Which brand/size stove??

[Preacherman]

Hey Guys...i'm new here and really just came seeking advice on newer stoves. The house we live in is about 2200 sq ft with 1800 on the main level and the rest in bonus rooms upstairs. I currently heat with a Buck 27000 insert that i modified with a baffle and secondary burn tubes. It works pretty well but the fans need to be on at all times if you want much heat. We are considering swapping out for a free standing stove. I realize stoves have changed alot over the past several years but about all i am accustomed to are the older fisher style and warm morning cabinet styles. If i were to use one of those type stoves i would'nt have alot of trouble choosing a good size for this house. I would much rather use a newer more efficient type stove but really have no idea where to begin looking!

I considered buying something like a fisher Grandma and then modify it with glass doors, a baffle and burn tubes like i did the insert...i may still go this route. But honestly, if i could get a decent deal on a newer stove with all that already instaled, i would rather go that route. I looked at a few U.S. Stove and Vogelzang plus Lowes and Homedepot specials, all in the 2500-3000 sq ft range but am more confused than before...lol. I really would like to stay on the lower side moneywise but also don't wanna buy cheap junk either.

This house isn't very well insulated (built in the 60's) and the climate here in the winter is cold...teens/20's overnight with some single digits and wind from time to time. The unit i have now uses around 4-5 full cords of dry hardwood a year and i would like to stay in that range or better if possible. Thanks for responses here...i'm open to suggestions as i feel like im at a loss. From what i understand, the Buck 27000 was around 30-35000 btu max...some of these larger stoves are 115,000- even 150,000 btu...while others of the same size are less than 60,000 btu...not sure what i'm missing!

 

[begreen]

Depending on the installation location a freestanding stove can provide much better performance than an insert, especially without a blower running. If you are trying to stay within a low budget look at some Englander (Summer's Heat at Lowes), Drolet and Century stoves.

 

[Preacherman]

Awesome, thanks! I'll look into those models. Again, considering the sq footage and lack of insulation...should i be looking at something that matches my home size or go bigger?

 

[begreen]

You are up in the hills in God's country. I would look at stoves in the 2.5 to 3 cu ft range. That would be the Englander 30NC or 50 SSW01 and 50 SSW02, or the Drolet Myriad II/Legend II/Austral/Baltic II or HT2000.

 

[Woody Stover]

The stoves begreen suggested are decent, and won't break the bank. Work on improving your insulation and air-sealing, too. Your house will retain heat better and you can cut your wood usage further. In that climate I'd think you should be able to heat the place with under 3 cords.
What do they get for a Buck 74 in your neck of the woods?

 

[Preacherman]

Oh i agree 100% on insulation...but this is a rental house so that part of it is up to the owner. The house has oil heat but i would much rather spend time cutting wood than buying oil. I think at some point the owner may do the better insulation but right now they are still paying on the house so i'm sure extra money is tight. I may consider doing the work myself later on any way just to make things better for us. I checked on the Buck 74 and $1500-1700 seems to be the going rate unless i could buy direct from the factory. I may call and see about that as they are only an hour down the road from me. Thanks for the response...i do appreciate it.

 

[begreen]

What is the plan and budget for safely venting the stove?

 

[tpenny67]

You may want to go to a dealer and ask if there are any stove change out programs in your area. I went into a stove dealer in Vermont to kick some tires, found out about their change-out program, and ended up getting $1500 off a new Quadra Fire which made it cheaper than a Home Depot / Lowes stove (before delivery and installation, etc.). In this case, the rebate wasn't available at the big box stores, as it was partly intended to help support smaller businesses.

 

[Woody Stover]

I checked on the Buck 74 and $1500-1700 seems to be the going rate unless i could buy direct from the factory.

I think sales would be through a dealer only. You might be able to do some easy air-sealing that would help, like weatherstripping doors. That's a lot easier than addressing insulation issues.

What is the plan and budget for safely venting the stove?

Yep, chimney costs can equal the price of the stove, especially if you don't install it yourself.

You may want to go to a dealer and ask if there are any stove change out programs in your area. I went into a stove dealer in Vermont to kick some tires, found out about their change-out program, and ended up getting $1500 off a new Quadra Fire which made it cheaper than a Home Depot / Lowes stove (before delivery and installation, etc.). In this case, the rebate wasn't available at the big box stores, as it was partly intended to help support smaller businesses.

And there's a federal tax rebate. Not sure if any of this stuff would apply to a rental property, though.

 

[begreen]

Didn't the fed tax credit end in December?

 

[Woody Stover]

Didn't the fed tax credit end in December?

DOH! Probably not coming back soon, either.

 

[Preacherman]

What is the plan and budget for safely venting the stove?

The current buck 27000 is inserted into the masonary fireplace and directly sealed to the flue. About all i could do is a direct connect to the current flue as cutting a hole in another fella's house is probably not an option..lol!

You may want to go to a dealer and ask if there are any stove change out programs in your area. I went into a stove dealer in Vermont to kick some tires, found out about their change-out program, and ended up getting $1500 off a new Quadra Fire which made it cheaper than a Home Depot / Lowes stove (before delivery and installation, etc.). In this case, the rebate wasn't available at the big box stores, as it was partly intended to help support smaller businesses.

That's a great idea...will definately consider checking on this...however, i doubt they would want my "modified" Buck...lol!

 

[Preacherman]

I think sales would be through a dealer only. You might be able to do some easy air-sealing that would help, like weatherstripping doors. That's a lot easier than addressing insulation issues.

Yes Sir, i have basically taken care of as much of the draft issues i could with widow/door seal kits. There's an issue or two, here and there but nothing major. About all that's left would be better insulation in the floor, walls and attic and possibly better widows. All of which i think will happen at some point in the future, but again...i think that will end up being mostly the owners decision.
Thanks for all the reply's!

 

[Preacherman]

Oh Man, i just found a Napoleon 1900 on craigslist bout 2 hrs from me that is supposed to be mint for $450 OBO! If this thing is in good shape, that would be a good deal correct? Upper baffle replaced recently and comes with new replacement fire brick. Would the size of the stove be about right for my application?

 

[Preacherman]

Also found a Quadra Fire 3100 for $350 in good condition?

 

[HisTreeNut]

Welcome to the forums!
Considering it is a rental, I would be leery of replacing anything without the owners expressed consent. I fixed a hack job repair my landlord did on our rental and 2 years later, I am still waiting/fighting for my security deposit. Expensive lesson learned.
That being said, the Buck Stove factory is not that far from you and it would be worth the trip. They have all their stoves on display so you can see what they look like. The staff is very friendly and helpful...helped us with picking out our stove.
If you go the used stove route, inspect the stoves carefully...look for warped parts, welds gone bad, gaskets, and so on. Folks tend to abuse stoves in that they do not know how to properly use them., then sell them cheaply to get rid of them. Definitely buyer beware...

 

[kennyp2339]

Insulation improvements are prob the biggest bang of your buck. I'm in the midst of purchasing a home built in 1979 with 2x4 framing walls, my plan is to treat the existing wood siding on the outside with a bug repellant, install new vapor barrier and install 4" thick foam board then do a simple elastic masonry skim coat with some wood framing pieces to add detail. I also need to replace windows but thats because there single pane non temper. I will also be adding blown in insulation to the attic hopefully achieving R 45 + with R 25 walls.
This seems like the cheapest route for the biggest gain. If I have any extra money left over this season I will be buying to new fiberglass front and side doors. The fiberglass door are beautiful now (a little pricy) but they wont expand or shrink, no warping and built to almost so tight specs that you don't need any weather striping, and are made to look like wood.

 

[begreen]

Oh Man, i just found a Napoleon 1900 on craigslist bout 2 hrs from me that is supposed to be mint for $450 OBO! If this thing is in good shape, that would be a good deal correct? Upper baffle replaced recently and comes with new replacement fire brick. Would the size of the stove be about right for my application?

That can be a good heater. How old is it? This stove will want decent draft to perform well. How tall is the chimney in your home? What is its ID? Is it tile lined?

Also found a Quadra Fire 3100 for $350 in good condition?

Also a good stove, but am concerned about the plan to direct connect, especially if the current flue's area is too large for a 6" flue stove. Draft and dry wood are important on a modern stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

That can be a good heater. How old is it? This stove will want decent draft to perform well. How tall is the chimney in your home? What is its ID? Is it tile lined?
Also a good stove, but am concerned about the plan to direct connect, especially if the current flue's area is too large for a 6" flue stove. Draft and dry wood are important on a modern stove.

Great ??s by begreen here. Knowing the chimney height and inside diameter of the chimney (clay liner?) will give a better idea of what kind of draft you can expect with a direct-connect setup.
I would look the Napoleon over carefully...if they cooked the baffle, there may also be other over-fire damage.
And he raises the perennial question..."Have you got dry wood?" As in, split and stacked in the wind for a couple years. If not, you have all summer to look for a stove deal...ya can't really burn right now without dry wood. Split and stack soft Maple and Black Cherry right now, and you might get by burning it this fall.

 

[Preacherman]

Welcome to the forums!
Considering it is a rental, I would be leery of replacing anything without the owners expressed consent. I fixed a hack job repair my landlord did on our rental and 2 years later, I am still waiting/fighting for my security deposit. Expensive lesson learned.
That being said, the Buck Stove factory is not that far from you and it would be worth the trip. They have all their stoves on display so you can see what they look like. The staff is very friendly and helpful...helped us with picking out our stove.
If you go the used stove route, inspect the stoves carefully...look for warped parts, welds gone bad, gaskets, and so on. Folks tend to abuse stoves in that they do not know how to properly use them., then sell them cheaply to get rid of them. Definitely buyer beware...

The more i think on a "used" stove the more i lean toward new. Atleast that way you would have some sort of warranty. Definately hoping to get buy the buck plant and see their stoves! The owner is ok with adding a stove...he was ok with adding the insert when we first came. I think he trusts me to do it right...and, i'm not terribly concerned about the money i put in to it...he is a great guy! Thanks for the welcome...already loving the site...a huge amount of great info here!

Insulation improvements are prob the biggest bang of your buck. I'm in the midst of purchasing a home built in 1979 with 2x4 framing walls, my plan is to treat the existing wood siding on the outside with a bug repellant, install new vapor barrier and install 4" thick foam board then do a simple elastic masonry skim coat with some wood framing pieces to add detail. I also need to replace windows but thats because there single pane non temper. I will also be adding blown in insulation to the attic hopefully achieving R 45 + with R 25 walls.
This seems like the cheapest route for the biggest gain. If I have any extra money left over this season I will be buying to new fiberglass front and side doors. The fiberglass door are beautiful now (a little pricy) but they wont expand or shrink, no warping and built to almost so tight specs that you don't need any weather striping, and are made to look like wood.

Oh i agree on the insulation...again, if it were my home i think i would address those issues first and then seek a smaller/ more efficient stove.

That can be a good heater. How old is it? This stove will want decent draft to perform well. How tall is the chimney in your home? What is its ID? Is it tile lined?

Also a good stove, but am concerned about the plan to direct connect, especially if the current flue's area is too large for a 6" flue stove. Draft and dry wood are important on a modern stove.

Not sure on the age of the Napoleon but i will try to find out. Chimney is about 14-15 ft from the top of the fire box. I.D. looked to be about 8" square when i put the Buck in. And it is tile lined...what i could see looked to be in great shape and if i recall, the owner said they had the flue cleaned and inspected a few years before i came and then never really used it afterward. I feel pretty confident on the moisture of the wood but i will be getting a moisture meter before next season. Theres also about 40 acres of woods here that i can access for firewood. The owner gave me free range on anything that is already dead or down. With that in mind, i believe i could cut and stack all dead/dry hardwoods and maybe mix in some dead/dry softwoods. If i get everything stacked and covered 5-6 months ahead i believe i would be good to go...being that i will be cutting dead wood to start with. We have alot of red/white oak, locust and maple here so i blessed atleast in that way. Anybody burning walnut...seems to be alot of that around also.

Great ??s by begreen here. Knowing the chimney height and inside diameter of the chimney (clay liner?) will give a better idea of what kind of draft you can expect with a direct-connect setup.
I would look the Napoleon over carefully...if they cooked the baffle, there may also be other over-fire damage.
And he raises the perennial question..."Have you got dry wood?" As in, split and stacked in the wind for a couple years. If not, you have all summer to look for a stove deal...ya can't really burn right now without dry wood. Split and stack soft Maple and Black Cherry right now, and you might get by burning it this fall.

I will look that Napoleon over very good if i go that route! And yes, i think we are good on wood as best i can tell...we use a Buck 27000 modified with a baffle and secondary tubes now and it definately doesn't crew up damp wood the way it would before the modification.

 

[Woody Stover]

The more i think on a "used" stove the more i lean toward new. Atleast that way you would have some sort of warranty. Definately hoping to get buy the buck plant and see their stoves! The owner is ok with adding a stove...he was ok with adding the insert when we first came. I think he trusts me to do it right and, i'm not terribly concerned about the money i put in to it

Ahhh, more money to spend. We can certainly help you in that regard! You can always take it with you if you end up moving. If you're serious about heating with wood, spend the money now to get a stove you will be happy with for a long while. Problem is, they keep coming out with new stuff and I start looking at the greener grass on the other side.

I feel pretty confident on the moisture of the wood but i will be getting a moisture meter before next season. Theres also about 40 acres of woods here that i can access for firewood. The owner gave me free range on anything that is already dead or down.

Woo-hoo! You've got it made! Go out there and look for anything small and dead, standing or down, with the bark off. [<8"] Take a hatchet with you and chop into 'em to see if they are solid wood. This will also tell you how good the wood might be...harder is better, but softer, solid wood is useful too.
I'm sure @begreen will be back soon to assess how you might do with various stove on that 8x8" clay liner with a direct-connect. But it might be safer (draft-wise and creo-wise) to go with a full stainless liner to the top.

 

[Preacherman]

Ahhh, more money to spend. We can certainly help you in that regard! You can always take it with you if you end up moving. If you're serious about heating with wood, spend the money now to get a stove you will be happy with for a long while. Problem is, they keep coming out with new stuff and I start looking at the greener grass on the other side.
Woo-hoo! You've got it made! Go out there and look for anything small and dead, standing or down, with the bark off. [<8"] Take a hatchet with you and chop into 'em to see if they are solid wood. This will also tell you how good the wood might be...harder is better, but softer, solid wood is useful too.
I'm sure @begreen will be back soon to assess how you might do with various stove on that 8x8" clay liner with a direct-connect. But it might be safer (draft-wise and creo-wise) to go with a full stainless liner to the top.

Lol..."greener grass"...i know what you mean...i modded the Buck insert with secondaries for that exact reason. Trying to get the biggest baddest machine i could. I added extra fans too hoping to get every last ounce of heat. Wife says it looks like a robot instead of a wood stove...lol!
I had considered a stainless liner but only if absolutely needed...those things are higher than the price of the stove! The Buck with a baffle (less than an inch gap at the front for the smoke to exit) and secondaries seems to do fine with the draft. About the only time you need worry about smoke is when you open the doors to add wood...and even then if you open them slowy theres little issue. I guess i could get the new stove installed and then add the stainless liner later if need be.
I even considered getting something like an old "Fisher" style stove and modding that with baffle, burn tubes and glass door so as to save money. I have access to the steal, stainless and welder plus the fab skills to make it all happen. My concern would be the glass door...about the only way i might attemp that would be to get a door from another stove and then make it fit the "fisher" style modded monster. Who knows...but atleast i have a few months to decide what to do!

 

[Woody Stover]

I had considered a stainless liner but only if absolutely needed...those things are higher than the price of the stove!

Yep. Even a semi-cheap .006" liner kit would run about $300. Then you have to insulate it unless the masonry chimney meets clearance to combustible code, which it probably does not. So the insulation might be another $300.

The Buck with a baffle (less than an inch gap at the front for the smoke to exit) and secondaries seems to do fine with the draft.

15' isn't real tall. Once you get the inside diameter measurements of the tile liner, you can calculate the actual area. If it's three times as much as a 6" flue, it would be iffy (most stoves are 6".) If it's two times, you might get away with it, especially if it's an interior chimney. It will be harder to run than with a liner, when it's warmer outside. Some stoves are know to breathe easier than others. There are also floor protection requirements to consider. Some stoves need R-value, some only require ember protection.

I even considered getting something like an old "Fisher" style stove and modding that with baffle, burn tubes and glass door so as to save money. I have access to the steal, stainless and welder plus the fab skills to make it all happen. My concern would be the glass door

Sounds like you have some serious fabbing chops. I think you could order the ceramic glass....Pyroceram or the like. Me, I'd go with a manufactured stove since it's engineered to do the job efficiently. You could also get a stove with an optional blower, ash handling system, etc. and it will more than likely use less wood. The Buck 91 had a decent ash pan system, with a large 3.5x5.5" opening with a flip-up lid. You may not need a blower, but a quiet one can be an asset to help set up a convection loop from the stove room to the rest of the house. If the stove is central to an open layout you may be able to get away without a blower. The Buck wasn't too noisy....on low.

 

[Preacherman]

Decided to make a run to Lowes and Tractor Supply tonight to get a look at a few locally available stoves...wouldn't you know, they have taken out all their displays for spring! Nothing...i mean not one stove in the store..lol! Oh well, i guess i'll just keep looking and see what i can find in some semi-local hearth type stores. I'm really leaning toward the possibilty of converting an old fisher style stove to secondaries. I could fab a steal door and order glass to fit but am afraid that the steel would warp in time. Any thoughts on that?? I did build a barrel stove for my shop and made a steel frame door out of 2' box tubing which hasn't warped yet but i probably don't burn that stove as hot as i would an inside stove either.

 

[Sagitta]

Decided to make a run to Lowes and Tractor Supply tonight to get a look at a few locally available stoves...wouldn't you know, they have taken out all their displays for spring! Nothing...i mean not one stove in the store..lol! Oh well, i guess i'll just keep looking and see what i can find in some semi-local hearth type stores. I'm really leaning toward the possibilty of converting an old fisher style stove to secondaries. I could fab a steal door and order glass to fit but am afraid that the steel would warp in time. Any thoughts on that?? I did build a barrel stove for my shop and made a steel frame door out of 2' box tubing which hasn't warped yet but i probably don't burn that stove as hot as i would an inside stove either.

FWIW, Lowes is having a sale. We just picked up a rebranded Madison for $600. They have the rebranded Englander 30 for a bit over $700.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-2-400-sq-ft-Wood-Stove/999918850