What the heck is going on here? Rotten?

[handsplitter]

Unless you guys reassure me to the contrary, I have some very unfortunate news about some of my firewood.

I took a Oak tree down in February 2016. Radius about 2 to 3 feet at the ground level so a good-sized tree. There was no problem with the tree at all, the homeowner just wanted it down, it was definitely alive and healthy looking before it lost the leaves in November and so you have to assume in February as well.

I processed all the limbs that didn't require too much splitting. Everything went as planned. The huge trunk was cut off in 12 to 16 inches lengths, kept off the ground, air between each piece, very much in the sun, can't remember if I covered them but I probably did until spring came along. Keeping my eye on them over the months everything look just fine. I like to split a little bit every few days for some exercise so I finally got around to these bigger trunk pieces a few weeks ago so about eight months from the time we took down that green tree and February 2016.

Turns out the outer probably 40-60% appears rotted. Looking carefully, I do see a different color in this outer perimeter. So the innermost 30-40% is non-rotted normal would when I split it. It's not even worth the effort to go after that good 30%. I think I will trash it all, what a shame, what a waste. Just for my verification, I am going to take a couple of pieces with obvious rot and burn them outside just to be sure but I don't think that's going to change my opinion that it's rotted. And I do see some mushrooms on the outside in addition to that discoloration- mushrooms mean riding right?

I've been doing this for decades, this never happened to me. Has anyone else experienced this? I have to believe that there was already some type of fungus on/in the tree and then it just took off. But I'm telling you when we cut this tree down it was all solid/green.

All comments appreciated.

 

[johneh]

I have had the same thing with big rounds that have not been split .
Oak has so much moisture that with the bark on it will rot the outside edges
and the center say good . It rots somewhat like birch will with the bark intact
Now I always split mine right away . If it is covered it rots faster .

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, that's probably just the sapwood that has rotted. Most of what falls here is Red Oak, and the punky sapwood is something you have to deal with. The heartwood should still be good. Heck, I've seen trunks that have been lying around out there for years, all the sapwood long gone but the heart is still good. Sometimes if the sapwood is pretty crumbly I will just knock some of it off with a hatchet if it's very easy to do. I takes a bit more time but whaddya gonna do when most of the wood you get is dead Red Oak?

 

[maple1]

Does it crumble when you split it?

 

[Hasufel]

I've harvested quite a few oaks over the years, some of which were long dead and even buried in leaves, and never had more than an inch or so of punk around the edges. The cores have all been in fantastic shape. This is a huge contrast to hickory, which seems to get crumbly as soon as it hits the ground. I'd say let the condition of it decide: split it if it splits, toss it if it crumbles.

 

[Jeffm1]

Unless you guys reassure me to the contrary, I have some very unfortunate news about some of my firewood.

I took a Oak tree down in February 2016. Radius about 2 to 3 feet at the ground level so a good-sized tree. There was no problem with the tree at all, the homeowner just wanted it down, it was definitely alive and healthy looking before it lost the leaves in November and so you have to assume in February as well.

I processed all the limbs that didn't require too much splitting. Everything went as planned. The huge trunk was cut off in 12 to 16 inches lengths, kept off the ground, air between each piece, very much in the sun, can't remember if I covered them but I probably did until spring came along. Keeping my eye on them over the months everything look just fine. I like to split a little bit every few days for some exercise so I finally got around to these bigger trunk pieces a few weeks ago so about eight months from the time we took down that green tree and February 2016.

Turns out the outer probably 40-60% appears rotted. Looking carefully, I do see a different color in this outer perimeter. So the innermost 30-40% is non-rotted normal would when I split it. It's not even worth the effort to go after that good 30%. I think I will trash it all, what a shame, what a waste. Just for my verification, I am going to take a couple of pieces with obvious rot and burn them outside just to be sure but I don't think that's going to change my opinion that it's rotted. And I do see some mushrooms on the outside in addition to that discoloration- mushrooms mean riding right?

I've been doing this for decades, this never happened to me. Has anyone else experienced this? I have to believe that there was already some type of fungus on/in the tree and then it just took off. But I'm telling you when we cut this tree down it was all solid/green.

All comments appreciated.

Can you post some pictures?

 

[maple1]

I re-read the post, sounds like the rotted thoughts are just from a color difference?

Didn't see mention of actually splitting it yet.

Only one way to find out, and that's split it & see how it turns out. I don't think trying to burn it will tell much, it's all too wet to burn, rotten or not rotten.

 

[excessads]

Splitted some of the oak today, the exterior look fine, but interior is kinda smelly and clearly diseased. I don't see any bugs, termite marks, or EAB tracks/holes. Would you burn them after they dry out for a year or so? Some other bigger pieces laced with dried out shrooms on the outside look perfectly fine. I don't think they will be an issue burning indoor.

 

[Hasufel]

Splitted some of the oak today, the exterior look fine, but interior is kinda smelly and clearly diseased. I don't see any bugs, termite marks, or EAB tracks/holes. Would you burn them after they dry out for a year or so? Some other bigger pieces laced with dried out shrooms on the outside look perfectly fine. I don't think they will be an issue burning indoor.

Oak is normally "smelly"--good smelly for some people (like me) and bad smelly for others--so that might not mean much. I've processed some long-dead oak that had weird stains inside from fungus or whatever, but once split and stacked it still seasoned and eventually burned fine. Oak tends to hold up quite well, which is one reason I love it so much. In your case it's hard to say without pix but, as I suggested above, let the splitting characteristics guide you. Once the wood gets to the crumbly stage it doesn't split well and, IMO, it isn't worth messing with unless you're desperate.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

The rotten crumbly sapwood is great when it's dried out. Each split has it's own built in kindling...

 

[handsplitter]

Yes the heartwood is still good. But it is just not worth the effort to get to it, even if I had a log splitter I probably would not do it?

"Does it crumble when you split it?"
No it does not. If I take a piece that is entirely the "rotted" outside/non-heartwood, and strike it with an ax it will split into 2 pieces, see photo. Are you implying that this wood will be okay to burn in my wood stove with the catalyst? As I mentioned, I am going to take a piece & burn it outside to see if it smokes or not, and also to see what kind of coals it produces; and if you guys have any comments about that I would appreciate it.

"split it if it splits, toss it if it crumbles."
That is fantastic news, and it kind of makes sense, I guess that once those pieces are split that they can really dry out and be just fine? Have I got that right? I do not plan to burn and stuff until winter 2017/2018 so about one year from now which will make it about two years from the date it was cut down.


Another question I have: will this fungus, if that is what it is, travel to other pieces of wood that do not currently have at? I wouldn't think so. My wood rack is a good 1 foot off the ground and with a roof but not touching the wood, and some sunshine (the point is it's stays dry once it's on the wood rack and gets plenty of air and some sun).


"Only one way to find out, and that's split it & see how it turns out. I don't think trying to burn it will tell much, it's all too wet to burn, rotten or not rotten."
You said it is too wet because it is only "12 months from following the tree" in February 2016? I believe I read on here that we should go for 18+ months before burning, is that right?

That one picture with the 2 splits is not that great because it is really much more white/yellow than shows

I also wanted to ask: in the future, I will make an effort to get the stuff split ASAP. But I would like your best guess on how many times I have to split a large round. Splitting it wants in half will help but not enough? So splitting it twice into quarters would be much better?

My goal is to give me a little bit of exercise for as long as I can string out. But I will hustle to get the big rounds split but I want to split them as little as possible to make the exercise last for a longer period of time. I am sure there is no exact science to "how many splits will it take to keep the perimeter from "rotting" ", but my guess is that if I had split these 2 foot radius rounds into quarters that I would have been fine because it gets so hot here in the summer and I chip away the bark whenever I can. Anybody have any experience about "partially splitting big rounds so they don't start to rot on you"

I really appreciate you guys commenting. I haven't spent much time on the site and can't wait till I get around to doing so, I always knew there was guys out there like you!

 

[excessads]

Yes the heartwood is still good. But it is just not worth the effort to get to it, even if I had a log splitter I probably would not do it?

"Does it crumble when you split it?"
No it does not. If I take a piece that is entirely the "rotted" outside/non-heartwood, and strike it with an ax it will split into 2 pieces, see photo. Are you implying that this wood will be okay to burn in my wood stove with the catalyst? As I mentioned, I am going to take a piece & burn it outside to see if it smokes or not, and also to see what kind of coals it produces; and if you guys have any comments about that I would appreciate it.

"split it if it splits, toss it if it crumbles."
That is fantastic news, and it kind of makes sense, I guess that once those pieces are split that they can really dry out and be just fine? Have I got that right? I do not plan to burn and stuff until winter 2017/2018 so about one year from now which will make it about two years from the date it was cut down.


Another question I have: will this fungus, if that is what it is, travel to other pieces of wood that do not currently have at? I wouldn't think so. My wood rack is a good 1 foot off the ground and with a roof but not touching the wood, and some sunshine (the point is it's stays dry once it's on the wood rack and gets plenty of air and some sun).


"Only one way to find out, and that's split it & see how it turns out. I don't think trying to burn it will tell much, it's all too wet to burn, rotten or not rotten."
You said it is too wet because it is only "12 months from following the tree" in February 2016? I believe I read on here that we should go for 18+ months before burning, is that right?

That one picture with the 2 splits is not that great because it is really much more white/yellow than shows

I also wanted to ask: in the future, I will make an effort to get the stuff split ASAP. But I would like your best guess on how many times I have to split a large round. Splitting it wants in half will help but not enough? So splitting it twice into quarters would be much better?

My goal is to give me a little bit of exercise for as long as I can string out. But I will hustle to get the big rounds split but I want to split them as little as possible to make the exercise last for a longer period of time. I am sure there is no exact science to "how many splits will it take to keep the perimeter from "rotting" ", but my guess is that if I had split these 2 foot radius rounds into quarters that I would have been fine because it gets so hot here in the summer and I chip away the bark whenever I can. Anybody have any experience about "partially splitting big rounds so they don't start to rot on you"

I really appreciate you guys commenting. I haven't spent much time on the site and can't wait till I get around to doing so, I always knew there was guys out there like you!

OP: don't mean to hijack your post, but your question is relevant to mine.



In my case, they splitted fine a little stringy in the middle but def smells funny. I ll prob season the for at least a year and see if smell goes away.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Hasufel]

Yes the heartwood is still good. But it is just not worth the effort to get to it, even if I had a log splitter I probably would not do it?

"Does it crumble when you split it?"
No it does not. If I take a piece that is entirely the "rotted" outside/non-heartwood, and strike it with an ax it will split into 2 pieces, see photo. Are you implying that this wood will be okay to burn in my wood stove with the catalyst? As I mentioned, I am going to take a piece & burn it outside to see if it smokes or not, and also to see what kind of coals it produces; and if you guys have any comments about that I would appreciate it.

"split it if it splits, toss it if it crumbles."
That is fantastic news, and it kind of makes sense, I guess that once those pieces are split that they can really dry out and be just fine? Have I got that right? I do not plan to burn and stuff until winter 2017/2018 so about one year from now which will make it about two years from the date it was cut down.

...

I also wanted to ask: in the future, I will make an effort to get the stuff split ASAP. But I would like your best guess on how many times I have to split a large round. Splitting it wants in half will help but not enough? So splitting it twice into quarters would be much better?

My goal is to give me a little bit of exercise for as long as I can string out. But I will hustle to get the big rounds split but I want to split them as little as possible to make the exercise last for a longer period of time. I am sure there is no exact science to "how many splits will it take to keep the perimeter from "rotting" ", but my guess is that if I had split these 2 foot radius rounds into quarters that I would have been fine because it gets so hot here in the summer and I chip away the bark whenever I can. Anybody have any experience about "partially splitting big rounds so they don't start to rot on you"

I really appreciate you guys commenting. I haven't spent much time on the site and can't wait till I get around to doing so, I always knew there was guys out there like you!

Even crumbly/rotted wood will burn if it's dry, and others have pointed out that it can act as a fire-starter. The point I was trying to make is that I find it's not worth it to mess with wood that has decayed to the point where it no longer splits cleanly but rather crumbles. That's my personal cost-benefit calculation. But it sounds like your wood isn't yet at that point, so if it were me I'd go ahead and split/stack it all. I don't have any hard data on how many splits are needed--generally more is better but even one will help. Drying conditions play a role as well, so if you're in a really humid/rainy environment then you probably should top-cover as well. I don't top-cover my splits for the first year or so but then again I tend to split fairly small.

 

[Hasufel]

OP: don't mean to hijack your post, but your question is relevant to mine.

View attachment 185595

In my case, they splitted fine a little stringy in the middle but def smells funny. I ll prob season the for at least a year and see if smell goes away.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

That looks like good wood to me. Can you describe the smell? If it smells like fermented fruit then that's normal for oak. I happen to love the smell of freshly split oak, but some people don't. That smell will fade away as the wood dries out.

 

[excessads]

That looks like good wood to me. Can you describe the smell? If it smells like fermented fruit then that's normal for oak. I happen to love the smell of freshly split oak, but some people don't. That smell will fade away as the wood dries out.

It was damped inside when I split them yesterday, def has a hint of moldy / or as you put it fermenting. I ll hold on to them thx!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[handsplitter]

excessads, I agree, that wood looks good to me,


" so if it were me I'd go ahead and split/stack it all."
10-4 that is what I'm going to do then. What a relief. I'm still going to burn a fewis outside soon after I let it "season rapidly close to the fire". I will report back what I find out. Comments from any of you other guys still appreciated.

 

[Jeffm1]

Yes the heartwood is still good. But it is just not worth the effort to get to it, even if I had a log splitter I probably would not do it?

"Does it crumble when you split it?"
No it does not. If I take a piece that is entirely the "rotted" outside/non-heartwood, and strike it with an ax it will split into 2 pieces, see photo. Are you implying that this wood will be okay to burn in my wood stove with the catalyst? As I mentioned, I am going to take a piece & burn it outside to see if it smokes or not, and also to see what kind of coals it produces; and if you guys have any comments about that I would appreciate it.

"split it if it splits, toss it if it crumbles."
That is fantastic news, and it kind of makes sense, I guess that once those pieces are split that they can really dry out and be just fine? Have I got that right? I do not plan to burn and stuff until winter 2017/2018 so about one year from now which will make it about two years from the date it was cut down.


Another question I have: will this fungus, if that is what it is, travel to other pieces of wood that do not currently have at? I wouldn't think so. My wood rack is a good 1 foot off the ground and with a roof but not touching the wood, and some sunshine (the point is it's stays dry once it's on the wood rack and gets plenty of air and some sun).


"Only one way to find out, and that's split it & see how it turns out. I don't think trying to burn it will tell much, it's all too wet to burn, rotten or not rotten."
You said it is too wet because it is only "12 months from following the tree" in February 2016? I believe I read on here that we should go for 18+ months before burning, is that right?

That one picture with the 2 splits is not that great because it is really much more white/yellow than shows

I also wanted to ask: in the future, I will make an effort to get the stuff split ASAP. But I would like your best guess on how many times I have to split a large round. Splitting it wants in half will help but not enough? So splitting it twice into quarters would be much better?

My goal is to give me a little bit of exercise for as long as I can string out. But I will hustle to get the big rounds split but I want to split them as little as possible to make the exercise last for a longer period of time. I am sure there is no exact science to "how many splits will it take to keep the perimeter from "rotting" ", but my guess is that if I had split these 2 foot radius rounds into quarters that I would have been fine because it gets so hot here in the summer and I chip away the bark whenever I can. Anybody have any experience about "partially splitting big rounds so they don't start to rot on you"

I really appreciate you guys commenting. I haven't spent much time on the site and can't wait till I get around to doing so, I always knew there was guys out there like you!

Wow. After seeing the pics , looks just fine. Really, I think you are way over thinking this. I would burn that wood all day long and never give it another thought. Just get it dried out really well. Sometimes I think firefighters must scratch their heads in some of these forums. They know ALL wood burns. And it burns so well they have an occupation that pays them a living. After all, 100 year old houses burn really well no matter what species of wood they are built with. I think sometimes in firewood snobbery it's easy to forget that.

 

[handsplitter]

Jeffm1, thanks for your comment !

Oh I'm sure it will burn. I was taught that creosote can build up when you burn wet wood or rotten wood or green wood, that is what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to gum up my catalyst. As you said you can burn a totally green tree, that was not my concern. It helps me knowing you think it looks good. It never happened to me in all these years, but it's a good lesson.
I was going to trash all this wood, so glad I asked you guys.

 

[gerry100]

I've had oaks in my log length pile "punk" from the outside in, no big deal.

also have picked up oak off the forest floor with outside rotted almost but hard as a rock at the core.

sll burned fine

 

[revdocjim]

I recently had the same experience as Gerry. I cut several sections off a large oak that was on the ground and hauled it home only to discover that the center was spongy while the outside was nice and hard. In the spongy part there were streaks of white rubber, as though the sap had solidified and turned into rubber. The white stuff was in thin layers...

 

[maple1]

Jeffm1, thanks for your comment !

Oh I'm sure it will burn. I was taught that creosote can build up when you burn wet wood or rotten wood or green wood, that is what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to gum up my catalyst. As you said you can burn a totally green tree, that was not my concern. It helps me knowing you think it looks good. It never happened to me in all these years, but it's a good lesson.
I was going to trash all this wood, so glad I asked you guys.

Wood looks fine to me. As posted above, my 'rot test' is if it crumbles. Even if it does crumble, it will still burn if you can get it dried out - it just won't have as many BTUs in it. So burning rotten wood won't make more creosote AS LONG AS IT IS DRY - it just won't give as much heat. (I have found one exception to that - sometimes rotten birch will not crumble). Rotten stuff can also soak up moisture if not kept under cover & air can't get at it good - it's kind of like a sponge.

And the reason I said above about it still being wet regardless - oak (most wood actually) doesn't really start to dry good until it is cut & split & stacked. So even if down & cut up since February, it hasn't done much drying inside yet. And the longer it goes without really drying, the more chance for rot to really set in.

And how small to split it comes down to how quick you want it do dry, what your stove likes, and handling concerns.

 

[Hasufel]

I recently had the same experience as Gerry. I cut several sections off a large oak that was on the ground and hauled it home only to discover that the center was spongy while the outside was nice and hard. In the spongy part there were streaks of white rubber, as though the sap had solidified and turned into rubber. The white stuff was in thin layers...

I've seen some of that white stuff, too, but assumed it was some kind of fungus and that the thin layers might just be from the stuff growing along a natural split. Almost every time I've seen rot* on red oak, however, it's been in a thin (no more than about 1 inch) layer on the outside of the round...I don't think I've ever encountered a rotten interior, at least not with oak. It's always as @gerry100 described it, hard as a rock at the core.

* I'm talking about rot to the point of being punky. A bit of fungus on sound wood doesn't count in my book!