which stove style is more efficient, pedestal style or ash pan underneath?

[snbcenadeau]

Hey all, question for the veteran wood burners out there...grew up heating our house with a Vermont made Home Heater coal stove that my dad only burned wood in. Had ash pan underneath which we opened to get the fire going. Looking for a wood stove for my new house build now, trying to heat 2000 sq ft with it from the basement (gonna put a metal shroud around the stove and connect it to ductwork to all the first floor rooms). I have been looking at the DS Heatright 120 (coal and wood stove of the same style as the old Home Heater) and the Drolet HT3000, which is a pedestal style stove with no ash pan underneath. My dad doesn't like that style of stove, says it's not as good as having the airflow from underneath.

Any experience and suggestions from the gallery? All the new stoves seem to be more pedestal styles, with no ash pans underneath. Does this really make a difference in the performance of the stove?

Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Neither. Pedestal stoves can have ashpans too. This is not what makes a difference in efficiency. Coal/Wood stoves are quite inefficient and not comparable to the HT3000.

Stoves cannot have a metal shroud around them to connect to ductwork. That is against the stove manufacturer's requirements and against the mechanical code. This can be done with a wood furnace. Take a look at furnaces made by Drolet and Kuuma.

 

[snbcenadeau]

Neither. Pedestal stoves can have ashpans too. This is not what makes a difference in efficiency. Coal/Wood stoves are quite inefficient and not comparable to the HT3000.

Stoves cannot have a metal shroud around them to connect to ductwork. That is against the stove manufacturer's requirements and against the mechanical code. This can be done with a wood furnace. Take a look at furnaces made by Drolet and Kuuma.

Thanks for the information, I will look into it.

 

[snbcenadeau]

Thanks for the information, I will look into it.

The situation that I am faced with is that I want to be electricity independent for my heat mostly, so I don't want to go the wood furnace route. This wood stove is going in my basement with two full floors above it. Can I put a Drolet HT 3000 in the basement and expect to get heat to travel well through the house with only grates in the first floor at strategic locations? Or would I be better off going with a furnace style like the DS Energymax 110?

 

[begreen]

That depends on many factors. It could be possible depending on the basement and house insulation, stove location, stairwell location, floor plan, etc. Another issue might be negative pressure in the basement. Will there be a radon fan in the basement? Will this be a daylight basement where a fresh air supply can come in at floor level?

FWIW, the best place to heat the 1st and 2nd stories of a house is often with a stove on the main floor.
Can you post some sketches of the flooplans?

The DS Energymax 110 is strictly a coal stove. The HT3000 is a wood stove. Neither can be ducted for heat.

 

[stoveliker]

You need to create an air circuit if you go the basement route.
A place for warm air to go up (e.g. stairs), and a place for colder air to sink down.
Look up gravity vents: 2x2 ft holes (with grates on top) in the floor with a 3 ft "chase" downwards into the basement. This chase (square plywood pipe) will prevent the warm air near the ceiling of the basement to go up there, and allows the colder air from the 1st floor to sink down. This will collect on the basement floor and push the warmer air near the ceiling up the other place (stairs).
Those vents are then best placed near a few walls (b/c that's where the coldest air is on the first floor). E.g. central stairs heat up, vents near the outside walls for cold air down.

Do not aim to have only multiple places for warm air to go up ("a few vents for air to rise") - that'll mostly result in turbulence as warm air has to go up and cold come down thru the same hole. That turbulence mixes them, resulting in less BTUs moving upstairs. You really need to create an air circuit/loop.

Be aware of fire code: you may need a fire damper (automatically closes when it gets too hot) when you create a hole in a firebarrier (and a wooden floor is a fire barrier).
This may or may not be needed if there are no doors between the basement and the first floor that can close. Your local fire department and/or building code office should be able to advise.

I did make a fan: register in the first floor, metal boot, metal duct thru the joist space to the wall of the basement. Metal elbow there, then a metal fire damper. Then flexible duct down to the basement floor with an inline fan (mounted on the concrete slab, not to any of the studs, so no vibrations travel up to the main floor), and a register. The fan sucks cold air from my first floor and deposits it on the basement floor.
It runs on 26 W - and that's enough to heat my home.

At power outages, I run an extension cord to the fan (from a 2.5 kW portable generator also used to keep the fridge cold, etc.)

 

[snbcenadeau]

Thanks all for the replies. I'll take them one at a time...

Begreen, I've already got the chimney into the cellar, so that's set. Metal chimney, drafts like a rocket engine. Stove is on one side of the house, with two stacked central stairs. Super airtight house, put caulking on all double studs and where walls meet floor and ceiling. Have had to crack windows already to get good draft in the temporary wood stove I have there now. It's a daylight basement, so getting fresh air will not be a problem. No radon fans. The Energymax is advertised as both wood and coal, I will use it with wood if I get it. My dad put passive ductwork (no fans to force hot air up the ducts) around his wood stove forty seven years ago, works great. But it's not a parlor stove style. Just a big iron box.

Stoveliker, I've seen the cold air chases boxed out for good air flow, and I like the idea. I think that might be an option. It just makes more sense to me to have airflow to the stove coming from under the fire (coal stove style) rather than from above the fire (parlor style). Still trying to decide what style stove to buy and how to rig it.

 

[stoveliker]

If you want efficient heat (i.e. less wood per BTU) over fire air is the way to go, not coal-like under fire air.

 

[begreen]

Have had to crack windows already to get good draft in the temporary wood stove I have there now.

The stove will need an outside air supply. This must stay below the stove's firebox level.

Is all of the insulation now in? What stove is in there now and how is it heating the place?

What dad did is no longer permitted. What stoveliker did is legal, it is supplying convection air.

 

[begreen]

The Energymax is advertised as both wood and coal,

If you go to their website it is listed as exclusively for coal. It will not be an efficient woodburner.

 

[snbcenadeau]

Begreen,

Thanks for clearing up some things there.

I continue to wrestle with which stove to buy. Currently the 2x6 walls are insulated with Rockwool Batts with 5mil vapor barrier over it and the sheetrock is up. Attic is not insulated yet, priced out blown in cellulose yesterday. That's next on the agenda.

The stove in there snow is a homemade double barrel stove, very ghetto, only to take the chill out of the house. Cellar is warm, first floor is cool, second floor is not very warm at all. But I don't have any air flow system set up yet, no cold air returns, just the central stairwells. Putting the cold air chases on the first floor will be easy, should I also put them in the second floor?

About the external air supply...

I read an article that said the concept has not been backed up by good research results. I will post a link to the article, let me know what you think.

 

[snbcenadeau]

Between,

Here's the article:

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

www.woodheat.org

 

[stoveliker]

If you need to open a window to get the stove going, there is not enough air reaching the stove with the window closed. An outside air supply helps with that without having cold outside air leaking into the house.

Before you blow insulation in the attic, seal the ceiling penetrations and top boards of internal and external walls with foam (and silicone for electrical penetrations). Insulation does not prevent warm air from rising up. Internal walls often have gaps between drywall and the top board, allowing warm air from inside that wall to rise up into the attic. This is your home acting just like a chimney - and will compete with the draft of your chimney.

Lots of YouTube videos about air sealing (the floor) in the attic.

 

[bholler]

Between,

Here's the article:

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

www.woodheat.org

There is absolutely no downside to providing outside air to the stove as long as it is done properly. And yes there has been lots of testing to support this. I have read that article several times and honestly it is nonsense.

 

[begreen]

Between,

Here's the article:

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

www.woodheat.org

Yes, John Gulland has some reservations about this. That has influenced some Canadian stove makers. I can not recall any issues reported in the past 17 yrs here with a properly installed OAK other than cold air seepage for a few. There are countering points of view that disagree.

Sweep's Library - Why burn outside air?

Should I burn outside combustion air in my stove or fireplace?

hearth.com

Are the basement walls as well insulated as the 2x6 upstairs?

 

[snbcenadeau]

Not at the moment, but they will be.

 

[snbcenadeau]

I've also heard from a chimney sweep and stove salesman I trust that the outside air is a good thing in a tight house

 

[begreen]

Not at the moment, but they will be.

That will make a substantial improvement. About a third of the heat from the stove is being lost through the basement walls.

 

[cahaak]

Purchase a modern epa rated stove with a large firebox, install an OAK, and you'll be just fine. You've espoused a lot of thinking that isn't correct and you're getting good responses from experts.

 

[snbcenadeau]

Thanks everybody, much appreciated

 

[snbcenadeau]

All right everybody, I think I'm leaning towards getting an Ashley Hearth AW3200E-P, US Stove product, almost a 3.9 cu. ft. Firebox, EPA certified, "rated" for 152,000 BTU output (I'll believe it when I see it), can get it with a 100 CFM blower from L&M Fleet supply for $1300 delivered. Most bang for the buck that I can find. Anyone have advice or experience with this stove?

 

[bholler]

All right everybody, I think I'm leaning towards getting an Ashley Hearth AW3200E-P, US Stove product, almost a 3.9 cu. ft. Firebox, EPA certified, "rated" for 152,000 BTU output (I'll believe it when I see it), can get it with a 100 CFM blower from L&M Fleet supply for $1300 delivered. Most bang for the buck that I can find. Anyone have advice or experience with this stove?

US stove company products would just about be my last choice

 

[snbcenadeau]

Bholler, what is your reason for this? Have you had bad experiences with their stoves in the past? Please explain, thanks.

 

[bholler]

Bholler, what is your reason for this? Have you had bad experiences with their stoves in the past? Please explain, thanks.

The company sells cheap low quality Asian import stoves

 

[Highbeam]

Please choose the largest drolet or even Englander before usstove if money is an issue.