seasoning on your install but that's about it. In my opinion a grand is a fair price, any more someone's getting greedy any less someone's forgetting something.

I did my own install, because even if it took me a month in the Summer $1,000 is a lot of money to me.

 

[AK13]

The quotes that I got for a SS liner and installation were about $600-700 parts. And $600-700 labor. For me this was the only way to go because I can't handle moving around a 550 lb stove and I'm not a big fan of working out on the roof. If you get to cash in on the tax credit then it applies to the installation as well. One nice thing is that both of the installers I talked to go pick the stove up from the shop and bring it out to install it.

 

[tickbitty]

I didn't find the retailers helpful. I window shopped a couple times and learned nothing except that Morsos were nice looking. They did not seem to want to know what my needs were and they didn't do a good job of communicating to me what they thought were good characteristics.

I measured and drew a diagram researched on here and figured out what I had, (what kind of fireplace and chimney, damper and lining, hearth and support) what would fit in it and what clearances would work with the mantel and surround. Then I decided whether to go with something that would work with the setup I currently had or whether I was going to have to modify a fair amount to get a different kind of stove or result.

I decided to go with what I had, so I researched inserts that would have the characteristics I wanted (stick out of the firebox a fair amount) and would have my square footage at about the center of the stated "range." In my case, there were several options from retailers or online, so I only seriously considered the options where I could see the manual online, to make sure it would work. Then I decided to go with a quality stove from a retailer, that I researched online here and at the manufacturer's website. I went and got it at the retailer that had it in stock and gave me the best price I could find (MSRP I think, nothing special) I measured the chimney, ordered the liner kit online, and after reading a lot on here and elsewhere I had a capable handyman friend do the install for $150.

 

[Pdog]

Since my wife and I just had our first baby (it was a girl), she has a lot of crap piled up in front of the fireplace now so taking a picture if tough. I found a couple of older pics, the first one when we first moved into the house and another one after some remodeling. Again, not sure of the make or model, but the double door access makes loading tough. Looking for a more efficient insert with a blower and larger viewing window. We are going to take a ride later today to a couple of fireplace dealers close by.

 

[tickbitty]

That's not a bad looking stove, for an oldie! I've seen that one before, wait, I found it! It's a Quaker Moravian ca. 1980 I think.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Quaker_Stove_Company/

Anyway: you have a nice setup there.
But I can see why you would want to upgrade to something newer and more efficient, you should be able to get more heat from less wood, anyway!

With the stone mantel etc you shouldn't have many clearance issues so you will probably have a lot of options! Try to pull that insert out and see what kind of fireplace you have, how big it is, and what kind of chimney you have. Take a couple of notes, and think about what your priorities are for how you want it to look and heat. Do you want a maximum glass view? Do you want it to stick out onto the hearth some like the one you currently have? Some inserts stick out some to give more radiant heat into the room even if the power is off, and you can even cook on them. Or are you more interested in a flush mount? For additional ember protection all you would really need is an extender pad on the floor in front of the raised hearth.

I am familiar with the Lopi stoves, the Revere, Republic 1750i, or Freedom would all work there. Also Avalon stoves, Pacific Energy, lots of other brands. There are some really nice looking inserts from Jotul but they are a bit more $, and there are a lot of similar smaller inserts in a variety of price ranges. If you have been to a local dealer, hopefully you are starting to see what you like!

Old inserts like that didn't usually have liners, so you will probably want to do that too I guess.

 

[fredarm]

"Only twenty minutes of easy installation". Must be a slammer....

 

[Pdog]

That's it, thanks tickbitty

We just got back from a dealer. They carry Jotul and Quadra-Fire. The Quadra seemed really nice since it allows you to stack wood front to back, not sure if others allow the same. Then I looked at the Jotul 550 since I saw great reviews on it here and other sites. Well, I got a quote and man this thing is going to cost a lot more than anticipated. Stove is $2900, then add in the SS liner, install, liner cap and another $350 for them to take my old one away....$4900 with tax. Ouch

They are going to have a sale on Jotuls soon, so another 10% off the unit alone. Then I also have the 30% off tax program. Still seems really high for me. Install was $700 alone. I was hoping to get some ideas of their installers names, but no luck. Figured going directly through an installer may save a lot of the extra markup.

Anyway, have another place to go to, they sell Regency, Pacific Energy and Napoleon inserts, so I will have to see what they charge.

 

[tickbitty]

That link I posted was on hearth.com, but of course! I think you could easily get $200-$400 for your old stove and the buyer takes it away (just get it to your garage or front porch or something till they do!) so that seems like something you wouldn't have to do!

Is your house a single story or two? Liner cost will depend on that, but they are not terribly expensive. I suppose the install is a little more difficult on a two story house too, but not necessarily so.

The Jotuls are beautiful stoves, but among the more expensive inserts. There are definitely cheaper options among those other brands you mentioned, which are all good quality makers too, so I guess it all depends on what you like and whether you want to spend the bucks on it. That Jotul would look like a new, super pretty version of what you have there, kinda, so I can see the appeal!

 

[Pdog]

Thanks. We live in a ranch, the 6" SS liner kit he quoted was 25' long for $389

Yeah, I am sure someone would take this one, moving it may be the issue. I guess I would need to take it out the night before, I do not have a damper anymore, so I would not want cold air blowing through for days.

 

[burleymike]

If you can handle a bathroom remodel you can handle installing an insert, it really is not that difficult. I have a busted back and a hernia so getting it into the fireplace was out of the question. I gave my old insert away to my neighbor and he brought a bunch of guys that hauled it off. I hired some movers who took it from the pallet in the garage and put it in the fireplace and they even connected the liner for $100. For me getting the liner insulation on the liner and getting it down the chimney was the hardest part.

Local stove shop wanted over $2000 for the insert, $550 liner and insulation, $300 delivery, $600 labor to install it. I bought the insert, liner and insulation for just under $2200 delivered with a lift gate truck.

 

[Pdog]

Thanks, that is some big savings.

Just saw someone in the area advertising NAPOLEON 1402 installed with SS liner for $2900. Don't know much about that insert, will do some research. Figure tax is another $200 and whatever they charge to get rid of the old unit (unless I find someone locally that wants it), it would be a nice saving over the Jotul. Need to start reading up more on that unit.