Which stove and where?

[rdsherman]

I live in southern Ohio in an old farmhouse. Currently I have electric baseboards. These are not keeping the house warm and the electric bill is crazy. I am considering adding a stove for both comfort as well as saving on the electric bill. I would love it to provide the bulk of the heat.

The house is two floors, each 1200 sf. The house is poorly insulated and drafty, with ten foot ceilings. I am trying to tighten up the house but there is only so much I can do.

First, where would you put the stove. Choice one is where we spend most of our time, but my wife doesn't really want a stove in the living room. Will choice two distribute enough heat? I will probably put in some kind of vents or registers to help get heat to the upstairs. Both levels have the exact floor plan.

Finally, I prefer something simple. I am impressed by the Blaze King's but am worried it will take too much attention. My wife wants something pretty with a nice window. Thanks

 

[Ashful]

Welcome aboard! Fellow old farmhouse owner here and a recent Blaze King convert (from two Jotuls).

First, on the house, what is your wall construction? If uninsulated stone, then your choices are limited to convective stoves, as radiant heating of uninsulated stonework is flat out impossible.

Draft is the big enemy in old houses. Again, construction? Window and door seals are key, assuming you want to keep/protect the originals. An old window with a storm window will radiate less than any modern double-pane window, due to the massive air space, but draft undoes all of their advantage.

Stove location, the advice repeated a thousand times thru this forum is to put it in the room where you spend the most time. First, that will be the warmest room. Second, you'll find the family always wants to gather around the stove. Third, it's nice to look at the fire!

Blaze King stoves require far less attention than any other stove I have seen, which was one of the primary reasons I switched from dual Jotuls to dual BK Ashford 30's. No other stove can give you 30 - 40 hours of true burn time, without any fiddling with the stove at all.

 

[fox9988]

Option 1 will give you more even heating and a nice fire show that is better than a TV. Option 2 with a small fan in the floor, in one of the doorways, would create a convection loop and work. If you don't want a BK, check out Woodstock, the Progress or the Ideal Steel. Neither are a simple stove, both are very easy to operate and very efficient. Insulate what you can. How well is the attic insulated? Its usually the best/easiest bang for your buck.

 

[Grisu]

The room you usually spend the most time in would be preferable but I guess the dining room will also do if necessary. Are there already existing fireplaces? Dimensions and pics would be helpful. What budget do you have in mind? Any idea what style your wife thinks is "pretty"?

How many kWh are you going through in a winter month (like January)? I cannot imagine someone heating an old, drafty farmhouse with electric baseboards without going broke. Maybe your insulation is not as bad as you think.Something large with a 3 cu ft firebox should cover most of your heating needs.

No matter which stove you choose: You will need dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. Do you already have several cords of split firewood sitting in your yard to dry? If not, you will be in a tough spot for the coming winter. I would get the wood going first before even looking for a stove.

 

[begreen]

Is there a fireplace in location 1? That clearly looks like the best for heating the largest area. If you agree this may take some convincing. Post a picture of that location and let's visualize what a good looking stove would look like there.

 

[Woody Stover]

I prefer something simple. I am impressed by the Blaze King's but am worried it will take too much attention.

True, the cat stoves may not be quite as simple to operate but they burn longest so it's less work in the long run. The only "attention" they need is getting up to temp and cutting the air after a reload, and that will be the case with a non-cat, too. It may take a little less time to cruise a non-cat but like I said, you'll be reloading sooner. You may be better off with a more convective stove such as the jacketed BK Ashford, or an insert if those are fireplaces, depending how drafty the house still is after you seal it up. Blower noise is the only problem I would have with a stove in the living room. Some are more quiet than others, not sure about the BKs.

my wife doesn't really want a stove in the living room.

Maybe not now but once she basks in the heat for a while, she will 'warm up to the idea.'

 

[JA600L]

It sounds like your baseboard heaters can't get the job done, so that means whatever stove you put in there is going to have to work it's tail off.

The advantage of a Blaze King is running it low and slow. Something tells me your situation won't allow that. Whatever you get make sure it's big and can hold a lot of wood.

What is your budget for a stove, chimney, and hearth?

 

[rdsherman]

Thanks for the quick replys. The house is all brick, the outside walls are three wyth with an air gap between the second and third course, the interior walls are two wyth. All are covered with plaster. I've installed storms and am in the process of more caulking. I put insulation in the attic. All the rooms have fireplaces, although location two had the chimney taken down below the roofline a couple of years ago. For what it's worth, there is also a lower level that I'd love to put the stove in, but I' afraid the heat wouldn't circulate well since it has a concrete floor. (Same floor plan as other levels, but with 71/2' ceilings). Is that true? Here are pics of the two fireplaces

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for the pics; which is the one in the living room? At first look the fireplaces don't seem to be suitable for an insert but putting a stove in front may work, especially with the first one. How high are they measured from the hearth and how deep is the hearth? What are the mantels made of? The first one does not look like it is wood. If location 1 still has a full chimney that you just need to drop a liner down there that will be much easier and save you several hundred.

I would skip the idea of a basement stove. Putting a stove on concrete and trying to heat 3600 sqft will be next to impossible. For that location you will need a wood furnace or boiler. Later you may add another stove there but to solely heat that floor.

 

[begreen]

Maybe a Woodstock Progress Hybrid in front of the living room fireplace?

 

[rdsherman]

All the fireplaces were coal burning originally but two were converted to wood. The first pic is the living room. We want a freestanding stove. I'll check out the suggestions. The Jotul also caught my eye. I'm having a tough time deciding if a cat is for me. Any other cat stoves other than Blaze King? Thank you for all the help. Edit to add I checked out Woodstock Progress Hybrid. I really like it. As I start more research, anything I should keep in mind?

 

[Grisu]

All the fireplaces were coal burning originally but two were converted to wood. The first pic is the living room. We want a freestanding stove. I'll check out the suggestions. The Jotul also caught my eye. I'm having a tough time deciding if a cat is for me. Any other cat stoves other than Blaze King? Thank you for all the help. Edit to add I checked out Woodstock Progress Hybrid. I really like it. As I start more research, anything I should keep in mind?

Since your fireplaces do not look that large to accommodate a top-venting stove you will need a rear-venting one. BlazeKing does not offer one but the already mentioned Woodstock Progress Hybrid or the Ideal Steel would work. In non-cat the other large options are: Jotul F600 and F55, Hearthstone Manchester, Quadrafire Explorer 3 (new model, just came out) and Isle Royale (has been phased out but some dealers may still have one).

What you should do first is to measure the height of the fireplace opening. That will determine which stove fits; look for the height of the flue outlet. The Progress Hybrid with the short leg kit has the lowest requirement at 26"; the others go from there. That requirement may already reduce your choices. Then look at clearances, hearth requirement etc. to decide which models would work.

What are the inside dimensions of your chimney? Would an insulated liner fit in there?

 

[Ashful]

All the fireplaces were coal burning originally but two were converted to wood. The first pic is the living room. We want a freestanding stove. I'll check out the suggestions. The Jotul also caught my eye. I'm having a tough time deciding if a cat is for me. Any other cat stoves other than Blaze King? Thank you for all the help. Edit to add I checked out Woodstock Progress Hybrid. I really like it. As I start more research, anything I should keep in mind?

Jotul and VC make most of the best looking stoves on the market, and while VC has had enormous problems with design, quality, and customer support, Jotul makes some excellent stoves. Their quality is top notch, but being non-cat, their burn times are much shorter than a cat stove... by at least half.

There are many cat stoves on the market. Trouble is, most of them are as ugly as a black washing machine in your living room. To match your old house, your only real cat options are the Ashfords from BK, or maybe the lil' Fireview from Woodstock. To use a BK, you'd have to install a thimble above your mantel, which is actually very common in old houses. Each one of my fireplaces has a thimble above the mantel, as was common in the late-1700's, when cast iron stoves were replacing fireplaces.

 

[Huntindog1]

Being Drafty is your enemy as a stove cycles and during its ramp down in the heat cycle usually the wee hours of the morning the heat that was built up in the house during the high output stage , well that heat will be over come by the cold draft of the house.

So I would say a CAT stove that has the heat spread out over a longer period of time and a stove that is larger than you think you need.

My choice would be the Ideal steel by the Wood Stock Stove Company. Its a good size and is one of if not the most efficient wood stoves out there and its a CAT stove. You will be able to turn it down so it wont run you out of the house and it will produce heat over a longer period of time so that the drafty house wont be as much of a factor. Even tho its a pretty good size stove the extra ability to control heat output will not run you out of the room its in.

Lastly having an upstairs in a house thats drafty will be an extra challenge for you. But being its a small house and with an Ideal Steel you can keep heat going 24/7 easily as those stoves get 14 hour burn times easy and some people get even more than that with "Good Dry Seasoned Hard Woods".

 

[tarzan]

Short of a two stove setup I believe you should give the Woodstock Progress Hybrid a look. Your gonna need serious heat output and want overnight burns. This one should get you close plus it is a beutiful soapstone stove that may just award you "living room approval" from the wife.

 

[JA600L]

It sounds like you are heading in the direction of Woodstock.

The progress hybrid looks better, it's more expensive, and has a higher heat output. The soapstone gives you heat after the fire goes out.

The ideal steel has a bigger firebox, longer burn times with better low end control, and is steel so it heats up fast. You can get this stove for under $2000. All the options ends up more around $ 2200-2300.

 

[rdsherman]

The wife approves of the progress hybrid. I'm on the road but when I return I'll check clearances and the chimney. Also, There are grates in the floors of all the upstairs rooms, will this help with heat circulation? Also, could I add a blower? Either way, we will be much more comfortable this winter than last.

 

[JA600L]

Woodstock stoves do not take blowers. Using fans to move cold floor air towards the stove room usually works the best. Sometimes the best location is the staircase with the fan on the floor.

Put strips of toilet paper at the top of doorways to see if the heat is distributing throughout the house correctly. If it is not use a floor fan to exit the cold air from the room so it can be replaced by the warm air.

 

[tarzan]

The grates will definately help the upstairs rooms since heat rises. Fans would likely help distribute heat also.

 

[Woody Stover]

My MIL's house has high ceilings, and they inhibit the movement of warm air. I thought of cutting some transom vents and covering them with nice-looking grates...

 

[Ashful]

Huntingdog1 makes a great point in post 14, but to add to what he's saying, an uninsulated stone house will have the same trouble even without being drafty. My house is actually sealed up reasonably tight, or as much as can be with original 1770's windows and doors, but still does not maintain heat at all in the waning part of the burn. The trouble is my exterior stone walls stay at 52F all day, every day, during the heating season. So, if I'm not forcibly heating the air within, the interior temp heads back toward 52F real fast. I used to blame draftiness, before I really understood what was happening.

 

[rdsherman]

Ashfull, can you explain a little further? I was hoping the clay brick walls covered with lime plaster might hold heat and then radiate. Is that not the case? Thanks.

 

[Ashful]

Lime plaster on masonry walls act as a huge capacitor, essentially maintaining the average of indoor and outdoor temps to which they're exposed. So, if indoors is 70F (294K) and your outdoors averages 30F (272K), at a given time of year, your walls will hang around 283K = 50F for that period.

This isn't exact, as the portion of wall buried below grade and solar radiant heating must be factored in, but you get the idea. Stone has fairly low R-value, so treating it as an infinite thermal well is appropriate.